Most Surprising Sets ZOS Considers Procs?

silvereyes

It took me a minute to figure out why my Ring of the Wild Hunt wasn't working in Cyrodill today, then I remembered the proc sets test. I'm quite surprised that this set is considered a proc for the purposes of this test.

Current movement speed could be adjusted whenever combat is entered or left, or the ring is equipped or unequipped. There shouldn't need to be any continuous check every tick.

What were some other sets that people were surprised by the developers considering them a proc set? Could any of their checks be rewritten to work in a no-proc campaign?

silvereyes

One also has to wonder if there are abilities or buffs that could be rewritten in a similar way. For example, mounting or sprinting buffs one's speed. After Update 29 goes live, there will also be a Major Gallop buff granted passively by Continuous Attack. It shouldn't have to constantly ask, "am I mounted?" or, "am I sprinting?" every tick to make all these speed adjustments. It could theoretically make them just whenever the mounting or sprinting starts or stops.

emilyhyoyeon

Akaviri dragonguard, where the 5 pieces reduces the costs of ults by 15%

Ackwalan

Anything that required a check was considered a proc. For the ring, the bonus is different for in combat or out, so there was a check.

jaws343

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Akaviri dragonguard, where the 5 pieces reduces the costs of ults by 15%

This set has to check the current cost of your ultimate to apply cost reduction. Which could be reduced by a number of means.

If the set removed 25 ultimate cost from your ultimates it wouldn't be an issue. But since it is a percentage reduction that amount varies and it acts as a check on the server.

silvereyes

Ackwalan wrote: »

Anything that required a check was considered a proc. For the ring, the bonus is different for in combat or out, so there was a check.

Oh, I understand the explanation of why they consider it a proc. I was just surprised that they coded it that way.

erio

I always thought of procs as stuff like venomous smite or unfathomable. Was sad to see my clever alch and briarheart go.

Dojohoda

I suppose that reduced cost sets are procs is the biggest surprise to me. I learned something new.

Minnesinger

I don´t know if Seducer is any problem. Test is a test. And thrutfully the lag has been a major issue. Maybe they can fix it. At the same time, we should consider what effect this set ban has in the economy. PvP rewards are mainly the sets that are currently unplayable as well as many other sets that can be bought with AP. I already noticed a decline in my sales. People are fended off with the uncertainty of the future. Hope, they soon announce if this test will be the model for Cyro rework or not.

Sluggy

silvereyes wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Anything that required a check was considered a proc. For the ring, the bonus is different for in combat or out, so there was a check.

Oh, I understand the explanation of why they consider it a proc. I was just surprised that they coded it that way.

There's really no other way to code it. It has to react to when you enter or leave combat.

Artim_X

Mighty Chudan surprised me, since it's always active and just gives you a permanent major armor buff.

Chilly-McFreeze

I was running around with pelinal's for a while. Thought it's the rust after returning. But to my surprise Pelinal's won't even work. Always thought of it as a stat set since it doesn't directly proc on certain events but works constantly.

Dagoth_Rac

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I was running around with pelinal's for a while. Thought it's the rust after returning. But to my surprise Pelinal's won't even work. Always thought of it as a stat set since it doesn't directly proc on certain events but works constantly.

It is checking to see which of weapon/spell damage is higher, then adjusting the other. Since lots of things like buffs and debuffs and passives and potions and poisons and glyphs and bar swapping can make your weapon/spell damage change, it has to keep checking which is higher, how high it is at this moment, and adjust the other to match. Pelinal's has 100% uptime, but the exact stats you are getting can be constantly changing.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Bright-throat - 5 pieces provides bonus to magicka recovery under condition that drink buff is active. Not really a surprise as I knew it's not going to work however still this is magicka recovery that we are talking about here.

Chilly-McFreeze

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I was running around with pelinal's for a while. Thought it's the rust after returning. But to my surprise Pelinal's won't even work. Always thought of it as a stat set since it doesn't directly proc on certain events but works constantly.

It is checking to see which of weapon/spell damage is higher, then adjusting the other. Since lots of things like buffs and debuffs and passives and potions and poisons and glyphs and bar swapping can make your weapon/spell damage change, it has to keep checking which is higher, how high it is at this moment, and adjust the other to match. Pelinal's has 100% uptime, but the exact stats you are getting can be constantly changing.

