BG Community in Support of Current BG Meta

gariondavey

Hi Everyone,

I'm a member of a BG focused guild on PCNA called "Adastra". It has over 350 members, many of which are leaderboard players, alliance rank 40+, big PVP theorycrafters, and PVP streamers. (In a nutshell, the "sweaty BG crowd", lol).

The general consensus from members of our guild is that the current BG meta is refreshing, and extremely fun. The old meta, to many, was becoming increasingly stale.

With the addition of base resources, as well as spell damage and healing, there are a lot more build possibilities than before!

Many players are doing stat builds. Many players are doing proc builds. Many are doing combinations of the 2 of them.

Thank you for this, ZOS. (More often than not, our threads are pointing out stuff we don't like. It is good to also comment on when we think things are done right).

If you also have noticed this as well, please voice your support!

Thank you.

StarOfElyon

Personally, I hope this is the negotiating phase of the death of proc-sets in PVP.

Noctus

yes there is no meta right now since stat builds got more attractive after the boost. but i think most ppl will use a combination.

Goregrinder

Noctus wrote: »

yes there is no meta right now since stat builds got more attractive after the boost. but i think most ppl will use a combination.

In about 4 weeks we'll have a better idea of what the meta will mold into once the dust finally settles, and everyone is done testing everything out.

Nick_Balza

Not going to support proc stuff anywhere. And that's why:

- Procs allow abusing and exploiting game mechanics
- They are ruining game world (wizards with staff is ok, but stamcro with staff of elements is nonsense. Same as stamplars or even tanks)
- Build and class identities are ruined. No matter who is operator of Zaan + Wrath of elements + caluurion. You are not facing dk, templar, sorc or whatever. You deal with just bunch of proc sets instead of enemy.
- Statistically operator of proc stuff is overconfident, rude and toxic in team and cares about nothing except doing his DM.

I am very glad that new patch now prevents them from running around godmoded and ruining game experience of casual players who want to do objectives and play as a team in team modes.

MurderMostFoul

Console player here, just got to the party, limited experience with patch, early observations:

1. BG combat has improved significantly.
2. The added stats make healing strong enough to deal with procs.
3. Added stats make skill damage comparable to proc damage.
4. Werewolf scourge has been lessened, they can still be super tanky, but they can't do as much damage if they are.
5. Added off stat (Mag for stam class, stam for mag class) opens up a lot of build options, looking forward to test further.
6. To early to say for me, but class balance seems ok. Every damage threat in BGs, no matter the class, feels like it can be taken out. StamDK and Stamden have felt like outliers a bit, but I need to play more and see how things settle.

Overall, seems like a good job ZOS! Now if we could just play DM more often...

Firstmep

On pc EU I still see a ton of 40k hp full proc builds as before, they just hot harder with their skills on top of the procs.

My stamplar with mostly just Stat build and malacath hits like an absolute truck, it's been a while since I hit tanky wardens and necros with 8-10k dbs, or well never before.
The nord nerf also helped for sure.
Healing is definetly up there too, my magplar with Ev and calu gets like 10k+ bol crits, so thats nice.
I think offensive Stat scaling heals got comperably stronger vs hp heals and health recov.
Also nice seeing permamisting folks no longer "healing" to full, while being unkillable in mist.
I see a lot of ppl just starting to realize how much you can dodgeroll in light armor now, and generally stamina management in light has never been better.
I don't want to see anyone complain about not being able to use their Stam for more than a couple of break frees, when my magplar with 18k Stam can easily rip 6-7 somersaults in a row..

Juhasow

To be honest it feels like base stat increase only encourages proc meta. Right now You can basically sacrifice Your mag and/or stam and invest it even more into HP(which was also increased) to build up 45k+ HP in BG while wearing 3-4 procs and doing more base dmg and healing then before because Your stam/mag will be the same but HP and wep/spell dmg will be higher and all of that with 3-4 procs plus malacath. Stat based builds are hitting more then they used to but the thing is everyone is hitting for more due to stat increase and armor changes.

MurderMostFoul

Juhasow wrote: »

To be honest it feels like base stat increase only encourages proc meta. Right now You can basically sacrifice Your mag and/or stam and invest it even more into HP(which was also increased) to build up 45k+ HP in BG while wearing 3-4 procs and doing more base dmg and healing then before because Your stam/mag will be the same but HP and wep/spell dmg will be higher and all of that with 3-4 procs plus malacath. Stat based builds are hitting more then they used to but the thing is everyone is hitting for more due to stat increase and armor changes.

The reason why stat builds got a comparatively greater buff then proc builds is because of the controllability of their buffed bursts and buffed heals. With the increased damage/healing across the board, a proc build can unload their procs on you, but stat builds should will be able to heal through it. And once the procs are on cooldown, stat builds will have a couple of opportunities to land their bursts (which are now stronger than ever) before the procs are ready again.

