Thoughts on Expanding Imperial City

nublife01

There is definitely a large community of players that love imperial city for the pvp, gold farm, and grief-ish system installed in it very similiar to the dark forest in runescape (a monumental part of runescapes success). I honestly think that adding more areas and bosses to the zone or anything of that nature in general will add a ton of endgame activity to eso that a huge part of the community will largely appreciate. If you agree please bump this post. Like seriously adding anything to this zone that doesnt take away from how it currently is would make this game that much more enjoyable in end game.

VaranisArano

Even the players who enjoy the PvPvE life in Imperial City acknowledge that the population is sorely lacking outside of the Imperial City Celebration when the double Tel Var brings all the casual players to the yard.

In short, even if the questers, the duelists, the Tel Var farmers, the gankers, the small scalers, etc. would like more areas and bosses, the PvPvE nature of Imperial City is such that it's not commonly visited by the majority of the playerbase. That's true even after ZOS gave it away for free. So it's not really the best candidate for an expansion.


Personally, I'd take away the District ownership requirements for respawning. That would make it easier for players to jump right back into the action, which promotes a faster, more brawling style of PVP.

nublife01

i mean imagine if they added to the zone in such a way that it brings back the casual players to the yard. the zone has the most lucrative gold farm in the game and i think it's heavily slept upon considering there are other large franchises that have structured a majority or entirety of their pvp around something similar to what it already is in current state.

fred4

I love Imperial City. I would play there a lot, even if Cyrodiil wasn't laggy. One reason I am in IC so much, though, is the Cyrodiil lag. During Imperial City or Midyear Mayhem events, the lag starts to creep into IC as well. Never as bad as in Cyrodiil, but still. Therefore: Would I like more players in IC? Nope. Absolutely not. We can imagine what will happen in Q3. Maybe ZOS will finally fix performance. I'll only believe it when I see it.

I'm also with Varanis. The population as a whole doesn't seem to like the place all that much. PvEers don't like being griefed. Some clamour for a PvE only version without rewards, so they can quest. I love the dual (not duel) nature of the place. Many people don't seem to.

Aside from that, much as I like the idea, no new areas are needed. The sewers are underutilized. There has been no good reason to go there for a long time. As a PvPer I might go for a 1vX, but I mostly feel like I would just grief and slaughter people near their home bases, so I don't. I seem to recall ZOS wanting to revamp the loot drops from the walking bosses and/or making mobs more difficult again, which might at least be a challenge. This has not happened.

I want to add: Turning it into it's own campaign has significantly increased the population of IC. You should have seen the place before. Undisturbed runs accumulating 100K Tel Var at a time while wearing Imperial Physique were common. These days that doesn't really happen. Bosses are overfarmed at all hours of the day. You bank way before, because you spend much more time gathering Tel Var, increasing the chance of encountering PvP that you lose.

Grimlok_S

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

I've seen increased pop since the Cyro tests began but not in a good way.. One faction inevitably stacks so many bodies on a boss rotation you can't push them off in a small group.

Which has to be frustrating on the zerg side too.. You'd get next to nothing for your efforts, as the pot is split up to 12 ways (I will never understand why groups larger than 12 are allowed in IC). The bosses drop so quick and take long enough to spawn that the only way of making meaningful gains is to stack harder on the blob and get more damage dealt to hit the top 12.

I think IC would be the perfect place to try out the mercenary mechanic we've seen brought up here so many times.

Lets pretend - A factionless IC.


When queuing into IC you can pick any of the 3 factions existing bases as your bank/safe/spawn point.
While inside the base you have the option to group with up to 6(number up for debate) or go it alone. Every person outside your group is hostile and can be killed.

This would hopefully bring back the days of solo flinging yourself into arena, and make bosses much more contested.

No farm group would be safe in numbers, since they can be pushed by any player on the map outside of their group.
This would hope to reduce the amount of dead time we see in the city where a blob of players trains through the whole place.

fred4

Grimlok_S wrote: »

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

That was when IC was new. Also we didn't have key fragments. We had 6 different types of artifacts and different mobs dropped different things. This encouraged the playerbase to spread out not just above, but also in the sewers, depending on what they were farming. Some of the best farming spots were in the sewers. Agility / Willpower / Endurance are not good incentives anymore, but still it's a bit strange they homogenized that system.

Jayserix

If we were a little bit honest we could acknowledge the main reason why IC is lacking population : it's niche.

Niche mainly because it's trash concept for PvP in a MMO, especially one like ESO where grouping is not a requirement for the majority of the content.

Juhasow

Expanding IC would be like pumping air into a flat tire. First You need to seal the hole.

nublife01

Juhasow wrote: »

Expanding IC would be like pumping air into a flat tire. First You need to seal the hole.

this makes 0 sense

nublife01

Jayserix wrote: »

If we were a little bit honest we could acknowledge the main reason why IC is lacking population : it's niche.

