Love the sticker book, but under 50 BGs now busted...

Rittings

I mean, werewolves were too powerful in under 50 before... but now... you’re either a werewolf, or you are a loser. It’s that simple. ZoS... look at balancing werewolves that are not at CP please. It’s shameful at this point.

Waffennacht

Why exactly is WW more at an advantage via sticker book now in sub 50?

(I havent done sub 50 in years)

idk

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why exactly is WW more at an advantage via sticker book now in sub 50?

(I havent done sub 50 in years)

I am in the same boat wondering why the title mentions the sticker book and the post only talks about WWs. Do we have a correlation? More importantly, do we have actual information that there is a correlation, or is the association an assumption?

SshadowSscale

sticker book cannot create gear below cp160.... title is bait

Rittings

SshadowSscale wrote: »

sticker book cannot create gear below cp160.... title is bait

Yes it can. I’m not about to tell you the two sets in particular that are doing this, but I’m sure it can be worked out pretty easily.

I mean, werewolves were ridiculously overpowered and unbalanced with crafted gear in under 50... now... it’s beyond a joke, they are unkillable with insane DPS output. I’ve never seen anyone put 2 million damage out regularly in under 50 BGs... but now it’s easy.

Rittings

They are stronger in sub 50 due to people have less access to passives they can utilise to defend themselves against the exploit,, and that’s pretty much what it is at this point.

Waffennacht

is it an exploit or an oversight?

jaws343

I imagine it is a few of the bleed sets or proc sets being crafted at sub-50. Gear traits almost don't even matter if you have the right gear sets in under 50 and know what you are doing.

Mariusghost84

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

Rittings

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

It will make gear to the level of your toon.

Mariusghost84

Rittings wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

It will make gear to the level of your toon.

Ah ok, so all you now need is a 9 trait crafter on a lvl 10 , 20 , 30 , 40 and 45 toon and you good to go. Get ready to put in work bois!

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

sticker book cannot create gear below cp160.... title is bait

You probably only checked mythic items, which can only come max lvl, true.

Everything else is tied to the "creators" level.

Firstmep

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

It will make gear to the level of your toon.

Ah ok, so all you now need is a 9 trait crafter on a lvl 10 , 20 , 30 , 40 and 45 toon and you good to go. Get ready to put in work bois!

Why would you need 9 trait crafter? You only need 1 trait that you want to use on the constructed items.

prisoner223

I just tried my first random under 50 battleground, and it was an absolutely dismal experience. I was hitting people for around 1.2-1.5k, and there was a warden hitting me for 5k with cliff racers.

It was both the first and last BG I'll be participating in. It was incredible how unfun it was. I was getting executed for 8k+, don't remember how much poison injection was hitting me for, but the second I hit 50%, that's it, instantly hit by some sort of execute type ability for my entire remaining health pool and I was back to spawn timer.

Also, my Blood Sacrifice ability didn't seem to work. Although even if it did work and do some sort of healing, it would have been impossible for it to have ever done enough healing to keep up with even the basic cliff racer spam.

It was really really really terrible. It blows my mind that after nearly seven years on the market, this is the state of the game.

Rittings

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

It will make gear to the level of your toon.

Ah ok, so all you now need is a 9 trait crafter on a lvl 10 , 20 , 30 , 40 and 45 toon and you good to go. Get ready to put in work bois!

You only need 1 trait researched. The trait you reconstructing at. No work necessary. I got level 30 gear reconstructed with correct traits learned in less that 30 minutes.

wheem_ESO

prisoner223 wrote: »

I just tried my first random under 50 battleground, and it was an absolutely dismal experience. I was hitting people for around 1.2-1.5k, and there was a warden hitting me for 5k with cliff racers.

It was both the first and last BG I'll be participating in. It was incredible how unfun it was. I was getting executed for 8k+, don't remember how much poison injection was hitting me for, but the second I hit 50%, that's it, instantly hit by some sort of execute type ability for my entire remaining health pool and I was back to spawn timer.

Also, my Blood Sacrifice ability didn't seem to work. Although even if it did work and do some sort of healing, it would have been impossible for it to have ever done enough healing to keep up with even the basic cliff racer spam.

It was really really really terrible. It blows my mind that after nearly seven years on the market, this is the state of the game.

While the game in general has issues in PvP, the pre-50 bracket for BGs has always been a cesspool. Legitimately new players have no chance whatsoever against "twinks" running set gear and gold quality weapons that are the same level as their character (stat scaling is drastically affected if you've out-leveled your equipment).

