Too many fake tanks / fake healers!

Alpharos7

Seriously, anyone else noticing a lot of fake tanks / healers? It is making the game unplayable! I was just on The Cauldron, and we had a 1600cp ‘healing’. In reality they were stamina DPS and they doomed the whole group, as the tank couldn’t stay alive and there was no-one providing support for the DPS.

Please, if you are too impatient for the group finder, join a guild. Don’t ruin other people’s enjoyment!

Rittings

Yeah, and it's going to be a little rougher as everyone starts to do randoms and misqueues for faster times right now...

You'd think with the changes to crit, DPS numbers being down overall, that people would be creating new healers and tanks to keep ahead of the curve and stay relevant... lol. Not that I'm undermining healers and tanks, but they seem to be less affected by the changes (I know this, because I main healers (I have like 10 of them... haha)).

Mojmir

only thing i notice is intentional dying at the beginning of randoms and then waiting for the group to finish to respawn. swift kick is instituted.

Rittings

Mojmir wrote: »

only thing i notice is intentional dying at the beginning of randoms and then waiting for the group to finish to respawn. swift kick is instituted.

Wow?? Is that really a thing?? I mean... I know players can be lazy (I mean, look at the afk bots at dolmens), but that takes it to a new level!! Do they not realize how much faster it would be to just help with the dungeon and it will all be done faster??? Unless... they encounter what I've seen... the multi-boxers that do something similar. And you can't kick the one person, because it needs all 3 of you to agree, and that obviously wouldn't happen.

Kurat

Random normals give the best rewards in the game lol. That's why everyone wants to do them and get in as fast as possible. Fake role increase was expected after they started giving 10 transmutes and even more now that everyone wants to gain cp. I hate to ask for nerfs but it doesn't make sense to get the most xp and transmutes from the easiest group activity in the game. Random vets gives the same amount but its way harder. Hatd mode pledges only give 5 lol and trials give 5 crystals weekly per toon and hardly any xp.
No wonder people are faking normals.

hands0medevil

and too many fake dds. oh man everything is fake, we are doomed

scrosedk

Guess it is about time ZOS provide some regulations or at least some options against fakers. I wish they could add a new function to the dungeon system so players can mark the faker and the faker will never show up in the PUG of the ppl who have marked them.

And what? ppl will surely abuse the function? F that! coz Fakers are already abusing the other players who are willing to do what their roles are supposed to do all right?

ixthUA

I think the problem is that dlc dungeons are much harder and much less time-efficient than normal dungeons, and they can't be disabled in group finder once unlocked. I play without subscription and didn't buy a single dlc dungeon, so for me nrandom is breeze and fun. But those poor players who unlocked dlc dungeons and do them with randoms obviously suffer. When there is free sub week i just stop queuing, because everyone wants to do dlc dungeons. Until they are separated into a different queue the problem will remain. And if they will be separated noone will queue for them, so devs will not do this.

Agenericname

ixthUA wrote: »

I think the problem is that dlc dungeons are much harder and much less time-efficient than normal dungeons, and they can't be disabled in group finder once unlocked. I play without subscription and didn't buy a single dlc dungeon, so for me nrandom is breeze and fun. But those poor players who unlocked dlc dungeons and do them with randoms obviously suffer. When there is free sub week i just stop queuing, because everyone wants to do dlc dungeons. Until they are separated into a different queue the problem will remain. And if they will be separated noone will queue for them, so devs will not do this.

Im sure that you do in fact feel that way, but that isnt the problem. What keeps more fake tanks out of vet is the possibility of getting a vet DLC. Of those that are willing to risk it, most leave when they see where they are. If the queue were limited to base game only vets, you would see more fake roles, not less.

Its why they are so prevelant in normals, because real roles arent an absolute necessity for most people.

That said, I would prefer that they did split the queue for purely selfish reasons. I dont like the non-DLC vets in most cases and as a tank, we arent really needed by a competent group. Id rather just play in the DLCs.

But, it is as @Kurat stated. Its the most efficient way to get the 10 transmutes and now that CP2.0 has lifted the cap, its fast XP. Unless ZOS changes how the rewards scale, or implement some type of control, which I highly doubt, I wouldnt expect it to ease up any time soon.

