Can MDK get 1 (one) burst damage ability in the next test cycle?

Veg

Just to test it. Like hey there's this one class that cannot stack damage without proc sets. Remember when Templars had no burst damage and then zos tested a new execute ability and it was great?

What counts as burst damage you ask?
1. Any ability that does the same or more damage than flame whip and can deal its damage at the same time as flame whip
2. Any execute. Even if it kinda sucks, like an aoe execute that would be too weak for PVE Raid bosses.

Why not just try it in the pts? What's the reason to pretend that DoTs that add up to less than 1 proc set in damage are effective in pvp?

Free Shrugs

Vevvev

Flames of Oblivion and Inhale. I know I know they're not as good as other class's abilities with a delayed tick of damage you can time with an ult or spammable, but they exist. I'd like to see these abilities being buffed just a tad tbh and I know a couple of patches ago they did buff Inhale a bit.

Veg

Vevvev wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion and Inhale. I know I know they're not as good as other class's abilities with a delayed tick of damage you can time with an ult or spammable, but they exist. I'd like to see these abilities being buffed just a tad tbh and I know a couple of patches ago they did buff Inhale a bit.

now now, lets not pretend that an ability that does less damage than the class spammable is considered burst damage. Rules 1 and 2 must apply. I'm kinda hinting at wings and stonefist here. Just saying they could just maybe be completely replaced by new abilities.

IAmIcehouse

Why does every class need to play the same?

yeyesil

Magdk has a good burst potential. Leap+3x moltenwhip and try to hit them at the same time with flames of oblivion. Magdk and any other magicka class combo dont hit as much as stamina classes.

Magdk is a dot class. I think only ability the class needs is an execute dot.

catnamedwill

Molten Whipx3 is a burst skill.

Zer0_CooL

There is, you just have to spam 3 DoTs before you can use it. And make sure you hit, otherwise you got to spam dots again.

More serious answer: use inhale for delay burst. Charge molten whip, inhale, dragon leap, whip.

If leap would stun insted of knock back that would be nice.

Firstmep

Molten whip? Flames of Oblivion? Leap?

MW can hit incredibly hard fully stacked.

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

There is, you just have to spam 3 DoTs before you can use it. And make sure you hit, otherwise you got to spam dots again.

More serious answer: use inhale for delay burst. Charge molten whip, inhale, dragon leap, whip.

If leap would stun insted of knock back that would be nice.

If leap stunned instead of knockback, you wouldnt get a free hit in right after, which is one of the most important aspects of this ulti, imho.

Derra

Veg wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion and Inhale. I know I know they're not as good as other class's abilities with a delayed tick of damage you can time with an ult or spammable, but they exist. I'd like to see these abilities being buffed just a tad tbh and I know a couple of patches ago they did buff Inhale a bit.

now now, lets not pretend that an ability that does less damage than the class spammable is considered burst damage. Rules 1 and 2 must apply. I'm kinda hinting at wings and stonefist here. Just saying they could just maybe be completely replaced by new abilities.

All you need to do is equip a lightning staff and deep breath will do more damage than the class spammable.
Additional benefit being foo and leap also gaining dmg effectively buffing any molten whip leap combos.

Kinda fulfills the set requirements then?

Zer0_CooL

@Firstmep

I rarely get a free hit for following reasons:

- Enemys ability to break free mid flight (too long animation)
- Enemy lands somwhere left, right or behind me, and i must turn around givig him enough time to roll doge. (might be a console exclusive problem since the camera turning speed is slower as on PC)

So i imagine a stun would be more reliable.

Veg

I'm seeing a lot of deep breath arguments so ill tackle that. You have to already be engaged in combat to use this. This is similar to Merciless Resolve by the fact that you cant use this ability as an opener like shalk. Yet deep breath does half the damage of shalk or Merciless Resolve.

You need a reliable skill that is guaranteed to go off when you need it to and deal considerable damage. Having to attack an enemy to initiate your ability leaves too many openings for you to only deal damage at your regular spammable level.

