So, after hours and hours of pushing both scroll bearers went fishing [no-CP things]

divnyi

Why there is no mechanic to retake control of the scroll from player by players of an allied faction? Like, vote for player to be new host, that is held between allied players in the area?

It is obviously an issue, I rarely play cyro, and when I do and it gets to the scrolls, this stuff happens like 50% of the time. And I probably not gonna step my foot into this mode again for a long time, even if I like PvP.

Kwoung

divnyi wrote: »

Why there is no mechanic to retake control of the scroll from player by players of an allied faction? Like, vote for player to be new host, that is held between allied players in the area?

It is obviously an issue, I rarely play cyro, and when I do and it gets to the scrolls, this stuff happens like 50% of the time. And I probably not gonna step my foot into this mode again for a long time, even if I like PvP.

Historically the same happens on Blackreach, scroll trolls grab it, run it around until their preferred faction takes the keep back, then goes for a swim to put the scroll back where it came from. So lame.

CooloutAC

they should lock all campaigns imo.

Tommy_The_Gun

Well, technically it is umm, "an Exploit". I mean I doubt this is intended. And using game mechanics in an unintended and kinda devious & malicious way is an exploit...

CooloutAC wrote: »

they should lock all campaigns imo.

Unfortunately it does not work... People just figured out that they can buy another copy of the game (especially when it is on sale). Any Cyrodiil is base game....

It happens too often, even on locked campaign. I witnessed it several (if not countless) times on Gray Host PC EU.

divnyi

I mean sure, faction locks and all, but there should be a mechanism to get the scroll from player of your faction in some way. It is just dumb how 30 players can only stand and look while those players make jokes on them.

It is not realistic, as in group of people will just execute the traitors on spot. Cyro needs new mechanics to avoid such exploits.

Grimlok_S

CooloutAC wrote: »

they should lock all campaigns imo.

And what exactly would that accomplish?

In Blackreach for example the population bars are regularly 3 AD to 1 bar EP and DC.

I play on the lower two, whichever has low pop bonus.


When I get tired of getting coldfire countersieged trying to retake my own trikeeps, I'll take the 20 minutes to cross the map and attempt a scroll run. It's a rare and nice change of pace to see what comes chasing after it when you're regularly gated by an emp group with hammer and supports.

Taking it home is a waste of time, as above mentioned Emp/Hammer & co already own 90% of the map. If they want it back, they'll get it.

If anything, my meandering scroll shenanigans offer the low pop faction a chance to get a trikeep back if emp and co decide to chase me instead.

If you care about faction score, we are not playing the same game.

CooloutAC

Grimlok_S wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

they should lock all campaigns imo.

And what exactly would that accomplish?

In Blackreach for example the population bars are regularly 3 AD to 1 bar EP and DC.

I play on the lower two, whichever has low pop bonus.


When I get tired of getting coldfire countersieged trying to retake my own trikeeps, I'll take the 20 minutes to cross the map and attempt a scroll run. It's a rare and nice change of pace to see what comes chasing after it when you're regularly gated by an emp group with hammer and supports.

Taking it home is a waste of time, as above mentioned Emp/Hammer & co already own 90% of the map. If they want it back, they'll get it.

If anything, my meandering scroll shenanigans offer the low pop faction a chance to get a trikeep back if emp and co decide to chase me instead.

If you care about faction score, we are not playing the same game.

The guilds in grayhost literally refuse to play those other campaigns for the reason the OP has stated. It happens way less in grayhost simply because the campaign is locked. If you have good intentions thats one thing, but purposely sabotaging the team for another faction, is another thing.

I use to always play low pop bonus too. Then I realize people would get upset at that so now I just home a campaign for each of my 3 toons i made on a diff faction. The problem is, human nature is rotten, and if we don't have safeguards people tend to abuse and exploit the game rather then try to make things more fair. I mean you just said it yourself. Last week i was in total shock to see ad actually pop locked and the other two factions with only one bar and probably not even that. AD had the entire map and every single keep and it was peak hours at prime time. Totally disgusting imo. SO what I did was decided to not play ad there anymore and home campaigned my DC guy for this go around.

divnyi

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Taking it home is a waste of time, as above mentioned Emp/Hammer & co already own 90% of the map. If they want it back, they'll get it.

