Performance still bad, but gameplay is much better! Post your thoughts!

relentless_turnip

In terms of lag, skill delay etc... It is just as terrible as yesterday, maybe slightly better but it's pretty hard to be objective and dismiss all wishful thinking and pessimism equally.

Gameplay is so much more fun. Between the lag we had many great fights.

I don't care if removing proc sets fixes performance. I just want to remain in a game where my button presses matter. Where builds are balanced between offence, defence and recovery.

Rework the sets that provided conditional stat boosts (if necessary) and please keep any sets that gave free damage/healing out of PvP. Buff them if you like make them useful for pve, but keep them out of PvP.

This is my opinion of what good, competitive PvP looks and feels like. I would love to hear others thoughts and experiences.

kapachia

Lag is infinitely better. Only time I noticed a lag was with a ball group in resource tower. It was less noticeable in the forte/keep against ball group when everyone was spread out more.

Definitely 12 proximity deton, boneyard, rapid regen, and elemental storm spamming ball group did cause lag. Even those it was easier to dodge roll out whereas I would have been lagged to death before.

All in all, much better performance even with pop locked PC/NA Gray Host. Currently even Ravenwatch and Blackreach are pop locked. So basically it is under heavier load than even PvP on weekday evening in NA.

I hope ZOS will experiment with allowing one procs set per toon (down from possible 3-4 procs) instead of killing off entire procs set. So instead of server calculating 3-4 proc sets per toons, it can calculate only 1 set per toons. If EOS hardware and software cannot even handle 1 proc set calculation / toon in Cyrodiil, a performance should be prioritized over diversity.

Maybe ZOS can find a happy medium between improved performance and diversity with limited proc sets.


EDIT and UPDATE:

Ok.. After being on PC/NA Gray Host for whole evening, I am experiencing two different results.

In smaller group conflicts without siege weapons, server lag/performance is much better.

In large keep/forte siege conflict with numerous siege weapons, lag/performance is soooo bad. Absolutely no improvement what so ever. Whatever performance gain from no-proc set is completely lost in a large siege battle.

I just don't think either ESO hardware/server (even if ZOS says it is not a bottleneck) or underlying game codes/NET codes are up to par for this game design.

Ahk1lleez

The performance doesn't seem to be any better for me, but I agree that combat is much better with stat based sets.

I'd like to see all pvp sets reworked. Those from ROTW, elite vendors and specialized gear vendors. PVP sets would only be able to be used in pvp zones.

I'd like to see something like

Fury
2 pieces : Adds 1096 health and 1028 Stamina
3 pieces : Adds 1028 Stamina and 1028 Magicka
4 pieces : Adds 1028 Stamina and 1028 Magicka
5 pieces: Adds 300 weapon damage and 129 Stamina recovery.

With all the sets available inside Cyrodiil, there would be endless combinations to make build diversity a thing while not allowing for free damage through proc sets.

Qbiken

Agree. Gameplay wise I really enjoyed myself yesterday, but in terms of performance it was a dumpsterfire like I haven't seen in a long time.

Kwoung

I am on BR, it was pop locked as well, but performance was 1000x better than during MYM.

Kwoung

Oh, forgot to add, I am having a blast! People die, the PVP is super fun and even my limited "skillz" are helping... sure I die a lot, but I am taking a lot of folks with me now. I may even start taking the kill 40 player quests, as I finished one in under 2 hours, and they were previously undoable and just wasted a quest slot.

techyeshic

Gameplay was a lot better. Lag; not so much. There was a lot of queues though; on a Monday. Could have something to do with it. Some people excited for no procs maybe? Some for cross healing happy to return. Double AP?

Sarousse

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

relentless_turnip

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Ranger209

For the most part things ran smooth for me. There was one point where the hammer was going, and I was in a fight involving a ball group within a big stack fighting against another big stack that got a laggy. Later there was also a big fight at Ash with all 3 factions there where the slow walk was happening. You could still target and fire off skills and all of that worked. To me this is a step up. I think it means everyone is still synced with the server and it is putting people where it thinks they should be. That is a step up from being desynced, running around freely, but nothing working. Break free worked way better.

The actual combat was way more fun. It seemed like peoples health bars were moving, and fluctuating a lot more. Skills seemed to do more appropriate damage. It just felt better combat wise. Honestly, I haven't had that much fun in Cyrodiil in about 2 or 3 years.

I really hope they develop PvP gear as a result of this with very limited ways to modify it. I am a believer that gear progression should by and large be left to the PvE'ers. That is what PvE end game progression is all about, do a dungeon, get the gear that strengthens you to do the next dungeon, do that dungeon, get the gear that allows you to do the next dungeon, rinse, repeat. PvP is a lot easier to balance when there aren't millions of possible gear combinations. Yes theory crafting for PvP can be fun with all of those sets, but it makes the actual playing the game less fun.

relentless_turnip

Ranger209 wrote: »

For the most part things ran smooth for me. There was one point where the hammer was going, and I was in a fight involving a ball group within a big stack fighting against another big stack that got a laggy. Later there was also a big fight at Ash with all 3 factions there where the slow walk was happening. You could still target and fire off skills and all of that worked. To me this is a step up. I think it means everyone is still synced with the server and it is putting people where it thinks they should be. That is a step up from being desynced, running around freely, but nothing working. Break free worked way better.