If deep breath activated the same way crystal weapons activated then yes it would be amazing burst damage. This would mean that you could apply deep breath to your next attack without already attacking someone. Right now you are better off using proxy det for burst damage even 1v1.

Also whats so wrong about testing a new skill? Templars got this at least twice. Why cant the devs just try something new? We all know that MDKs flat out suck at getting kills. Some people will argue for different reasons But with the removal of proc sets it's clear as day. MDK's are plain garbage at anything other than self healing. They cant even do a decent job of healing their allies.

Veg

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Why does every class need to play the same?

Why does only 1 class have no burst damage anywhere close to every other class? Does every non MDK play the same? food for thought.

catnamedwill

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Why does every class need to play the same?

Why does only 1 class have no burst damage anywhere close to every other class? Does every non MDK play the same? food for thought.

Because MDK literally has a Burst damage skill in Molten Whip. Molten Whip x 3 hits as hard as Merciless Resolve, with same stats.

Veg

catnamedwill wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Why does every class need to play the same?

Why does only 1 class have no burst damage anywhere close to every other class? Does every non MDK play the same? food for thought.

Because MDK literally has a Burst damage skill in Molten Whip. Molten Whip x 3 hits as hard as Merciless Resolve, with same stats.

You need to either cast 3 DoTs, spam Flames of oblivion 3 times or spam chains 3 times to use this skill. So thats about 10k magic to activate this skill and your have to spam useless abilities reducing your damage done. Merciless Resolve requires you to use light attacks. That costs nothing. You can weave your light attacks in with your regular damage. Also nightblades have the option of following up with an execute.

Flame lash is simply more reliable. Molten whip cannot be used reliably enough to work in pvp.

divnyi

Why just MDK, when stamDK has the same?

IMO, it's not about lack of burst, DK has best DoTs in the game. It's just DoTs nerfed to the ground.

Veg

divnyi wrote: »

Why just MDK, when stamDK has the same?

IMO, it's not about lack of burst, DK has best DoTs in the game. It's just DoTs nerfed to the ground.

Because Stam DK's have access to weapon skills including executes. I'm not saying that stam DK's are great im just focusing on MDK's.

Also you say that MDK's have the best DoTs in the game and then immediately say that all DoTs are bad. Obviously MDK's DoTs are not working for pvp.

buzzclops

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Sanguinor2

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Do the people you fight not know what block is?

Veg

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Thats the worst MDK combo i've heard of from the forums. You're relying on an ult, leaving yourself open during your heavy attack and then using whip 3 times?!? Or are you actually saying that you want to use molten whip by spamming DoTs on no one and wasting 10k magic so you can then charge a full heavy attack and use your ult?

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

Chilly-McFreeze

Veg wrote: »

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

*rolls eyes* Crystal Weapon has exactly the insta spam tooltip. Plus the whole combo includes on Dizzy, Crystal, DBoS, Execute.

Veg wrote: »

You're relying on an ult.

3 out of 4 skills aren't even class skills. So much for that.

Veg wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Why just MDK, when stamDK has the same?

IMO, it's not about lack of burst, DK has best DoTs in the game. It's just DoTs nerfed to the ground.

have access to weapon skills including executes.

Firstmep

Veg wrote: »

catnamedwill wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Why does every class need to play the same?

Why does only 1 class have no burst damage anywhere close to every other class? Does every non MDK play the same? food for thought.

Because MDK literally has a Burst damage skill in Molten Whip. Molten Whip x 3 hits as hard as Merciless Resolve, with same stats.

You need to either cast 3 DoTs, spam Flames of oblivion 3 times or spam chains 3 times to use this skill. So thats about 10k magic to activate this skill and your have to spam useless abilities reducing your damage done. Merciless Resolve requires you to use light attacks. That costs nothing. You can weave your light attacks in with your regular damage. Also nightblades have the option of following up with an execute.

Flame lash is simply more reliable. Molten whip cannot be used reliably enough to work in pvp.

LOL, embers, flames, Foo, whip.

Spam chain 3x, do you even play magDK or just making stuff up to fit your argument?