Niche mainly because it's trash concept for PvP in a MMO, especially one like ESO where grouping is not a requirement for the majority of the content.

how is it a trash concept if it is adapted from an MMO with a much higher player base that literally survives on this form of endgame content? your comment is hollow and lacks reasoning.

nublife01

fred4 wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

That was when IC was new. Also we didn't have key fragments. We had 6 different types of artifacts and different mobs dropped different things. This encouraged the playerbase to spread out not just above, but also in the sewers, depending on what they were farming. Some of the best farming spots were in the sewers. Agility / Willpower / Endurance are not good incentives anymore, but still it's a bit strange they homogenized that system.

hakeijo farm from telvar is the most lucrative gold farm in the game right now. so no you're wrong about what to farm in IC.

edit: also expanding IC will make it easier for casual players to take advantage of this very lucrative gold farm.

nublife01

Grimlok_S wrote: »

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

I've seen increased pop since the Cyro tests began but not in a good way.. One faction inevitably stacks so many bodies on a boss rotation you can't push them off in a small group.

Which has to be frustrating on the zerg side too.. You'd get next to nothing for your efforts, as the pot is split up to 12 ways (I will never understand why groups larger than 12 are allowed in IC). The bosses drop so quick and take long enough to spawn that the only way of making meaningful gains is to stack harder on the blob and get more damage dealt to hit the top 12.

I think IC would be the perfect place to try out the mercenary mechanic we've seen brought up here so many times.

Lets pretend - A factionless IC.


When queuing into IC you can pick any of the 3 factions existing bases as your bank/safe/spawn point.
While inside the base you have the option to group with up to 6(number up for debate) or go it alone. Every person outside your group is hostile and can be killed.

This would hopefully bring back the days of solo flinging yourself into arena, and make bosses much more contested.

No farm group would be safe in numbers, since they can be pushed by any player on the map outside of their group.
This would hope to reduce the amount of dead time we see in the city where a blob of players trains through the whole place.

companions would ruin IC. and IC is a great place for 1vX. the only way to actually promote 1vX is to get rid of the tank/proc meta that prevents it.

nublife01

fred4 wrote: »

I love Imperial City. I would play there a lot, even if Cyrodiil wasn't laggy. One reason I am in IC so much, though, is the Cyrodiil lag. During Imperial City or Midyear Mayhem events, the lag starts to creep into IC as well. Never as bad as in Cyrodiil, but still. Therefore: Would I like more players in IC? Nope. Absolutely not. We can imagine what will happen in Q3. Maybe ZOS will finally fix performance. I'll only believe it when I see it.

I'm also with Varanis. The population as a whole doesn't seem to like the place all that much. PvEers don't like being griefed. Some clamour for a PvE only version without rewards, so they can quest. I love the dual (not duel) nature of the place. Many people don't seem to.

Aside from that, much as I like the idea, no new areas are needed. The sewers are underutilized. There has been no good reason to go there for a long time. As a PvPer I might go for a 1vX, but I mostly feel like I would just grief and slaughter people near their home bases, so I don't. I seem to recall ZOS wanting to revamp the loot drops from the walking bosses and/or making mobs more difficult again, which might at least be a challenge. This has not happened.

I want to add: Turning it into it's own campaign has significantly increased the population of IC. You should have seen the place before. Undisturbed runs accumulating 100K Tel Var at a time while wearing Imperial Physique were common. These days that doesn't really happen. Bosses are overfarmed at all hours of the day. You bank way before, because you spend much more time gathering Tel Var, increasing the chance of encountering PvP that you lose.

I dont understand how bosses are overfarmed when I'm literally in IC every day and can farm 100k gold from literally 25k telvar in like an hour tops. also if they expand IC then it will be harder to overfarm.

nublife01

do any of you actually want more endgame pvp content? because i certainly do. if so please provide alternatives lmao.

Juhasow

nublife01 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Expanding IC would be like pumping air into a flat tire. First You need to seal the hole.

this makes 0 sense

Yes my whole point is that it makes zero sense.

fred4

nublife01 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

That was when IC was new. Also we didn't have key fragments. We had 6 different types of artifacts and different mobs dropped different things. This encouraged the playerbase to spread out not just above, but also in the sewers, depending on what they were farming. Some of the best farming spots were in the sewers. Agility / Willpower / Endurance are not good incentives anymore, but still it's a bit strange they homogenized that system.

hakeijo farm from telvar is the most lucrative gold farm in the game right now. so no you're wrong about what to farm in IC.

edit: also expanding IC will make it easier for casual players to take advantage of this very lucrative gold farm.

My point went towards incentivizing players to spread out and getting them back into the sewers.

fred4

nublife01 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I love Imperial City. I would play there a lot, even if Cyrodiil wasn't laggy. One reason I am in IC so much, though, is the Cyrodiil lag. During Imperial City or Midyear Mayhem events, the lag starts to creep into IC as well. Never as bad as in Cyrodiil, but still. Therefore: Would I like more players in IC? Nope. Absolutely not. We can imagine what will happen in Q3. Maybe ZOS will finally fix performance. I'll only believe it when I see it.