The actual combat was way more fun. It seemed like peoples health bars were moving, and fluctuating a lot more. Skills seemed to do more appropriate damage. It just felt better combat wise. Honestly, I haven't had that much fun in Cyrodiil in about 2 or 3 years.

I really hope they develop PvP gear as a result of this with very limited ways to modify it. I am a believer that gear progression should by and large be left to the PvE'ers. That is what PvE end game progression is all about, do a dungeon, get the gear that strengthens you to do the next dungeon, do that dungeon, get the gear that allows you to do the next dungeon, rinse, repeat. PvP is a lot easier to balance when there aren't millions of possible gear combinations. Yes theory crafting for PvP can be fun with all of those sets, but it makes the actual playing the game less fun.

I Agree largely with this sentiment.
I do think gear that enhances your stats upon a condition is still good for PvP. I do believe you can have strong build diversity and enjoyable PvP.

Free damage/healing has no place in a PvP. It is uncompetitive and encourages people to stack health and kill people while healing and weaving....

Faulgor

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

VaranisArano

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Well, nobody in PVE endgame, perhaps.

My Stam Warden has been questing while running Pillar of Nirn, Venomous Smite, and Velidreth for the pure amusement factor of starting her rotation with Cliff Racer, Sub Assault, Charge, then Reverse Slice, only to have her enemies at dying or dead from all the procs before she finishes her charge.

It's not a serious build. It's just plain fun!

I'm not against a redesign, exactly, but "nobody uses them" is an overly broad brush.

relentless_turnip

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Buff them for pve then... Make them crit, they don't have any place in a player versus player environment imo.

MinnesotaKid

We had a 1/2 dozen of us out in PC/NA/GH during prime last night.

The Good: No procs are fantastic for combat! Those in our group concur, the no proc test needs to become the meta.

The Bad: We still experienced significant lag, rubber banding, and de-sync's when fighting in or around keeps.
Field fights were a bit sketchy but doable.

The Ugly: There's still a disconnect issue happening. We had several member DC with the lobby error and of course the server reported them as already logged in when they tried to re-connect.
This last one is the most frustrating and we ended up wrapping up early because of it.

In conclusion, this is NOT the smoking gun for lag and the other problems in cyro but we sure loved fighting no-proc.

Ringod123

This test already proved a failure within 6 hours of it starting (at least on Gray Host EU), performance felt slightly (about 5-10%) better when no enemies were around, the recent sprint lag which has generally been around 2-4 seconds during busy times was down to around 0.5 seconds, BUT, as soon as more than just a couple of enemies were around, ALL of the issues came straight back, being hit with 3-4GCD's of abilities all at once, only able to fire off 1 ability every 3 seconds if im lucky, sprint having a 2-4 second lag, arrow abilities leaving me standing with my arms in the air for up to 8 seconds before deciding it just wasn't going to fire while the same enemy i'm targeting has no issues hitting me with 3 times as many abilities per second than the game allows him to cast. Then there was a defence at Brin where ALL AD sieges stopped working for about 10 seconds while DC's all worked fine, a defence at Alessia where as soon as 15-20 EP showed up, EVERY SINGLE AD in the area got the slo mo bug while EP were still running around normally.

Within 1 day the test has proven useless, but we have to endure it for 3 weeks?

Ranger209

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

If they remove them from PvP they can redesign them to be more relevant in PvE.

master_vanargand

I recently suspect that NPC are the cause of lag.
When many people gather in the place where NPCs are, the server becomes heavy.
I don't know the reason, but experience shows that.

techyeshic

Ringod123 wrote: »

This test already proved a failure within 6 hours of it starting (at least on Gray Host EU), performance felt slightly (about 5-10%) better when no enemies were around, the recent sprint lag which has generally been around 2-4 seconds during busy times was down to around 0.5 seconds, BUT, as soon as more than just a couple of enemies were around, ALL of the issues came straight back, being hit with 3-4GCD's of abilities all at once, only able to fire off 1 ability every 3 seconds if im lucky, sprint having a 2-4 second lag, arrow abilities leaving me standing with my arms in the air for up to 8 seconds before deciding it just wasn't going to fire while the same enemy i'm targeting has no issues hitting me with 3 times as many abilities per second than the game allows him to cast. Then there was a defence at Brin where ALL AD sieges stopped working for about 10 seconds while DC's all worked fine, a defence at Alessia where as soon as 15-20 EP showed up, EVERY SINGLE AD in the area got the slo mo bug while EP were still running around normally.

Within 1 day the test has proven useless, but we have to endure it for 3 weeks?

Thats a glass half empty approach. I prefer to look at it as "Enjoy it for 3 weeks."

CSose

It's nice to see how lacking in skill the troll tank and WW builds are, but the test is doing very little to address any other issues. Balance is a bit better now, but lag and disconnects actually seem a bit worse now.