I personally know ppl that destroy with a setup like this.
Sure it's not your typical tape down left mouse button, turtle and spam dots and talons playstyle, but it's very effective offensively.

Oh and your nightblade argument is laughable.

Light attacks are free? yea for everyone. You can just naturally weave your skills? Why you dont weave on magdk??

Merciless takes longer to build up, has a minimum travel time, and has a loud af soundclue for your opponent so they can dodge..

You can stack up molten whip using skills that you would use in pvp anyway..

Come on now lets be real here.

buzzclops

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Thats the worst MDK combo i've heard of from the forums. You're relying on an ult, leaving yourself open during your heavy attack and then using whip 3 times?!? Or are you actually saying that you want to use molten whip by spamming DoTs on no one and wasting 10k magic so you can then charge a full heavy attack and use your ult?

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

3x whip means the 3stack proc... and you can still do a regular rotation while waiting for your ult youre not a ganker lmao. This combo does like a 40k burst in pvp. Im not saying to do nothing till you do that smh. Time it well when the kill windows are there and its deadly af. The heavy attack lands at the same time as the leap and the whip does like 12k while they re flying and they die still flying because its so much damage it desyncs them lmao

buzzclops

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Do the people you fight not know what block is?

They do its in high mmr bgs but you cant always keep track of the 8 players around you. Youre telling me you never got hit by a leap? Hahaha

the1andonlyskwex

buzzclops wrote: »

while waiting for your ult

This is the main problem with (mag)DK's burst "combo". Most other classes have a viable burst combo that doesn't rely on an ult.

Also, building up stacks of molten whip requires you to make huge sacrifices in other areas, which often makes it not worth the effort. Either you're slotting skills you probably wouldn't use otherwise, or you're wasting GCDs and magicka on recasting dots with the majority of their duration remaining.

buzzclops

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

while waiting for your ult

This is the main problem with (mag)DK's burst "combo". Most other classes have a viable burst combo that doesn't rely on an ult.

Also, building up stacks of molten whip requires you to make huge sacrifices in other areas, which often makes it not worth the effort. Either you're slotting skills you probably wouldn't use otherwise, or you're wasting GCDs and magicka on recasting dots with the majority of their duration remaining.

I don’t disagree with you of course but i was just telling a way you can 100-0 (2 globals) players in group fights as mdk. In team fights you dont lose as much uptime because its worth it to spread your dots around while building stacks. I feel like people sometimes only see things from 1v1 perspective tho idk.

the1andonlyskwex

buzzclops wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

while waiting for your ult

This is the main problem with (mag)DK's burst "combo". Most other classes have a viable burst combo that doesn't rely on an ult.

Also, building up stacks of molten whip requires you to make huge sacrifices in other areas, which often makes it not worth the effort. Either you're slotting skills you probably wouldn't use otherwise, or you're wasting GCDs and magicka on recasting dots with the majority of their duration remaining.

I don’t disagree with you of course but i was just telling a way you can 100-0 (2 globals) players in group fights as mdk. In team fights you dont lose as much uptime because its worth it to spread your dots around while building stacks. I feel like people sometimes only see things from 1v1 perspective tho idk.

My experience with spreading my DoTs around is that nobody dies because it doesn't result in significant pressure on anybody.

buzzclops

[/quote]

My experience with spreading my DoTs around is that nobody dies because it doesn't result in significant pressure on anybody.[/quote]

I disagree, i feel dots are super oppressive in no cp when built properly but thats a complete other topic!

Veg

buzzclops wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Thats the worst MDK combo i've heard of from the forums. You're relying on an ult, leaving yourself open during your heavy attack and then using whip 3 times?!? Or are you actually saying that you want to use molten whip by spamming DoTs on no one and wasting 10k magic so you can then charge a full heavy attack and use your ult?

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

3x whip means the 3stack proc... and you can still do a regular rotation while waiting for your ult youre not a ganker lmao. This combo does like a 40k burst in pvp. Im not saying to do nothing till you do that smh. Time it well when the kill windows are there and its deadly af. The heavy attack lands at the same time as the leap and the whip does like 12k while they re flying and they die still flying because its so much damage it desyncs them lmao

You're gonna need to show the numbers on that. Even stam sorcs dont get close to 40k burst damage. I call BS. Now lets get back to how MDK's do not have access to a reliable burst combo.