Juhasow

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

To be honest it feels like base stat increase only encourages proc meta. Right now You can basically sacrifice Your mag and/or stam and invest it even more into HP(which was also increased) to build up 45k+ HP in BG while wearing 3-4 procs and doing more base dmg and healing then before because Your stam/mag will be the same but HP and wep/spell dmg will be higher and all of that with 3-4 procs plus malacath. Stat based builds are hitting more then they used to but the thing is everyone is hitting for more due to stat increase and armor changes.

The reason why stat builds got a comparatively greater buff then proc builds is because of the controllability of their buffed bursts and buffed heals. With the increased damage/healing across the board, a proc build can unload their procs on you, but stat builds should will be able to heal through it. And once the procs are on cooldown, stat builds will have a couple of opportunities to land their bursts (which are now stronger than ever) before the procs are ready again.

Assuming that proc builds do not have acces to controllable burst dmg and healing is big mistake. With increased dmg accros the board proc build will have their dmg increased more percentage wise then stat based builds while still keeping the sustained pressure of procs which allows to deal with increased healing of others. Bursts are also on cooldown same as procs and some procs can be applied over and over (vMA 2h for example). Proc vs non proc effectiveness is more dictated by class balance rather then just by simply saying "stat based builds are good now".

MurderMostFoul

Two points:

Juhasow wrote: »

With increased dmg accros the board proc build will have their dmg increased more percentage wise then stat based builds

But that's the thing with this patch, damage wasn't uniformly increased across the board in no CP. Max stats and weapons / spell damage only increases the damage of your skills, not your procs, so builds which rely on stats and skills for damage will see a higher damage increase.

Juhasow wrote: »

Bursts are also on cooldown same as procs and some procs can be applied over and over (vMA 2h for example).

Yes, a very small selection of proc sets don't have to deal with cooldowns, but many do. And many others apply a DOT (unbuffed by this patch) which can now be easily out-healed. And while so many different procs are on 8 to 10 second cooldown, a Stamden can line up Sub Assault/Dizzy/Medium/Executioner two or three times, a Stamcro can do the same with BB/Dizzy/Medium/Executioner. These skill based burst combos don't have to deal with cooldowns like many, many proc combos do.

Waffennacht

Lets be fair. The loss of mist form is a huge contributor to people dying as well.

I invest far more into defense and stillncame out leagues ahead in damage.

But dont ruin their fun; im enjoying being a tank in a world of glass cannons

jtm1018

I still see proc sets dominating.
4 players with proc mowing down other players.
I guess they only remove proc sets in cyrodiil.

PhoenixGrey

BG's is a proc set simulation mode which is still full of tanks carried by proc sets so nothing's really changed. If anything, its even worse than the last time as the tanks can deal an insane amount of damage.

propertyOfUndefined

I don’t think proc sets dominate like they used to. In fact, it seems like most of the proc set users I face deal a lot of “fluff” damage that’s easily countered with HoTs and a strong offense. I’ve been very happy with the current balance.

WolfyRaps

I voice my support and I wholeheartedly agree !

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Rhaegar75

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

MurderMostFoul

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

WolfyRaps

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

MurderMostFoul

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players who are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

WolfyRaps

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players you are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

I tried Zaan on my magsorc and literally there is no difference between it and a good ald crafty alfiq. I do not use execute i just put curse on the target and spam from a distance.. The extra damage you get from the "stat build" more than makes up for the ocasional proc.. plus you get bigger shields..

MurderMostFoul

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players you are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

I tried Zaan on my magsorc and literally there is no difference between it and a good ald crafty alfiq. I do not use execute i just put curse on the target and spam from a distance.. The extra damage you get from the "stat build" more than makes up for the ocasional proc.. plus you get bigger shields..

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would put Zaan on a typical mag sorc in PvP. Maybe someone could dream up a niche set up for magsorcs with zaan, but it definitely doesn't fit with the typical implementation of their class kit.

Rhaegar75

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players you are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

I tried Zaan on my magsorc and literally there is no difference between it and a good ald crafty alfiq. I do not use execute i just put curse on the target and spam from a distance.. The extra damage you get from the "stat build" more than makes up for the ocasional proc.. plus you get bigger shields..

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would put Zaan on a typical mag sorc in PvP. Maybe someone could dream up a niche set up for magsorcs with zaan, but it definitely doesn't fit with the typical implementation of their class kit.

I agree:Zaan and MagSorcs have very little to share in my opinion

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players who are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

It's indeed the build tanky and wack on an arena weapon and zaan stance that I struggle to tolerate and shoudl be nerfed.

In general I also think that arena weapon and their synergy with procs shoudl also be looked at.

Other sets like Syvarra, Sheer, unleashed, Overhwlming are pretty annoying but not game changing unless paired with arena weapons

WolfyRaps

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

I still think that some damage proc sets and combinations require to be tuned down. .......usual suspects: Vate staff, Merciless Noob Charge related combos, Zaan etc.

