Please make solo queue the default battleground mode

Firstmep

This has been an issue since the split to premade and solo queue happened, but even now, so many unsuspecting solo players queue into the premade mode, as there is no indication that its for premades.
Its not unusual for me to queue up with friends just to have lets say another premade grp and then a team with maybe a duo, but likely 4 solo players thrown into with us.

The queues were separated for a reason, im not even playing some of the most meta builds and setups, and its still so easy to squash solos its not even funny.

And some of the sweatier groups will absolutely destroy not well coordinated bg teams.

I didnt find fighting aganist solos with premades fun, and i didnt find it fun to fight as solo vs premades before.

Im not suggesting that solos should not be allowed into the preamde queue, but making it more clear which game mode people join would be very welcome.

And making solo the default queue also makes sense, if you are in a grp, even as a duo, you likely already know to queue for premades(and you can only queue there anyway), and this would alliviate a lot of issues with people queueing into the wrong mode.

buzzclops

It’s literally written “solo battlegrounds” theres always ppl that dont read anything but thats on them tbh

Firstmep

buzzclops wrote: »

It’s literally written “solo battlegrounds” theres always ppl that dont read anything but thats on them tbh

When you open the group finder, the default mode set is Random Battlegroud, which is the preamde queue.

If you dont click the dropdown menu, and dont know about the 2 different queues, then you wont even know that you are queueing into a gamemode where 4 premades with full meta setup can and will mow you down.

I dont think making solo the default on the screen, and premade as the selectable from the dropdown would have any negative effect on premade queues, only positive.

MurderMostFoul

Firstmep wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

It’s literally written “solo battlegrounds” theres always ppl that dont read anything but thats on them tbh

When you open the group finder, the default mode set is Random Battlegroud, which is the preamde queue.

If you dont click the dropdown menu, and dont know about the 2 different queues, then you wont even know that you are queueing into a gamemode where 4 premades with full meta setup can and will mow you down.

I dont think making solo the default on the screen, and premade as the selectable from the dropdown would have any negative effect on premade queues, only positive.

Solo queue BGs being hidden from view in the default PC UI until using a drop-down does sound like a problem. We don't have that issue on console, and I'm assuming gamepad mode on PC too, but the option should be presented clearly to players on PC with standard UI.

Firstmep

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

It’s literally written “solo battlegrounds” theres always ppl that dont read anything but thats on them tbh

When you open the group finder, the default mode set is Random Battlegroud, which is the preamde queue.

If you dont click the dropdown menu, and dont know about the 2 different queues, then you wont even know that you are queueing into a gamemode where 4 premades with full meta setup can and will mow you down.

I dont think making solo the default on the screen, and premade as the selectable from the dropdown would have any negative effect on premade queues, only positive.

Solo queue BGs being hidden from view in the default PC UI until using a drop-down does sound like a problem. We don't have that issue on console, and I'm assuming gamepad mode on PC too, but the option should presented clearly to players on PC with standard UI.

Yeah its hidden, and I think it's an oversight, frankly.

hafgood

You have of course made an assumption here - that they queued into the group queue by mistake. However, what if they CHOSE the group queue figuring they may get a game quicker than choosing the solo queue?

Have you spoken to them and asked why they chose the queue they did?

Basically what I'm saying is you could put flashing lights and bells on the solo queue option and they would still choose the group option....

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

You have of course made an assumption here - that they queued into the group queue by mistake. However, what if they CHOSE the group queue figuring they may get a game quicker than choosing the solo queue?

Have you spoken to them and asked why they chose the queue they did?

Basically what I'm saying is you could put flashing lights and bells on the solo queue option and they would still choose the group option....

I don't think he's trying to influence people's choices. I think he's just saying that people should be clearly presented their options.

hafgood

Yes but he is basing that on the assumption that solo players are in the group queue because that is the default.

I'm merely pointing out that that might not be the case, that the solo players are well aware of the solo queue but are choosing to ignore it.

Without asking the solo players why they are in the group queue there is no evidence to suggest they are ignorant of the solo queue.

Thus he is asking for a solution to a problem that potentially only exists in his head rather than being an actual problem for other players

Firstmep

hafgood wrote: »

Yes but he is basing that on the assumption that solo players are in the group queue because that is the default.

I'm merely pointing out that that might not be the case, that the solo players are well aware of the solo queue but are choosing to ignore it.

Without asking the solo players why they are in the group queue there is no evidence to suggest they are ignorant of the solo queue.