The sticker book might have skewed things even more in favor of the twinked-out players, but it was by no means a level playing field before. Back when I ran a few lower bracket BGs when leveling new characters (using blue training gear that I had out-leveled), I never recognized a single twink's @ name. Most of them seem to slum it up by beating on new players and non-twinks, and can't hang with the big boys that have equal stats to theirs. The only way I would ever advise any new player to enter pre-50 BGs would be if they got someone to craft them decent sets that are equal to their level and upgraded to purple - and weapons to gold if you have generous friend(s) - in order to get some practice. There's a substantial learning curve, and experience in most other MMOs won't really prepare you for ESO's PvP, but you also can't really learn much when you have random gear you picked up while leveling and are going up against twinks.

FrancisCrawford

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

How does one make gear below lvl 160? Pretty sure that's not an option? Via sticker book that is.

It will make gear to the level of your toon.

Ah ok, so all you now need is a 9 trait crafter on a lvl 10 , 20 , 30 , 40 and 45 toon and you good to go. Get ready to put in work bois!

1-2 traits would suffice, no?

The only real grind is filling out the sticker book to get the cost in crystals acceptably low.

Ideal could be to grind the crystal cost all the way to 25, and then keep breaking down and recreating blue gear at character level. But that grind could take a long time. What do people actually seem to do?

MuzakalePants

prisoner223 wrote: »

I just tried my first random under 50 battleground, and it was an absolutely dismal experience. I was hitting people for around 1.2-1.5k, and there was a warden hitting me for 5k with cliff racers.

It was both the first and last BG I'll be participating in. It was incredible how unfun it was. I was getting executed for 8k+, don't remember how much poison injection was hitting me for, but the second I hit 50%, that's it, instantly hit by some sort of execute type ability for my entire remaining health pool and I was back to spawn timer.

Also, my Blood Sacrifice ability didn't seem to work. Although even if it did work and do some sort of healing, it would have been impossible for it to have ever done enough healing to keep up with even the basic cliff racer spam.

It was really really really terrible. It blows my mind that after nearly seven years on the market, this is the state of the game.

Having the same problem. I used to play random solo BG every night for the last year (don't care abt mode just wanted to have fun). Would do 5-10 matches depending on the night. Would win a good part. I was even top out of everyone at least one game a night. I wasn't the best but I wasn't the worst.

Now I am getting stomped. I'm getting hit for 5k, 10k, even 20k damage. I saw six players on one tonight. He took no damage and killed all 6 on him. Even in DM there are people getting 12-19 kills with zero deaths. I just don't get it.

It's not fun anymore. And if it's not fun for the people who used to play BG a lot, I can't imagine it's fun for the casuals. I wish they would just revert it back to how it was or something. This new system is more unbalanced than it has ever been it seems.

Astrid

MuzakalePants wrote: »

prisoner223 wrote: »

I just tried my first random under 50 battleground, and it was an absolutely dismal experience. I was hitting people for around 1.2-1.5k, and there was a warden hitting me for 5k with cliff racers.

It was both the first and last BG I'll be participating in. It was incredible how unfun it was. I was getting executed for 8k+, don't remember how much poison injection was hitting me for, but the second I hit 50%, that's it, instantly hit by some sort of execute type ability for my entire remaining health pool and I was back to spawn timer.

Also, my Blood Sacrifice ability didn't seem to work. Although even if it did work and do some sort of healing, it would have been impossible for it to have ever done enough healing to keep up with even the basic cliff racer spam.

It was really really really terrible. It blows my mind that after nearly seven years on the market, this is the state of the game.

Having the same problem. I used to play random solo BG every night for the last year (don't care abt mode just wanted to have fun). Would do 5-10 matches depending on the night. Would win a good part. I was even top out of everyone at least one game a night. I wasn't the best but I wasn't the worst.

Now I am getting stomped. I'm getting hit for 5k, 10k, even 20k damage. I saw six players on one tonight. He took no damage and killed all 6 on him. Even in DM there are people getting 12-19 kills with zero deaths. I just don't get it.

It's not fun anymore. And if it's not fun for the people who used to play BG a lot, I can't imagine it's fun for the casuals. I wish they would just revert it back to how it was or something. This new system is more unbalanced than it has ever been it seems.

12-19 kills is nothing, a friend of mine managed 58-0 during a flag match on a “twink” stamsorc to prove just how easy it was. It’s busted in u50s.

ealdwin

ZOS was pretty much warned that this would happen several times on the PTS forums. That allowing the reconstruction of sets at u50 levels would only serve to further the imbalance in u50. They either did not see, or chose to ignore it. If I'm thinking of the correct sets, then they were already causing issues in NoCP, and its no wonder they are wrecking havoc in u50. (Think of Isth3reno1else's 1-Button builds, but in u50... absolute mayhem.)

