Arctic blast v Honour the dead

Syiccal

So when can my magplar expect something on this level, I currently have a more expensive skill, that doesn't do 1/5 of what Arctic blast does.
Arctic Blast
Big burst heal
Health over time
Stun
Damage

HtD
burst heal
18% cost recovery

Taleof2Cities

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

Syiccal

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

Oh you mean the healing skill set...hmmmmm

BohnT2

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

That is wrong, Zos has taken years now where they wanted to standardize skills across all classes.
Arctic blast does way more than many other skills while Zos has removed many "unnecessary" buffs/debuffs and secondary effects from multiple skills so they'd fall in line with other skills.

Your bromides have never helped any discussion so please refer from posting in discussions that you have nothing to add to.

Arctic blast is overloaded in so many ways, first of all the damage over time effect is actually stronger than most other dots, significantly stronger even.
The heal scaling with HP results in much higher healing numbers than other non Hp based heals while also granting a heal over time.

None of this would be an issue if Zos hadn't decided to mess with all other skills that are bow gimped compared to Arctic blast, but Zos has pushed their agenda repeating their idea of standardization and there is not a single reason why Arctic blast and warden in general should escape from it

lolo_01b16_ESO

I don't think you can compare those two skills, they are completely different.
Arctic blast is a self defense option scaling with max hp, similar to Deaden Pain + Scythe on a Necro or the Clannfear on a Sorc.
HtD is a ranged burst heal, scaling with spell damage and max magicka.

I agree, that high hp templers could need a buff compared to other classes, but in my opinion it's better to take the existing hp scaling defensive skill, Blazing Shield, and rework it to be useful again instead of trying to mess with skills that are desinged to be used by dedicated healers.

WreckfulAbandon

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

If by "choose a playstyle" you mean "play ESO at all" then I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Taleof2Cities

Syiccal wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

Oh you mean the healing skill set...hmmmmm

Magicka Templar PvP DPS is not the only role in the game, @Syiccal ... I don't think that's breaking news.

Syiccal

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

Oh you mean the healing skill set...hmmmmm

Magicka Templar PvP DPS is not the only role in the game, @Syiccal ... I don't think that's breaking news.

I'm confused..I'm talking about a heal that templar has compared to warden. Nothing to do with dps.. templars heals cost more and do alot less as they havnt been updated in forever and are no surpassed by other class heals. So for the OG healing class to have some of the worst magika heals is bit of laugh

Moonsorrow

Arctic Blast should scale with max mag/spell dmg stats instead of being a hp% heal that can be made really fat with proper modifiers, with such other functions on top as it has.. way overtuned skill compared to any other skill. And i do not say such often.

Ariades_swe

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

Wardern main alert!

idk

I do not see a worthy comparison. The text provided does not tell us anything such as heal strength vs cost when geared similarly, and such. It is just text in a vacuum and I am not going to bother doing the work OP chose to not provide.

Syiccal

Ha, it doesn't need providing everyone knows arcric blast is cheaper and does a *** tone more than honour the dead. It scales from max health instead of spell dmg and has far more benefits

KuroyukiESO

Oh boy, now this is a thread I can get behind. Let's start with honor the dead, shall we?

-Almost 5k Cost
-Maybe an 8k non crit heal if you build an ungodly amount of spell damage and max
-No auxillary effects aside from a couple hundred mag return if used at low hp, and a minute amount of scaling when hp is low thanks to a passive

Now let's take a look at acrtic, shall we?

-Costs 600 less magicka
-Scales off max hp, so you don't even have to build into healing to use this effectively
-Gives 500 extra armor through a warden passive
-Does respectable AOE damage
-The damage it does is frost, which, through passives that warden has, has a pretty high chance of applying "Chilled" to targets, which gives minor maim, effectively giving warden another source of % mitigation readily available
-AOE Stun, great for defense
-Is not only a burst heal, but also a heal over time, giving them the ability to offensive while the HOT keeps them topped off

So, to make a long story short, Arctic is 10x better than honor the dead. Honestly, if you play magplar in 2020 and still rely on Honor as your primary skill, you are just gimping yourself. And for the love of Talos, don't even get me started on the rest of the templar healing, because we'll be here all day.