I'm also with Varanis. The population as a whole doesn't seem to like the place all that much. PvEers don't like being griefed. Some clamour for a PvE only version without rewards, so they can quest. I love the dual (not duel) nature of the place. Many people don't seem to.

Aside from that, much as I like the idea, no new areas are needed. The sewers are underutilized. There has been no good reason to go there for a long time. As a PvPer I might go for a 1vX, but I mostly feel like I would just grief and slaughter people near their home bases, so I don't. I seem to recall ZOS wanting to revamp the loot drops from the walking bosses and/or making mobs more difficult again, which might at least be a challenge. This has not happened.

I want to add: Turning it into it's own campaign has significantly increased the population of IC. You should have seen the place before. Undisturbed runs accumulating 100K Tel Var at a time while wearing Imperial Physique were common. These days that doesn't really happen. Bosses are overfarmed at all hours of the day. You bank way before, because you spend much more time gathering Tel Var, increasing the chance of encountering PvP that you lose.

I dont understand how bosses are overfarmed when I'm literally in IC every day and can farm 100k gold from literally 25k telvar in like an hour tops. also if they expand IC then it will be harder to overfarm.

Bosses and mobs drop the same amount of Tel Var regardless of how many players partake in a kill. The Tel Var are then shared among those players. I've played IC since it's release and I used to think it a good source of income. I suppose it still is, but just to put your figure in perspective: Players making 100K to 150K Tel Var (not gold) per hour was common in the past. Soloing or duoing bosses was common, because there were so few people around. Nowadays I'm wondering why the zerg keeps running after the bosses. I suppose there is safety in numbers other than the bombing risk, but I think you can make as much Tel Var killing mobs, let's say in Arbo, yet fewer players seem to do that.

fred4

nublife01 wrote: »

do any of you actually want more endgame pvp content? because i certainly do. if so please provide alternatives lmao.

Fixing Cyro performance has to be the first priority. Nothing else matters. Until that's fixed, I am happy that IC is a largely lag-free refuge. If it wasn't, I would stop playing. BGs aren't for me. I like open world. IC being a smaller server instance than Cyro and the relative lack of players have kept the lag down. Let's keep it that way. Expanding IC cannot possibly be a priority while you risk it becoming another lagfest. If and when lag is ever fixed then, sure, I would love an expanded IC.

fred4

@nublife01, BTW I'm on PC EU. Maybe your perspective differs, because you are on a less populated server?

Grimlok_S

nublife01 wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

The city was absolutely bumping when it was the only source of Agility/Willpower and they were relevant sets.

I've seen increased pop since the Cyro tests began but not in a good way.. One faction inevitably stacks so many bodies on a boss rotation you can't push them off in a small group.

Which has to be frustrating on the zerg side too.. You'd get next to nothing for your efforts, as the pot is split up to 12 ways (I will never understand why groups larger than 12 are allowed in IC). The bosses drop so quick and take long enough to spawn that the only way of making meaningful gains is to stack harder on the blob and get more damage dealt to hit the top 12.

I think IC would be the perfect place to try out the mercenary mechanic we've seen brought up here so many times.

Lets pretend - A factionless IC.


When queuing into IC you can pick any of the 3 factions existing bases as your bank/safe/spawn point.
While inside the base you have the option to group with up to 6(number up for debate) or go it alone. Every person outside your group is hostile and can be killed.

This would hopefully bring back the days of solo flinging yourself into arena, and make bosses much more contested.

No farm group would be safe in numbers, since they can be pushed by any player on the map outside of their group.
This would hope to reduce the amount of dead time we see in the city where a blob of players trains through the whole place.

companions would ruin IC. and IC is a great place for 1vX. the only way to actually promote 1vX is to get rid of the tank/proc meta that prevents it.

I didn't suggest companions. They've been pretty clear we won't be seeing them in PvP, which is a good thing.

You seem to have a different experience on EU.

On NA there are dead hours for sure, but "prime time" there are large groups, or enough of a population disparity that one faction stacks on a boss rotation with no reason to ever split up. This trades back and forth between which faction has 2 bar pop to the other faction's 1 bar.. I don't even bother sticking around if I port in and see my faction has all the districts.

My suggestion was to remove the safety of factions/zergs from IC. Free-for-all/No-Faction IC would mean farmers need to risk PvP, rather than hiding in a safety in numbers scenario.

Solo bombing works, usually once or twice. But soon as the zerg group is aware and all holding block on doors/flags/boss kills there isn't much you can do as a solo bomber.

Jayserix

nublife01 wrote: »

Jayserix wrote: »

If we were a little bit honest we could acknowledge the main reason why IC is lacking population : it's niche.

Niche mainly because it's trash concept for PvP in a MMO, especially one like ESO where grouping is not a requirement for the majority of the content.

how is it a trash concept if it is adapted from an MMO with a much higher player base that literally survives on this form of endgame content? your comment is hollow and lacks reasoning.

You know you can edit your posts right ?

And again, you are comparing apples with oranges here. IC is bad ... Why is it only popular when there are events ?