Thus he is asking for a solution to a problem that potentially only exists in his head rather than being an actual problem for other players

I'm in one of the biggest, if not the biggest bg guilds on pc eu and yes I talk to people, both in the guild and outside.
My point is that people that want to queue into premades solo or otherwise wouldn't be hindered, but the possibility of people queueing into the wrong mode would be greatly reduced.
If you are a new player and you look at the default bg menu and it says random battleground, you won't automatically know that it's actually where premades go as well.
And by new player I mean newisb, not brand new ofc.
I often help out new players with advice, gear etc in game and you would be surprised how much information that we take granted, they just won't pick up on since it's not in any tutorial etc.

hafgood

I must be dense because I still don't understand why there is a problem. Zero evidence has been presented to say the solo players you come up against are there by mistake. It's being portrayed as being a massive issue but even the OP hasn't said when speaking to other players that they have said it's an issue. I'm not saying some may not realise there is a solo queue as well, I'm just saying it seems to being turned in to a massive issues when in fact there is no evidence, not even any anecdotal evidence, that there is in fact a problem

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

I must be dense because I still don't understand why there is a problem. Zero evidence has been presented to say the solo players you come up against are there by mistake. It's being portrayed as being a massive issue but even the OP hasn't said when speaking to other players that they have said it's an issue. I'm not saying some may not realise there is a solo queue as well, I'm just saying it seems to being turned in to a massive issues when in fact there is no evidence, not even any anecdotal evidence, that there is in fact a problem

Not a major issue, just an oversight that has the potential to negatively impact a player's battlegrounds experience. There's no knowing for certain whether or not specific solo players are in the group queue intentionally, but we do know for certain that the option for them to solo queue is not clearly presented in the default PC UI.

hafgood

So there is no evidence that there is a problem? Kind of makes this thread pointless....

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

So there is no evidence that there is a problem? Kind of makes this thread pointless....

But there is clear evidence of a problem. The problem is lack of clarity.

And anytime there is a lack of clarity, there could be issues, past, present and/or future. There is no need for hard data about players' unintentional choices before simply clarifying the UI to give players clearer options.

Amottica

This seems to be something that Zeni would not be able to make everyone happy. Changing which is the default merely changes who is inconvenienced by having to make one more click.

Granted, some have suggested a lack of clarity but Zos specifically states one can queue as solo or group for the one selection and only solo for the other selection. That seems fairly clear.

MurderMostFoul

Amottica wrote: »

This seems to be something that Zeni would not be able to make everyone happy. Changing which is the default merely changes who is inconvenienced by having to make one more click.

Granted, some have suggested a lack of clarity but Zos specifically states one can queue as solo or group for the one selection and only solo for the other selection. That seems fairly clear.

The console UI has both options visible as soon as you select battlegrounds from the activity finder. I'm sure that could be worked into the PC UI, just make players see both, get rid of the drop-down list.

Amottica

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

This seems to be something that Zeni would not be able to make everyone happy. Changing which is the default merely changes who is inconvenienced by having to make one more click.

Granted, some have suggested a lack of clarity but Zos specifically states one can queue as solo or group for the one selection and only solo for the other selection. That seems fairly clear.

The console UI has both options visible as soon as you select battlegrounds from the activity finder. I'm sure that could be worked into the PC UI, just make players see both, get rid of the drop-down list.

I would not object. However, having a drop-down menu does communicate clearly that there are likely other selections.

It would seem, there would likely still be a default which would lead those that do not take the time to make a change to still select the default which would seem to be the case with the original request made in this thread.

hafgood

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

But there is clear evidence of a problem. The problem is lack of clarity.

And anytime there is a lack of clarity, there could be issues, past, present and/or future. There is no need for hard data about players' unintentional choices before simply clarifying the UI to give players clearer options.

There is no evidence of a problem. Perceived lack of clarity on your behalf does not equate to a problem.

With no hard data backing up the supposition there is no need for any change to the UI. On fact the requested change could result in confusion and create a problem that doesn't exist at the moment.

The supposition is that players choose the wrong queue because they do not know about the other one. However, there is no evidence to suggest this is the case, with no evidence supporting this view point why would a company invest monet into fixing an issue that quite possibly doesn't exist?

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

But there is clear evidence of a problem. The problem is lack of clarity.

And anytime there is a lack of clarity, there could be issues, past, present and/or future. There is no need for hard data about players' unintentional choices before simply clarifying the UI to give players clearer options.

There is no evidence of a problem. Perceived lack of clarity on your behalf does not equate to a problem.

With no hard data backing up the supposition there is no need for any change to the UI. On fact the requested change could result in confusion and create a problem that doesn't exist at the moment.

The supposition is that players choose the wrong queue because they do not know about the other one. However, there is no evidence to suggest this is the case, with no evidence supporting this view point why would a company invest monet into fixing an issue that quite possibly doesn't exist?

It's a simple matter of editing for clarity, anytime you do so you don't require hard evidence of confusion before making the change, you simply do it proactively to avoid possible confusion. This goes for all forms of communication, including UIs.

I guess people can disagree as to whether or not the current UI is perfectly clear, or if it can be improved. I'm of the opinion that only seeing one option with zero qualifiers attached to it may result in players not realizing there is another option available that they may prefer.

hafgood

But thats your opinion, your perception. And there is no evidence to support your point of view.