In conclusion, Arctic doesn't just outperform Honor, it outperforms literally every other defensive/healing skill in the game, on top of wardens already stacked survivability kit.

Tldr. Arctic is busted, Honor is depressingly bad

Ariades_swe

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

Oh boy, now this is a thread I can get behind. Let's start with honor the dead, shall we?

-Almost 5k Cost
-Maybe an 8k non crit heal if you build an ungodly amount of spell damage and max
-No auxillary effects aside from a couple hundred mag return if used at low hp, and a minute amount of scaling when hp is low thanks to a passive

Now let's take a look at acrtic, shall we?

-Costs 600 less magicka
-Scales off max hp, so you don't even have to build into healing to use this effectively
-Gives 500 extra armor through a warden passive
-Does respectable AOE damage
-The damage it does is frost, which, through passives that warden has, has a pretty high chance of applying "Chilled" to targets, which gives minor maim, effectively giving warden another source of % mitigation readily available
-AOE Stun, great for defense
-Is not only a burst heal, but also a heal over time, giving them the ability to offensive while the HOT keeps them topped off

So, to make a long story short, Arctic is 10x better than honor the dead. Honestly, if you play magplar in 2020 and still rely on Honor as your primary skill, you are just gimping yourself. And for the love of Talos, don't even get me started on the rest of the templar healing, because we'll be here all day.

In conclusion, Arctic doesn't just outperform Honor, it outperforms literally every other defensive/healing skill in the game, on top of wardens already stacked survivability kit.

Tldr. Arctic is busted, Honor is depressingly bad

Spot on!
I missed your twitchstream the last few days btw😢😢
Need my daily fix! 😆😅🤣

/Alcheon-

Husan

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

Oh boy, now this is a thread I can get behind. Let's start with honor the dead, shall we?

-Almost 5k Cost
-Maybe an 8k non crit heal if you build an ungodly amount of spell damage and max
-No auxillary effects aside from a couple hundred mag return if used at low hp, and a minute amount of scaling when hp is low thanks to a passive

Now let's take a look at acrtic, shall we?

-Costs 600 less magicka
-Scales off max hp, so you don't even have to build into healing to use this effectively
-Gives 500 extra armor through a warden passive
-Does respectable AOE damage
-The damage it does is frost, which, through passives that warden has, has a pretty high chance of applying "Chilled" to targets, which gives minor maim, effectively giving warden another source of % mitigation readily available
-AOE Stun, great for defense
-Is not only a burst heal, but also a heal over time, giving them the ability to offensive while the HOT keeps them topped off

So, to make a long story short, Arctic is 10x better than honor the dead. Honestly, if you play magplar in 2020 and still rely on Honor as your primary skill, you are just gimping yourself. And for the love of Talos, don't even get me started on the rest of the templar healing, because we'll be here all day.

In conclusion, Arctic doesn't just outperform Honor, it outperforms literally every other defensive/healing skill in the game, on top of wardens already stacked survivability kit.

Tldr. Arctic is busted, Honor is depressingly bad

To add to all that: don't forget scaling out of health also means it's usable for both stamina and magicka builds. While templar heals all scale from magicka so stamplar has no viable class heal options.

montiferus

BohnT2 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Not all classes are made the same, @Syiccal.

Templars have other advantages compared to Warden for other playstyles ... you just happened to choose a playstyle where the Warden skillset is better than Templar.

That is wrong, Zos has taken years now where they wanted to standardize skills across all classes.
Arctic blast does way more than many other skills while Zos has removed many "unnecessary" buffs/debuffs and secondary effects from multiple skills so they'd fall in line with other skills.

Your bromides have never helped any discussion so please refer from posting in discussions that you have nothing to add to.

If I could hit the agree button 1000 times I would. The amount of inaccurate/irrelevant information is staggering.

Syiccal

The fact that wardens literally don't need to build into damage or stam to have great sustain and heals when every other class has to shows how over tuned it is

the1andonlyskwex

Apples vs oranges. You can't compare health scaling heals to mag scaling heals, they're intended for completely different builds and roles.