Makes sense. Was just funny that I didn't even thought of it as a proc and ran around with a non-fuctioning set for a while. In general it' reminds me that proc sets make up the absolute most of available sets in this game, especially considering the always ongoing proc set discussions.

Jackey

Those sets that add spell or weapon damage to certain damage types or skill lines.
Such as Silks of the sun, War maiden and Sword-singer.

I'm not a coder but it sounds really inefficient if those sets have to check every time you cast an ability.

Tommy_The_Gun

Night's Silence:
https://eso-sets.com/set/nights-silence

(5 items) Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.

Because on PTS on advanced UI you can clearly see that this set simply sets your sneak speed to normal value. It does not matter if you are sneaking or not - the sneak speed is always the same.

It must have some kind of hidden server check... poor coding I guess.

Ringod123

The fact that 18 sets in the game are the only sets that are not classed as procs go's to show how bad the coding has been for everything that was added on top of the original base game.
Sets that have to ask the server EVERY SECOND if you still have a drink buff active etc show that ZOS have just been throwing crap code at the game engine and if it sticks, they leave it.
Add this to moving a ton of calculations server side (in update 25) to cut down on the number of cheaters they have to deal with and it's very very obvious where our performance went in the last few years, but yet ZOS are seemingly only willing to invent daft tests that they force onto live servers to try and claw back some performance, rather than actually undo the stupid decision that lead to all that code being moved server side in the first place as well as rewriting all of the awful code they have shoehorned into the original engine instead of writing it properly first time or even rewriting systems to properly support the new skills/abilities etc.

Clearly these decisions are more about getting more profit to shareholders rather than a better experience for paying players.

Sluggy

Ringod123 wrote: »

The fact that 18 sets in the game are the only sets that are not classed as procs go's to show how bad the coding has been for everything that was added on top of the original base game.
Sets that have to ask the server EVERY SECOND if you still have a drink buff active etc show that ZOS have just been throwing crap code at the game engine and if it sticks, they leave it.
Add this to moving a ton of calculations server side (in update 25) to cut down on the number of cheaters they have to deal with and it's very very obvious where our performance went in the last few years, but yet ZOS are seemingly only willing to invent daft tests that they force onto live servers to try and claw back some performance, rather than actually undo the stupid decision that lead to all that code being moved server side in the first place as well as rewriting all of the awful code they have shoehorned into the original engine instead of writing it properly first time or even rewriting systems to properly support the new skills/abilities etc.

Clearly these decisions are more about getting more profit to shareholders rather than a better experience for paying players.

Was it stated somewhere that sets like that *are* in fact checking every second? If so, I agree that would not be a scalable solution for a game with many players. However, unless it was specifically stated, I'd be more likely to believe such checks would only occur when the stats in question change, causing an event to be raised to which the set would then react.

RinaldoGandolphi

The solution to most of these issues are:

1. Write netcode in udp and abandon the tcp net idea they are now using.

Or

2. Move the calculations back to the client side and invest in an anti-cheat software like punkbuster/vanguard/Valve Anti cheat/etc.

Two makes the most sense financially and would fix performance considerably. Question why have they not attempted this yet?

Ringod123

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The solution to most of these issues are:

1. Write netcode in udp and abandon the tcp net idea they are now using.

Or

2. Move the calculations back to the client side and invest in an anti-cheat software like punkbuster/vanguard/Valve Anti cheat/etc.

Two makes the most sense financially and would fix performance considerably. Question why have they not attempted this yet?

Bottom line profits for shareholders.

silvereyes

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The solution to most of these issues are:

1. Write netcode in udp and abandon the tcp net idea they are now using.

Or

2. Move the calculations back to the client side and invest in an anti-cheat software like punkbuster/vanguard/Valve Anti cheat/etc.

Two makes the most sense financially and would fix performance considerably. Question why have they not attempted this yet?

Is there any anti-cheat software that plays nicely on Mac, PC, Stadia, XBox and PS? That sounds like a huge can of worms.

Kwoung

Sluggy wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

The fact that 18 sets in the game are the only sets that are not classed as procs go's to show how bad the coding has been for everything that was added on top of the original base game.
Sets that have to ask the server EVERY SECOND if you still have a drink buff active etc show that ZOS have just been throwing crap code at the game engine and if it sticks, they leave it.
Add this to moving a ton of calculations server side (in update 25) to cut down on the number of cheaters they have to deal with and it's very very obvious where our performance went in the last few years, but yet ZOS are seemingly only willing to invent daft tests that they force onto live servers to try and claw back some performance, rather than actually undo the stupid decision that lead to all that code being moved server side in the first place as well as rewriting all of the awful code they have shoehorned into the original engine instead of writing it properly first time or even rewriting systems to properly support the new skills/abilities etc.