Kiash

Performance was the same or worse, I don't care either way about proc sets but they should of at least given PvP'ers some gear or gold to test the changes with. Getting tired of making a new armor set every 2 months while they try to figure out why the lag is horrid.

Faulgor

VaranisArano wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Well, nobody in PVE endgame, perhaps.

My Stam Warden has been questing while running Pillar of Nirn, Venomous Smite, and Velidreth for the pure amusement factor of starting her rotation with Cliff Racer, Sub Assault, Charge, then Reverse Slice, only to have her enemies at dying or dead from all the procs before she finishes her charge.

It's not a serious build. It's just plain fun!

I'm not against a redesign, exactly, but "nobody uses them" is an overly broad brush.

Fair enough, I was talking about endgame PvE. In overland, you can equip just about anything. :P
I love my Defiler set that spawns a cute little Hunger so much ... but I know I can't really use it for vet dungeons in good conscience when I have better sets available to help my group.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Buff them for pve then... Make them crit, they don't have any place in a player versus player environment imo.

That has been a long-time suggestion, to just make them scale and crit with your offensive stats, which would make them easier to balance against stat-based sets and unappealing for heavy armor builds as well.

But I gotta ask, why do they have no place in PvP? Because it's "free damage"? If so, should we ban enchantments and poisons from PvP as well?

relentless_turnip

Faulgor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Well, nobody in PVE endgame, perhaps.

My Stam Warden has been questing while running Pillar of Nirn, Venomous Smite, and Velidreth for the pure amusement factor of starting her rotation with Cliff Racer, Sub Assault, Charge, then Reverse Slice, only to have her enemies at dying or dead from all the procs before she finishes her charge.

It's not a serious build. It's just plain fun!

I'm not against a redesign, exactly, but "nobody uses them" is an overly broad brush.

Fair enough, I was talking about endgame PvE. In overland, you can equip just about anything. :P
I love my Defiler set that spawns a cute little Hunger so much ... but I know I can't really use it for vet dungeons in good conscience when I have better sets available to help my group.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

I agree with this totally. I like the sets that give you stats under conditions. Free damage and healing can remain in PVE land. It's totally uncompetitive.

Build diversity is one of the things I would rate highest in ESO and theory crafting is something I do a lot. For the moment I am enjoying not playing a toxic meta.

Nobody uses damage proc sets in PvE, though. They can't crit and don't scale with your offensive stats, so they are generally a damage loss - except for Releqen that is. If you remove them from PvP you might as well remove them from the game.
I'd rather they get a redesign.

Buff them for pve then... Make them crit, they don't have any place in a player versus player environment imo.

That has been a long-time suggestion, to just make them scale and crit with your offensive stats, which would make them easier to balance against stat-based sets and unappealing for heavy armor builds as well.

But I gotta ask, why do they have no place in PvP? Because it's "free damage"? If so, should we ban enchantments and poisons from PvP as well?

Enchantments add a minut amount of damage. As in if you lost a duel you wouldn't go "oh it's because my weapon wasn't charged". They do not tooltip for the amount of someone's health bar or twice their health bar in many cases. I made a joke build for a thread on here that did tooltipped for 80k worth of damage from one gap closer on a build that had 50k health.

You're argument is a bit like me saying "a hurricane destroyed my house" and you saying "oh I suppose you have a problem with a breeze?"

I was an advocate for them to scale with offensive stats, but playing without them my views are now more extreme. I think they make a mockery of any competitive environment.

spacefracking

My lag was significantly better. My benchmark is to see whether the Merciless Resolve bow-proc (Assassin's Will), goes off on the first try. The performance was *much* better.

zaria

Sarousse wrote: »

Lag was awful, even worse.

But gameplay wise, it was better, but it felt so... old. Déjà vu.

As devs introduced new mechanics through sets, even if I don't like it, I have to admit that it brought diversity (for me sets should never do damage).

This test really shows how they have to work hard to create new skill lines to bring back diversity instead of abusing of proc sets.

ESO without diversity in combat isn't... ESO.

Performance might be a bit better, but dropped down past 30 fps trying to take screenshots of the epic siege
We was at siege cap and the wall was lined with sieges, some stole my trebuchet so just ran around ressing people.
Awesome fight and faster than expected as the troll tanks are dead.
Wait they all went to IC Who we learned later.

Minalan

I’ve mentioned it elsewhere, but I quit the game a year ago and came back just for the no-proc test.

The game is *fun* again. Please keep it this way in the main campaign. Free damage and healing proc sets need to go, keep Imperial City “free for all” if you must.

If the main campaign remains proc-free, I might have to keep playing and buy all of the expansions I missed. Darn it ZOS, you did one amazing and smart thing. Keep it!

CSose

Balance is better, but the game is unplayable with this degree of lag. Nothing works until seconds after the buttons are pushed if ever.

Every time ZOS does a test the community, deservingly, loses more confidence in the company.

kijima

Balnce is good as everyone has said, but lag is still the real MVP.

NotTaylorSwift

lag is worse, didnt think it could be possible