There is no line up of skills that you can use as a MDK for burst damage without droping your ult. We need something new. Why would you not want to see a new skill replace wings or stonefist on the pts?

buzzclops

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Thats the worst MDK combo i've heard of from the forums. You're relying on an ult, leaving yourself open during your heavy attack and then using whip 3 times?!? Or are you actually saying that you want to use molten whip by spamming DoTs on no one and wasting 10k magic so you can then charge a full heavy attack and use your ult?

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

3x whip means the 3stack proc... and you can still do a regular rotation while waiting for your ult youre not a ganker lmao. This combo does like a 40k burst in pvp. Im not saying to do nothing till you do that smh. Time it well when the kill windows are there and its deadly af. The heavy attack lands at the same time as the leap and the whip does like 12k while they re flying and they die still flying because its so much damage it desyncs them lmao

You're gonna need to show the numbers on that. Even stam sorcs dont get close to 40k burst damage. I call BS. Now lets get back to how MDK's do not have access to a reliable burst combo.

There is no line up of skills that you can use as a MDK for burst damage without droping your ult. We need something new. Why would you want to see a new skill replace wings or stonefist on the pts?

Its the highest ive seem it do on squishy targets for sure. Something like 8k heavy attack+3k infused flame glyph + 11k leap + 12 k whip while having 3k ticks combined from dots at that moment. But magdk is never going to be a burst oriented class its just how it is. There are other classes for that. This combo is just a mag version of dizzy>leap>execute im doing and its working fine on most targets. With empower and dks buff your flame heavies hit really hard. I’m not saying its the best burst in the game and the most reliable. Just saying its a combo worth doing sometime when kill windows allow it

Veg

buzzclops wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

Flame staff heavy attack>leap>3xwhip is a huge burst combo that is almost unavoidable when started from range. I get so many kills in bg with this. You can buff your heavies to do a lot of burst dmg on mdk.

Thats the worst MDK combo i've heard of from the forums. You're relying on an ult, leaving yourself open during your heavy attack and then using whip 3 times?!? Or are you actually saying that you want to use molten whip by spamming DoTs on no one and wasting 10k magic so you can then charge a full heavy attack and use your ult?

Meanwhile the stam sorc has 5 kills from leashing people into crystal weapons -> execute.

3x whip means the 3stack proc... and you can still do a regular rotation while waiting for your ult youre not a ganker lmao. This combo does like a 40k burst in pvp. Im not saying to do nothing till you do that smh. Time it well when the kill windows are there and its deadly af. The heavy attack lands at the same time as the leap and the whip does like 12k while they re flying and they die still flying because its so much damage it desyncs them lmao

You're gonna need to show the numbers on that. Even stam sorcs dont get close to 40k burst damage. I call BS. Now lets get back to how MDK's do not have access to a reliable burst combo.

There is no line up of skills that you can use as a MDK for burst damage without droping your ult. We need something new. Why would you want to see a new skill replace wings or stonefist on the pts?

Its the highest ive seem it do on squishy targets for sure. Something like 8k heavy attack+3k infused flame glyph + 11k leap + 12 k whip while having 3k ticks combined from dots at that moment. But magdk is never going to be a burst oriented class its just how it is. There are other classes for that. This combo is just a mag version of dizzy>leap>execute im doing and its working fine on most targets. With empower and dks buff your flame heavies hit really hard. I’m not saying its the best burst in the game and the most reliable. Just saying its a combo worth doing sometime when kill windows allow it

lets be real... that's a one in a million example. anyone taking that damage would be killed by looking at them too hard. MDK's need a new reliable burst combo if they're gonna do anything other than be targets.

Waffennacht

Or we can go the other way and remove curse, and shalk.

And maybe remove the other abilities that DK doesnt have.

What about that?

(Heehee)