So, what's the solution. I've seen people suggest before that there should be a CP check for those entering u50 PVP, to prevent higher level players from exploiting the advantage that crafting/reconstructing sets can provide. It's not a bad solution, but does present certain problems. Most notably being, those who are focused on 'twinking' in the low level BGs and Cyrodiil, are doing so on alts, and are probably not raising their CP level. Further, if one wanted to keep doing so, they would simply avoid raising their CP level beyond the check. Additionally, I know that there are PVP guilds that from time to time run groups in u50 Cyrodiil to help introduce newer players to PVP and recruit, who might be locked out if a CP check were enabled.

Also, CP checks wouldn't help alleviate the sources of imbalance, like the problem OP brings up. The problem is the specific advantages that are available to older players that simply are not to newer players. The most impactful, perhaps, being specific gear.

The first solution that should be done is to simply lock any set from being reconstructed below level 50. That would certainly help stop the flow of imbalanced sets into u50 PVP. There is the issue of already reconstructed sets at sub-50, as those would need addressed, perhaps through an automatic increase in their level.

But, this would not fix all the problems that cause imbalance in u50 PVP.

ZOS could introduce a new Battle Spirit for u50 that could completely disable 5th piece set bonuses, so that the most oppressive effects were neutralized. Or, they could go a step further and turn off all set bonuses in u50 PVP, meaning that all armor would do is provide passives, traits, and enchantments. Either step would cut into the current power that "twinks" are exerting in u50. Another idea that could be implemented in tandem with the previous suggestion, or alone, would be to use a new u50 Battle Spirit to adjust all sets to provide the same numbers as un-improved sets. So if a player walked in wearing 5 gold-level Shacklebreaker, they would be getting no more than a player wearing white-level Shacklebreaker. Something does need to be done though.

Oh, and get rid of the hammer in u50 Cyrodiil.

Recapitated

I see no reason to allow reconning gear below level 50 but I thought pvp below 50 was unsalvageable anyway

precambria

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Muzza45

precambria wrote: »

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Some folks seem to think 'twinks' in u50 PvP are out there to prey on noobs... They are not. Most of those guys are fighting in small groups versus other 'twinks' from different factions and having some fun. They usually leave the noobs alone unless they get attacked. Of course there's the occasional bad apple, but I see them types all the time farming on resources in Grey Host - you know what I mean, totally taking no damage from a 5v1 and hitting like a truck with unlimited resources.

Everyone now has just about the same base to build-upon, but in the end it comes down to how much you want to spend? I'm Scottish, so TBH I have short arms & deep pockets (that's why I usually die pretty early). Others I know have everything golded-out every 2-levels and seem like Gods. It's their cash, let them do what they want in the game they paid/subscribe for.

wheem_ESO

Muzza45 wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Some folks seem to think 'twinks' in u50 PvP are out there to prey on noobs... They are not. Most of those guys are fighting in small groups versus other 'twinks' from different factions and having some fun. They usually leave the noobs alone unless they get attacked. Of course there's the occasional bad apple, but I see them types all the time farming on resources in Grey Host - you know what I mean, totally taking no damage from a 5v1 and hitting like a truck with unlimited resources.

Everyone now has just about the same base to build-upon, but in the end it comes down to how much you want to spend? I'm Scottish, so TBH I have short arms & deep pockets (that's why I usually die pretty early). Others I know have everything golded-out every 2-levels and seem like Gods. It's their cash, let them do what they want in the game they paid/subscribe for.

This is the Battlegrounds forum, and every level 10-49 BG that I've ever seen any "twinks" in, they'd absolutely be targeting legitimately new players. There were times back in the day on PC-NA that I'd see twink premades rolling over teams of random lowbies with 0 twinks on either other team.

Muzza45

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Some folks seem to think 'twinks' in u50 PvP are out there to prey on noobs... They are not. Most of those guys are fighting in small groups versus other 'twinks' from different factions and having some fun. They usually leave the noobs alone unless they get attacked. Of course there's the occasional bad apple, but I see them types all the time farming on resources in Grey Host - you know what I mean, totally taking no damage from a 5v1 and hitting like a truck with unlimited resources.

Everyone now has just about the same base to build-upon, but in the end it comes down to how much you want to spend? I'm Scottish, so TBH I have short arms & deep pockets (that's why I usually die pretty early). Others I know have everything golded-out every 2-levels and seem like Gods. It's their cash, let them do what they want in the game they paid/subscribe for.

This is the Battlegrounds forum, and every level 10-49 BG that I've ever seen any "twinks" in, they'd absolutely be targeting legitimately new players. There were times back in the day on PC-NA that I'd see twink premades rolling over teams of random lowbies with 0 twinks on either other team.

My apologies... I just scroll through 'Recent' posts, and didn't realise it was a BG forum. Thought it was Cyro PvP. Yes, you are 100% correct - 'twinks' in BG's are something special. Sorry again for my oversight!

wheem_ESO

Muzza45 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Some folks seem to think 'twinks' in u50 PvP are out there to prey on noobs... They are not. Most of those guys are fighting in small groups versus other 'twinks' from different factions and having some fun. They usually leave the noobs alone unless they get attacked. Of course there's the occasional bad apple, but I see them types all the time farming on resources in Grey Host - you know what I mean, totally taking no damage from a 5v1 and hitting like a truck with unlimited resources.