If anything, my meandering scroll shenanigans offer the low pop faction a chance to get a trikeep back if emp and co decide to chase me instead.

In my eyes, this behaviour deserves a ban.

CooloutAC

divnyi wrote: »

I mean sure, faction locks and all, but there should be a mechanism to get the scroll from player of your faction in some way. It is just dumb how 30 players can only stand and look while those players make jokes on them.

It is not realistic, as in group of people will just execute the traitors on spot. Cyro needs new mechanics to avoid such exploits.

but what you are suggesting could also be exploited. I mean lets face it, trolls have taken over this game and think they run things. And outsider would never be able to take the scroll again, its already run by the same people usually and they get upset if someone else tries to run it.. I literally saw someone bullied off the scroll the other day and it angered me to no end. Some people feel entitled to run the scroll and certain guilds have taken over the game. You would just be giving them a away to abuse other players even more and I would hate to see that happen. I'd probably quit altogether which i'm pretty much on the verge of doing as it is.

hafgood

Not sure what the problem is? Someone got the scrolls and then didn't run them hoke and ultimately went into the fish with them?

And?

Not being intentionally provocative just wondering what the issue is? That players of yoir alliance did it? Yeah it sucks but it isn't against the rules of the game. Next time make sure you get one of the scrolls.

And yes I do play the game for the faction win and I am in a PvP guild and I run scrolls a lot.

People forget that Cyro is a war zone. Yeah the tactics are not ones you want to see but they are not an exploit or against the terms of service.

Sorry but nothing needs doing and certainly no vote to take the scroll off someone. You want the scroll? You grab the scroll when it's free

divnyi

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but nothing needs doing and certainly no vote to take the scroll off someone. You want the scroll? You grab the scroll when it's free

The scrolls are supposed to be the end goal of whole attack campaign. Your faction fights for them.

Taking scroll and trolling definitely is an exploit. It exploits the fact that you can't kill a player of your own faction, even if he is an open traitor. Thus, you can't take the control of the scroll, even if you won the fight for it vs the faction.

Things like this would be impossible, say, in Lineage 2, where you could attack any player, despite having guilds and alliances. I understand that attacking allied players would spiral out of control here. But doing a majority vote from all the faction players in the area to change the ownership of the scroll is fair in my eyes - if someone convinces everybody around the scroll that he is worthy of running it - it is a fair game. Can include some 2 minutes of swapping animation so it won't be the best move to do.

Grimlok_S

divnyi wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Sorry but nothing needs doing and certainly no vote to take the scroll off someone. You want the scroll? You grab the scroll when it's free

The scrolls are supposed to be the end goal of whole attack campaign. Your faction fights for them.

Taking scroll and trolling definitely is an exploit. It exploits the fact that you can't kill a player of your own faction, even if he is an open traitor. Thus, you can't take the control of the scroll, even if you won the fight for it vs the faction.

Things like this would be impossible, say, in Lineage 2, where you could attack any player, despite having guilds and alliances. I understand that attacking allied players would spiral out of control here. But doing a majority vote from all the faction players in the area to change the ownership of the scroll is fair in my eyes - if someone convinces everybody around the scroll that he is worthy of running it - it is a fair game. Can include some 2 minutes of swapping animation so it won't be the best move to do.

My "faction" in this example is a number less than 10 people unable to reclaim trikeeps from the AD happily counter sieging and farming D-Ticks while being more than double the other two factions combined.

You're suggesting that if I take the time to run from DC or EP southern spawn to bloodmayne, siege the keep, and take the scroll now I owe it to you? There are 3 other scrolls down there up for grabs. You are more than welcome to get your own.

Best case, AD (or whichever faction is outnumbering, it doesn't really matter) take chase and I get some fights outside their guarded keeps and siege. Side benefit if my faction makes some ground on the map while I have their attention.

Worst case, they ignore me and I get a scroll for free. This is rarely the case.

It's pretty apparent we play on different campaigns, with different experiences and goals. And that's OK.

divnyi

Grimlok_S wrote: »

You're suggesting that if I take the time to run from DC or EP southern spawn to bloodmayne, siege the keep, and take the scroll now I owe it to you?