RaikaNA

Alpharos7 wrote: »

Seriously, anyone else noticing a lot of fake tanks / healers? It is making the game unplayable! I was just on The Cauldron, and we had a 1600cp ‘healing’. In reality they were stamina DPS and they doomed the whole group, as the tank couldn’t stay alive and there was no-one providing support for the DPS.

Please, if you are too impatient for the group finder, join a guild. Don’t ruin other people’s enjoyment!

Pugging a random normal/vet is risky.

If you're not willing to accept risk and RNG.. I suggest going to Craglorn (or your guild) and ask for a real tank and real healer for your random normal, or vet. Don't rely on the LFG tool.

jessica_1403

I think that they should make a system where you no longer have to input your role, but something that the game automatically knows what role you play so this way you cannot cheat. You just apply for normal or vet and the game fills in the rest without the possibility to change.

Hopefully one day we'll get an upgrade like this. The cheaters will hate it, but honest ppl will love it

yesterday I did my first run with dungeon finder(yes I'm a new player) and nobody was healing so I guess I got to experience it right from the start. Luckily we didn't need one (got my pets to heal me) but it's not fair. I had to wait 15min and he probably could start much faster

AyaDark

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

Elendir2am

AyaDark wrote: »

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

You don't understand what OP means by word “support”.
Tank and Healer are marked as support roles by doing tank stuff and healer stuff. And you are wrong, both, tank and healer, carry buffs normally so DDs can do more dmg. These buffs have more impact on DDs with high DPS then on other cause.

Problems of fake tanks and fake healers originate in fact, that playing as tank are soooooooo boooooring. Healer role is a little better. ZOS don’t do anything with it unfortunately. Last update screwed blocking (what is problem of trials than dungeons) and I feel like ZOS want to make life of tanks at ESO as boring as possible.

Alpharos7

AyaDark wrote: »

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

I'll clarify the problem for you:

It's impossible to DPS when the tank is not protecting you and the healer isn't sustaining you.

I get that a really good DPS should be able to sustain themselves without a tank / healer for a time - and I get that some normal PVE content is possible by simply powering through with DPS and ignoring many of the mechanics.

Simply put though, DPS should not have to heal, their role is damage, and for every second they are having to heal they are losing DPS, making dungeons much much harder. The same with tanking - if a DPS has to take resources from stamina to put into health and they have to slot skills to hold aggro as there isn't a tank, then their DPS is significantly reduced and the content becomes much harder

That is why fake tanks/ healers are such a pain.

El_Borracho

AyaDark wrote: »

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

I only tank and DD. As a DD, fake tanks are only a problem when they can not hold aggro and/or get killed by the boss. I run my own sources of major brutality/savagery/sorcery anyway, so all I am looking for is a tank that can tank.

As a tank, I completely agree with you that a DD that needs damage boosts to do adequate damage is a fake DD. Knowing this, I routinely slot the Molten Armaments on my DK tank to avoid this. It becomes more noticable on my warden tank who does not run a comparable skill. Instead, that tank runs more CC's and resistances for the group to keep the noodles alive. Fortunately, most of the pugs I've run with have good DPS, but we always remember the bad ones.

As for self-healing, any DD or tank running pugs should slot a self-heal. Why? Because the healer is usually a DD.

webgeo99

THAT'S what the group kick is for! Getting rid of that type of player. NOT because they are low level!

preevious

AyaDark wrote: »

In my opinion DD who needs support to his DPS is - just a Fake DD by the way.

Do damage by your own. It is your task - you are DD by the way.

Yeah, but in a team where 3 DDs does more damage than 2 DDs with a support (a heal), the DDs and heal are good-but-not-great.

Healers properly team-working can boost a team DPS quite more than another DD would.

MrMazurski

Im fine with fake tank/healers *** long they do real dmg, like >20k without any support. At normal you can easy go even with 4DD.

But im mostly annoying when someone fake role at Vet, and want go for DLC dungeons? xD its joke.

And most annoying are ppl what really fake DD... i saw many times where ppl dont cap even 10k dps... and going for Vet...

I sometimes fake healer with my DD, but when i do 50-60% team dps, its sound like carrying random team.

Honestly, for me. More problem are ppl what going for Vet. Recently I farmed one set. I wanted go for Vet. Im going with my true tank. TEAM DPS count around 20k dmg including me tank...