That said, health scaling heals are problematic in both PvP and PvE. In PvP they reinforce the tank meta by allowing one person to have high burst resistance (due to high health) and high health sustain (due to health scaling heals) at the same time. In PvE, they devalue healers, because they allow tanks to heal themselves.

Joy_Division

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

Husan

Joy_Division wrote: »

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree with you completely but let's get our facts straight: if it's anyone who stole breath of life it was sorcs with matriarch. It's literally the same, but better

the1andonlyskwex

Husan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree with you completely but let's get our facts straight: if it's anyone who stole breath of life it was sorcs with matriarch. It's literally the same, but better

Matriarch definitely isn't better than old BoL in PvP or solo content. The fact that the Matriarch can die and leave you without your burst heal is a big problem.

KuroyukiESO

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree with you completely but let's get our facts straight: if it's anyone who stole breath of life it was sorcs with matriarch. It's literally the same, but better

Matriarch definitely isn't better than old BoL in PvP or solo content. The fact that the Matriarch can die and leave you without your burst heal is a big problem.

The fact that it can die is really a non issue. If it does die, you still surge and dark deal both to heal you, as well a 60% HP shield. Also, streak.

But, you can just recast the bird. It's much better than BoL. Aoe, spammable, cheap, does damage, heals for more even. Magplar has the worst burst heal in the game now that Coag is cracked out.

JayKwellen

Joy_Division wrote: »

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

The phrase you're thinking of is power fantasy.

As in, you get to fantasize about back when your magplar was good.

Joy_Division

JayKwellen wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

2015: My BoL averaged about 7.5 in Cyrodiil.

2020: In no CP, it's about 4.5K.

Meanwhile Wardens and Necros either stole or got better versions of templar, what's that phrase again, "class identity."

The phrase you're thinking of is power fantasy.

As in, you get to fantasize about back when your magplar was good.

Can't argue with that!

Syiccal

What would be nice is for them to actually implement the skill standards they spoke of, let Arctic blast keep its current utility, but then for skills like honour the dead that has zero other stuff going for it make it half the cost, or keep the cost but give it some other utility

JinxxND

Warden should get it's purge/cleanse removed if artic blast remains the way it is the heals from that are already absurd

KuroyukiESO

JinxxND wrote: »

Warden should get it's purge/cleanse removed if artic blast remains the way it is the heals from that are already absurd

Instead of mag return it should heal for 60% of the initial cast over time if under a certain HP threshold, that's how I feel

ealdwin

JinxxND wrote: »

Warden should get it's purge/cleanse removed if artic blast remains the way it is the heals from that are already absurd

Or at least a cost to cast. Major Sorcery & Brutality, 4416 Magicka or Stamina Return, 1 negative effect removed every 5 seconds. Falcon's Swiftness does less and costs 2700 more Magicka.

Mr_Nobody

After playing a Magplar in Solo PvP, your experiences on Wardens and Necros are weird. Its like you are playing something like a Magplar, but to much greater success with little to no effort.

Got some procs on ya? Cast a 0 cost ability a few times.
Need a heal? Cast some % heal off a 3rd resource.
Need some damage? Cast a spell that deals 13k aoe damage with little to no offensive stats. Twice if for shalks.

Need some damage on a Magplar? Charge in, expect that the server latency is top notch and you are going to hit most of your sweeps. Now as this is probably your 6th channel of sweeps and you have collected the AP, whisper the guy you just killed to stop being AFK.

JinxxND

I mean what's wrong with taking off the ability to purge on a class that literally has every buff in the book in it's hit and already heals through everything with artic blast, might as well just take the purge off it's not like it would kill the class but help bring it down a notch, most of the wardens holding block and spamming artic blast are still healing through every debuff and dot in the book on them because their healing is so absurdly high not even taking into consideration sets like malubeth etc.

Leave the purge to templars/necros they have more then enough in the kit and it won't ruin the class, stamdens are still doing fine with the nerf to sub assualt even though it lost breach and is still performing at the highest level overall this won't hurt either mag or stam wardens but bring them to a level that's not so ridiculously over tuned esp if they refuse to change artic blast

Neoauspex

Kinda surprised we're even bothering to post about Templars anymore, figured we all just moved on to the good classes a long time ago.