What? No, imagine the following: you have AD dominance so you log in as AD, and during their attack on your scroll you pick it, move towards AD home keeps, and then mid-way you stop and run god knows which direction. Say, to the water. Just because you can.

During the time AD group defends the scroll your faction takes home keeps back. You jump to water with the scroll if other faction intervenes, so scroll resets.

hafgood

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life. Next time get the scroll yourself.

We are not responsible for the actions of others even where we may disagree with them. It is the scroll bearers choice as to what they do with the scroll. If they choose to feed it to the fishes then so be it. When it resets take it back and make sure you get on the scroll.

So no, to voting the scroll off someone. What happens if a ball group has it and decides to farm it in one of the towers dotted around the game. Can all others in the area then vote to remove the scroll from the ball group because they out number them and want the scroll back in a temple? Is that acceptable? Or if someone is going what you consider the wrong route? Can you vote it off them then?

Its a hard no from me. And there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise even though I agree it is frustrating when there is a scroll troll about.

divnyi

hafgood wrote: »

What happens if a ball group has it and decides to farm it in one of the towers dotted around the game. Can all others in the area then vote to remove the scroll from the ball group because they out number them and want the scroll back in a temple? Is that acceptable?

Don't see what's wrong with that. If so many players of the same faction gather around to win the vote, then yes.

hafgood wrote: »

Or if someone is going what you consider the wrong route? Can you vote it off them then?

You can, it will cost you more than the profits you gain from that, in case swapping relic will render receiving player inert for 2 minutes. You risk any chasing party to catch up with you while you stand still.

hafgood wrote: »

We are not responsible for the actions of others even where we may disagree with them. It is the scroll bearers choice as to what they do with the scroll. If they choose to feed it to the fishes then so be it.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Nyteshade

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

CooloutAC

Nyteshade wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

well said.

Kwoung

Nyteshade wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

It is well within the players ability to deal with scroll trolls and their sort in Cyro. I am not condoning their behavior, as I actually feel they are lower than a worms belly, but it isn't against the rules. When I played Blackreach, where this was pretty much a daily issue, we knew who all the trolls were by name. if one grabbed a scroll, well we knew it was taking a swim or hitting the lava, so we just followed (not protected) them, let the other factions kill them and if possible, grab the scroll back.

Mostly though, just ignore them and ruin their fun. They seem to think they are "all that" and getting one over on you, when they realize you could care less, it kills their fun and you win.

Grimlok_S

double post

Grimlok_S

Nyteshade wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

Without faction locks in place you can always change teams and kill the "scroll troll" [/quote]

Ackwalan

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Nyteshade wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

Without faction locks in place you can always change teams and kill the "scroll troll"

[/quote]

Without faction locks in place you can always change teams and be the "scroll troll".

Kwoung

Ackwalan wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Nyteshade wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Yup, still don't see the issue, no rules are being broken, no one is exploiting anything. Yes it's annoying when it happens but such is life.

Let me help, since it's been explained over and over and you're still not seeing the issue.

Your argument is that you, personally, need hard, fast rules to dictate your behavior. You said it a few times. No rules being broken, no problem. And by extension, that should apply to everyone else's experience.

Here is an illustration. There might not be any rules in the NBA, for instance, to stop a player from turning around and shooting the ball in the wrong hoop all the time, scoring for the other team.

But rules about that or no, we can all understand that it's not within the spirit of the game. And you'll quickly lose support and trust of your team. And probably lose your job pretty quickly too.

So being a scroll troll, while not violating TOS, is pretty much not within the spirit of the game. I think the majority would understand and agree with that.

Now we can't bench or fire players here. This has been an issue since early on and folks are simply asking ZOS to do something about it. And if it satisfies you, I'm sure it could be included in the rule book.

Without faction locks in place you can always change teams and kill the "scroll troll"

Without faction locks in place you can always change teams and be the "scroll troll".

Which is 1000% more likely, as the player upset by scroll trolls is probably attached to their faction and has no desire to play the other side. Many of us actually only play one faction, which is the case with almost everyone I know, the few who play more than one, are usually just earning tier 1 for the transmutes on them and could care less about what's going on on the map other than being able to grab a tick.