Random Vet is simply the worst experience. DD with pvp set up (saw ppl even with high CP what have 36k hp how DD? You dont need to long think what the hell have with thier "hero" and what they are doing on VET)

Noldornir

Quite the same old story:

I dont want to be THAT ass but... have you considered tanking/healing instead of complaining?

As long as 90% ppl play DD because they want to be "the badass" that will leave (real) tanks/heal to ~5% of player base.

This leads to the following options:

• Eternal queue for DD as they can't go fake role and every 2 DD will need one tank and one heal, to have a decent queue time we should have very different percentages in roles (50% DD - 25% tanks - 25% healer).
• Fake roles (healer is fake 80% times in a dungeon, fake tank is usually only found in normal dungeons) to "fool" the queue system

Not even talking about another issue= DD not doing enough damage queuing for Vet DLC ---> As you expect a REAL tank (which should not die without an healer to begin with btw, might happen but not on a standard basis) and a REAL healer they will expect REAL damage (not ppl spamming heavy attacks) otherwise they'll want to do damage themselves and they will turn into DD making the gap between support roles/DD even bigger...

The Dire truth is that 99% times is better to have tank+3DD in a random because most likely the 3 DD will hit lower than 2 DD should.

Can I ask if the Cauldron was in Vet an your own DPS? because if it's less than ~60/70k on a trial dummy you shouldn't even be there to begin with otherwise you are asking the Tank and Healer you want in to go with way less damage than what should be expected and they can't make up for it so...

Poor damage dealing DDs should work on improve instead of rushing headlong into vet dlc dungeons and PRETENDING (they dont ask anyone - they just expect) for a carry

Kusto

If I queue as tank (real tank build) but change gear/skills later in dungeon (to dps), am I considered as fake tank? This is what happens 90% of the runs for me. I queue as real tank but the group dps is soo low that I have to switch to dps (praise the addons). I would like to tank, I like tanking, but I'm forced to fake it instead. Then why bother, why not just queue as tank with my dps toons from the beginning if I end up doing damage anyways?

MirandaSharp

Kusto wrote: »

If I queue as tank (real tank build) but change gear/skills later in dungeon (to dps), am I considered as fake tank? This is what happens 90% of the runs for me. I queue as real tank but the group dps is soo low that I have to switch to dps (praise the addons). I would like to tank, I like tanking, but I'm forced to fake it instead. Then why bother, why not just queue as tank with my dps toons from the beginning if I end up doing damage anyways?

As long as you hold aggro I don't see any problem with your approach. I often do the same to help out when damage is on the low side...

JULIORAIN

I have 8 characters built. I have 2 dedicated tank builds, a dedicated support warden, and the rest mages that filled from various classes and roles. FWIW I only receved my first set of gold weapons a few weeks ago. Like I'm just about to hit cp 500.

No way in hell is my lineup even ready to start working on vet dungeons (still working on jewellry crafting on my main) after about two months of gameplay.

What I've learned is that people take random normals extremely seriously, and perhaps a bit too seriously. Sure, there is a huge spike in difficulty between DLC/base game dungeons, but base game, random, non DLC dungeons are trivially easy. About 25%-35% of dungeons are DLC, leaving you at approx. ⅔ chance of being OKAY.

80% of the reasons why my characters have been kicked or had players drop is because a) DLC dungeon with mechanics unbeknowest to new players. for instance when my characters underperformed, they played the role. they healed, they tanked whatnot, but due to my unfamiliarity I was spending more energy trying to not die from the mechanics rather than perform my role (the cauldron, that werewolf dungeon), or, b) bad team personailty dynamics (I once said "rip quest" when a tank wanted to rush the dungeon, but I needed the skill point since my character wasn't quite 50. he then screamed and cried like a lil baby, quit and blocked everyone in the group, causing me and two DPS who havent really been in that dungeon before to do it alone).

Then there were some random times I was kicked arbitrarily in WAYREST SEWERS 1, the easiest dungeon in the game, simply because the other team wanted a specific person on their team.

Veinblood1965

No PLEASE not another fake tank/fake healer post

Soris

Weird, I rarely find a fake tank or healer. Where do you guys finding them?? I'm playing with a healer tank hybrid and I actually want to see more of those fake roles.