So with no evidence to support the perceived lack of clarity I again ask why would s company spend money on changing the UI?

Firstmep

hafgood wrote: »

But thats your opinion, your perception. And there is no evidence to support your point of view.

So with no evidence to support the perceived lack of clarity I again ask why would s company spend money on changing the UI?

The people in my guild caught this mistake when Markarth launched, and yes we did have people queue into Premade bgs that in chat clearly stated that they were just there for their daily reward, and didn't know this was also a Premade queue.
This discussion btw happened at markarth launch about Premade queue being default on pc.
Just Beacuse its not a big issue and most people don't talk about it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Furthermore, I don't have to provide you with any evidence whatsoever, I stated my case and opinion clearly, if you don't agree that's fine, but let's not pretend making a small change in a drop down menu order would cost Zos a ton of money.

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

But thats your opinion, your perception. And there is no evidence to support your point of view.

So with no evidence to support the perceived lack of clarity I again ask why would s company spend money on changing the UI?

Companies are free to edit their communications for clarity at will, without the need for hard evidence. Such edits are fairly nominal. What would cost a lot of money is a policy that all edits for clarity require hard evidence of confusion by those receiving the communication. Then anytime a company wants to modify a communication for clarity, they would need to create some sort of focus group or unbiased polling system to determine the amount of confusion caused. That's not a practical way to operate.

I find the UI somewhat unclear, OP finds it somewhat unclear, it's not unreasonable to expect others do too. And that lack of clarity may make players pick the wrong mode and have a negative experience. Suggesting that we need to show up here with hard evidence of confusion from players before suggesting a change for clarity's sake is a strange position to take.

Giraffon

My experience (a few months ago) was that queueing into solo took too long because the other solo players weren't picking it for one reason or another. Unless they have solo and group side by side with no drop down menu, it's probably better just like it is. It yields the fastest queue time for both solo and premades. As a solo player, sometimes I get added to a premade to fill it out and things go pretty well. Sometimes I'm grouped with other solo players and we get crushed by organized groups. I've just accepted that this is how it is. I believe they did the drop down menu the way it is on purpose and I'm fine with it.

hafgood

Except its not their communication they would need to change but their UI.

To change the UI costs time and therefore money, it has to go through the QA process and then get into the next PC patch.

And yes it may be " a five minute job" but there are a lot of "five minute jobs" - those five minute jobs all add up and before you know it someone has spent a day or two on five minute jobs rather than on the more complex issue they were originally supposed to be dealing with.

So five minute jobs get left until either that area is being looked at for other reasons or if there is evidence that the change is needed. There is no evidence the change is needed so those five minutes (plus QA, etc) can be better spent elsewhere.

MurderMostFoul

hafgood wrote: »

Except its not their communication they would need to change but their UI.

To change the UI costs time and therefore money, it has to go through the QA process and then get into the next PC patch.

And yes it may be " a five minute job" but there are a lot of "five minute jobs" - those five minute jobs all add up and before you know it someone has spent a day or two on five minute jobs rather than on the more complex issue they were originally supposed to be dealing with.

So five minute jobs get left until either that area is being looked at for other reasons or if there is evidence that the change is needed. There is no evidence the change is needed so those five minutes (plus QA, etc) can be better spent elsewhere.

U.I.s are a form of communication. And the "firm evidence of confusion" standard you are suggesting for clarification edits is both impractical and, in fact, non-existent.

They could literally just add the words "group" or "group and solo" to the current UI. Probably more like a 1-minute fix.

old_scopie1945

Firstmep wrote: »

This has been an issue since the split to premade and solo queue happened, but even now, so many unsuspecting solo players queue into the premade mode, as there is no indication that its for premades.
Its not unusual for me to queue up with friends just to have lets say another premade grp and then a team with maybe a duo, but likely 4 solo players thrown into with us.

The queues were separated for a reason, im not even playing some of the most meta builds and setups, and its still so easy to squash solos its not even funny.

And some of the sweatier groups will absolutely destroy not well coordinated bg teams.

I didnt find fighting aganist solos with premades fun, and i didnt find it fun to fight as solo vs premades before.

Im not suggesting that solos should not be allowed into the preamde queue, but making it more clear which game mode people join would be very welcome.

And making solo the default queue also makes sense, if you are in a grp, even as a duo, you likely already know to queue for premades(and you can only queue there anyway), and this would alliviate a lot of issues with people queueing into the wrong mode.

A few months down the line now. IMO it seems that nobody even knows there is even a solo option in battlegrounds. There isn't a clear indication to show the two grouping options at all. It has been very badly thought out IMO. It isn't even a case that it's confusing because there isn't even a clear indication that it even exists. You can get into a game fast but if you use the solo option, maybe never.