Clearly these decisions are more about getting more profit to shareholders rather than a better experience for paying players.

Was it stated somewhere that sets like that *are* in fact checking every second? If so, I agree that would not be a scalable solution for a game with many players. However, unless it was specifically stated, I'd be more likely to believe such checks would only occur when the stats in question change, causing an event to be raised to which the set would then react.

I recall they said something along the lines of many of these sets have to check every time you cast a skill or perform a particular action, which is pretty much every second when you are in combat. Personally I agree, it sounds like bad coding, but I have no idea what the underlying systems they have to deal with are like and the chances of them rewriting the entire underpinnings of the game at this point are slim to none.

Claire

Artim_X wrote: »

Mighty Chudan surprised me, since it's always active and just gives you a permanent major armor buff.

Similarly, Rattlecage with Major Sorcery in its 5th piece bonus.

Vetixio

They should remove all damaging proc sets from Cyrodiil and only keep Vicious Death as it is arguably the only skill based proc set. They need to reprogram all the other sets that are counted as 'procs' like Seducer, Rattlecage, Akaviri Dragonguard etc. Its honestly bad programming/coding that all those sets are counted as 'procs' they should implement them as permanent buffs/bonuses to the user and hopefully that way Cyrodiil would be more skill based again.

Vevvev

Sluggy wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

The fact that 18 sets in the game are the only sets that are not classed as procs go's to show how bad the coding has been for everything that was added on top of the original base game.
Sets that have to ask the server EVERY SECOND if you still have a drink buff active etc show that ZOS have just been throwing crap code at the game engine and if it sticks, they leave it.
Add this to moving a ton of calculations server side (in update 25) to cut down on the number of cheaters they have to deal with and it's very very obvious where our performance went in the last few years, but yet ZOS are seemingly only willing to invent daft tests that they force onto live servers to try and claw back some performance, rather than actually undo the stupid decision that lead to all that code being moved server side in the first place as well as rewriting all of the awful code they have shoehorned into the original engine instead of writing it properly first time or even rewriting systems to properly support the new skills/abilities etc.

Clearly these decisions are more about getting more profit to shareholders rather than a better experience for paying players.

Was it stated somewhere that sets like that *are* in fact checking every second? If so, I agree that would not be a scalable solution for a game with many players. However, unless it was specifically stated, I'd be more likely to believe such checks would only occur when the stats in question change, causing an event to be raised to which the set would then react.

Well if how they admitted that the original CP system is doing 30-60 checks for every single action you do it wouldn't surprise me if these sets are doing similar checks.

Jaraal

Healer's Habit, where the 5th piece bonus is permanent Minor Mending (+8% to healing done). The bonus actually worked for a few days during the test, but they stealth patched it.

Look.... Blessed CP (scaling % to healing done), Ritual stone (scaling % to healing done) Nightblade passive (+3% to healing done for each Siphoning skill slotted), Argonian racial passive (+6% to healing done), and other +% to healing done checks all have to be performed when you cast a heal....... but 8% from a "proc" set is unacceptable? Give me a break.

Jayserix

silvereyes wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The solution to most of these issues are:

1. Write netcode in udp and abandon the tcp net idea they are now using.

Or

2. Move the calculations back to the client side and invest in an anti-cheat software like punkbuster/vanguard/Valve Anti cheat/etc.

Two makes the most sense financially and would fix performance considerably. Question why have they not attempted this yet?

Is there any anti-cheat software that plays nicely on Mac, PC, Stadia, XBox and PS? That sounds like a huge can of worms.

I guess they could make the change for PC, and leave the consoles as they're. We'll be the testers again but at least it'll easier to see the results.

geonsocal

dang, this is crazy...by any chance- does anyone have a list of what still works?

TwinLamps

trainee
shacklebreaker
hundings rage
might of julianos

Jaraal

geonsocal wrote: »

dang, this is crazy...by any chance- does anyone have a list of what still works?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561180/feb-15-cyrodiil-test-details/p1