MirandaSharp

Soris wrote: »

Weird, I rarely find a fake tank or healer. Where do you guys finding them?? I'm playing with a healer tank hybrid and I actually want to see more of those fake roles.

Play as DD, that's when you start to see them... Very frustrating after waiting 15 minutes in queue to find out you got 4 DDs and no healer nor tank.

Elendir2am

I'm going to share a funny story from last night at Blackheart haven random. I hope it cheers you up a little bit.

Once upon a time, there was one not a tank that went hunting for the evil pirate captain. His resistance was lousy, and so was his DPS. No less he hoped the healer would keep him alive through his speed run for boss and crystals.

Once upon a time there was one not a healer, who went hunting for an evil pirate captain. He didn't know how to heal much, and his DPS was useless. However, he hoped the tank would protect him of any injuries that would threaten him through his speed run behind th for boss and crystals.

And then there was me, who follow our mighty heroes, killing the thrash who were under their status. I was wondering how they were going to go through the door during the fight, but it was obviously task for us less important hero's assistants. The second DD initially accompany me until we arrived to Atarus chambers.

Here, the fake-tank could understand that healer would not heal him, and fake-healer, that the tank would not protect him. They both almost died before I got to the scene. Still, they and the other DD went forward on ongoing speed run while I was cleaning harps behind. And so they ran and then lay down, as first mate Wavecutter cut them down. All except for the other DD that fled back to me.

To prove that our heroes had some cognitive functions after all, from that moment on, I modest assistant led the entire company of mighty heroes. No one was running in front of me, especially when they saw it wasn't that much slower than their mighty charge forward. I was collected aggro of trash and bosses until our heroes accomplish their goal, together as a team.

RaikaNA

jessica_1403 wrote: »

I think that they should make a system where you no longer have to input your role, but something that the game automatically knows what role you play so this way you cannot cheat. You just apply for normal or vet and the game fills in the rest without the possibility to change.

Hopefully one day we'll get an upgrade like this. The cheaters will hate it, but honest ppl will love it

yesterday I did my first run with dungeon finder(yes I'm a new player) and nobody was healing so I guess I got to experience it right from the start. Luckily we didn't need one (got my pets to heal me) but it's not fair. I had to wait 15min and he probably could start much faster

I rather have ZOS fix bugs that prevent people from completing quests,etc.... fixing the server to end lag rather than to make some system that prevents people from being a fake tank/healer/dps,etc.. it seems like a total waste of valuable resources. There comes a time where people need to be self-regulated... Stop relying on the developers for everything that you want them to do. If you hate fake tanks and healers... guess what? Go join a PvE guild, and form your own Random normal dungeon group.. It's just that simple. You Pug you run the risk of this kind of stuff.

moo_2021

Or can the game put a warning if a healer has no healing ability or tank without taunt slotted? That way some DD or tank can just leave in the beginning if they're uncomfortable with that.

There have been DD players who jumped right into hard hitting DLC mobs, assuming the healer would do his work, and saw HP instantly dropped below half.

As a tank and often the only supportive role, my magicka pool for healing others is quite limited and sometimes DD die because AoE or mob damage was too much for me to keep healing everyone while keeping Inner Fire on bosses.

Nogawd

Alpharos7 wrote: »

It's impossible to DPS when the tank is not protecting you and the healer isn't sustaining you.

Speak for yourself.

Cozzy1991

I fake tank daily. There’s too many fake dd’s. I don’t have 40 minuets to waste clearing a random normal. I’d rather jump on my dps, queue as a tank and solo the dungeon and be rid of slow and lazy people. If it’s a dungeon that requires a hard taunt, I’ll slot inner fire. If you’re holding aggro of a dungeon boss and still doing 87% of the damage to it, your team is trash.

Cozzy1991

Kusto wrote: »

If I queue as tank (real tank build) but change gear/skills later in dungeon (to dps), am I considered as fake tank? This is what happens 90% of the runs for me. I queue as real tank but the group dps is soo low that I have to switch to dps (praise the addons). I would like to tank, I like tanking, but I'm forced to fake it instead. Then why bother, why not just queue as tank with my dps toons from the beginning if I end up doing damage anyways?

Fake damage dealers are more common than fake tanks! We don’t want to sit in a random normal for 50 minuets while the muppets you get assigned to stand in big pink circles and say “MO hEAl oR taNk gG”