The only damage procs I feel are out of line right now are zaan, caluurions, vate destro, and vate 2H. And even those haven't been that bad. But do you feel like they are slight outliers with regard to how much added burst or sustained pressure they create for such small investments.

I would agree with you but you are forgeting one thing. A Calurion, Zaan, Vate build can be used only on a glass cannon. This is the exact build that I am using on my MagBlade and despite it it is my weakest character in BG by quite a margin.. On any class I can outheal the Zaan proc or just roll away from it and Vate damage is even lower...

I see vate destro and zaan as an issue more on pressure builds. They can build tanky, but then these four items slots can allow them to do pretty significant damage.

Caluurions is definitely for a glass cannon type, primarily magsorc. But the ease of use for them coupled with the damage in return is a little out of whack. Magsorcs already mostly play on the edges, hitting players you are already engaged in fighting someone else, or otherwise unaware of them. It's not hard for one of the skills in there burst to crit, and without immediate appreciation of the pressure coming from the magsorc, that player is going to eat that burst plus a free 6K from caluurions. That 6K difference is very often enough to put the player into endless fury proc zone, causing an instant kill.

I tried Zaan on my magsorc and literally there is no difference between it and a good ald crafty alfiq. I do not use execute i just put curse on the target and spam from a distance.. The extra damage you get from the "stat build" more than makes up for the ocasional proc.. plus you get bigger shields..

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would put Zaan on a typical mag sorc in PvP. Maybe someone could dream up a niche set up for magsorcs with zaan, but it definitely doesn't fit with the typical implementation of their class kit.

I ment Calurion

WolfyRaps

On a side note, as I have played quite a lot of BGs these days and reched high mmr on almost all my characters the imbalances become aparent. My magplar, magblade and even magden and magsorc struggle unless sourounded by at least two "tanks".

Because of the nerf to light armor mag characters struggle more than ever compared to their stamina counterparts.

High rated BGs are dominated by StamDK, StamDen and StamCro.. The only mag characters i feel competitive with at high rating are MagDk and MagCro and thats because they are tanky enough themselves.

ZOS should rethink the double penalty of light armor (low base resists + more damage from martial atacks)..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

MurderMostFoul

WolfyRaps wrote: »

On a side note, as I have played quite a lot of BGs these days and reched high mmr on almost all my characters the imbalances become aparent. My magplar, magblade and even magden and magsorc struggle unless sourounded by at least two "tanks".

Because of the nerf to light armor mag characters struggle more than ever compared to their stamina counterparts.

High rated BGs are dominated by StamDK, StamDen and StamCro.. The only mag characters i feel competitive with at high rating are MagDk and MagCro and thats because they are tanky enough themselves.

ZOS should rethink the double penalty of light armor (low base resists + more damage from martial atacks)..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Don't forget magsorc, they are still top tier in BGs this patch.

WolfyRaps

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

On a side note, as I have played quite a lot of BGs these days and reched high mmr on almost all my characters the imbalances become aparent. My magplar, magblade and even magden and magsorc struggle unless sourounded by at least two "tanks".

Because of the nerf to light armor mag characters struggle more than ever compared to their stamina counterparts.

High rated BGs are dominated by StamDK, StamDen and StamCro.. The only mag characters i feel competitive with at high rating are MagDk and MagCro and thats because they are tanky enough themselves.

ZOS should rethink the double penalty of light armor (low base resists + more damage from martial atacks)..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Don't forget magsorc, they are still top tier in BGs this patch.

In open world PVP maybe.. But BG is a closed space and cant escape forever. I have Chudan on my sorc and I still feel squishy vs good stamina players in BG that I cannot burst fast either..

I really think it is a light armor problem.. The double dip vulnerability vs martial atacks is simply not fair..

gariondavey

Magsorc in bg is nutty XD. I had over 9k medal score in a deathmatch. Crit heals, kills, assists!!

WolfyRaps

gariondavey wrote: »

Magsorc in bg is nutty XD. I had over 9k medal score in a deathmatch. Crit heals, kills, assists!!

Was it high rated or against nubs ? I had 17-0 scores too but after a while u will start playing against the best StamDks and StamDens on the server and then you realize what I am talking about..

MurderMostFoul

WolfyRaps wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Magsorc in bg is nutty XD. I had over 9k medal score in a deathmatch. Crit heals, kills, assists!!

Was it high rated or against nubs ? I had 17-0 scores too but after a while u will start playing against the best StamDks and StamDens on the server and then you realize what I am talking about..

Mag Sorc is still very good, I can ball of lightning to my heart's content, on my stamsorc. Magsorcs can do it even more. Even in high MMR BGs, good magsorc well play with enough awareness and manage their resources in such a way that allows them to streak away as much as needed. That combined with the ability to lay out huge range bursts, auto execute, and large burst heals, makes them very good.

Canned_Apples

They should just make Random BGs (procs enabled) and Solo Random (cheese disabled)
That way groups and solos can still cheese it up
@ZOS_GinaBruno