Everyone now has just about the same base to build-upon, but in the end it comes down to how much you want to spend? I'm Scottish, so TBH I have short arms & deep pockets (that's why I usually die pretty early). Others I know have everything golded-out every 2-levels and seem like Gods. It's their cash, let them do what they want in the game they paid/subscribe for.

This is the Battlegrounds forum, and every level 10-49 BG that I've ever seen any "twinks" in, they'd absolutely be targeting legitimately new players. There were times back in the day on PC-NA that I'd see twink premades rolling over teams of random lowbies with 0 twinks on either other team.

My apologies... I just scroll through 'Recent' posts, and didn't realise it was a BG forum. Thought it was Cyro PvP. Yes, you are 100% correct - 'twinks' in BG's are something special. Sorry again for my oversight!

No biggie, if my post sounded hostile it wasn't on purpose. Just saying that the sub-50 BG's are a cesspool, due almost entirely to twinks steamrolling non-twinks and new players. Hopefully there aren't too many new people that get turned away from PvP due to some of the nonsense that has been going on in there for the last several years.

Jierdanit

Muzza45 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Muzza45 wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

This actually levels the playing field, let me explain. Prior to this the only people who had access to DLC and arena sets were pretty much the kind of person who would farm them and gold them out to kill lowbies (and compensate for lack of something else) now at least any person who has done a decent amount of content can make a OP for under 50 build easily if they are so inclined. You don't need to gold out sets, you just need to know how to build and how to PvP under50 is not balanced from a skills perspective either people can drop level 10 meteors or use WW. This gives a chance for people leveling to fight fire with fight and slap on some of the sets from their mains builds.

Some folks seem to think 'twinks' in u50 PvP are out there to prey on noobs... They are not. Most of those guys are fighting in small groups versus other 'twinks' from different factions and having some fun. They usually leave the noobs alone unless they get attacked. Of course there's the occasional bad apple, but I see them types all the time farming on resources in Grey Host - you know what I mean, totally taking no damage from a 5v1 and hitting like a truck with unlimited resources.

Everyone now has just about the same base to build-upon, but in the end it comes down to how much you want to spend? I'm Scottish, so TBH I have short arms & deep pockets (that's why I usually die pretty early). Others I know have everything golded-out every 2-levels and seem like Gods. It's their cash, let them do what they want in the game they paid/subscribe for.

This is the Battlegrounds forum, and every level 10-49 BG that I've ever seen any "twinks" in, they'd absolutely be targeting legitimately new players. There were times back in the day on PC-NA that I'd see twink premades rolling over teams of random lowbies with 0 twinks on either other team.

My apologies... I just scroll through 'Recent' posts, and didn't realise it was a BG forum. Thought it was Cyro PvP. Yes, you are 100% correct - 'twinks' in BG's are something special. Sorry again for my oversight!

Gotta agree.

Lowbie BGs are very different from lowbie Cyro, because most "Twinks" in there are in there because they actually wanna stomp new players (and the average player in lowbie BGs seems considerably worse/weaker than the average lowbie Cyro player), while cyro players seem more into actually fighting other decent players or fighting heavily outnumbered.

NordSwordnBoard

If a new player can push buttons well, they stand a better chance fighting 810 motif hunters stubbornly wearing pve gear in regular bgs.

Since the devs are ultimately responsible for the set up, they should add a warning message to avoid under 50. Although it was designed for new players, that's been hijacked by experienced players looking to dominate or play with less procs/lag. That way, new players can compete against similar skill sets and gear. Why would they ever expect bgs to get easier after getting CP?

Rittings

If werewolves were balanced properly for under 50s it would solve most problems. Even in imperial city no cp you see the same thing...

Jierdanit

Rittings wrote: »

If werewolves were balanced properly for under 50s it would solve most problems. Even in imperial city no cp you see the same thing...

Just nerfing Werewolves for lowbie BGs is going to solve nothing.

There might be a few people who can only dominate in under 50 BGs because theyre WWs, but its easy enough with pretty much any spec as soon as you have decent gear and somewhat know how to play the game.

Rittings

Jierdanit wrote: »

Rittings wrote: »

If werewolves were balanced properly for under 50s it would solve most problems. Even in imperial city no cp you see the same thing...

Just nerfing Werewolves for lowbie BGs is going to solve nothing.

There might be a few people who can only dominate in under 50 BGs because theyre WWs, but its easy enough with pretty much any spec as soon as you have decent gear and somewhat know how to play the game.

Therein lies the problem... you don't have to know the game at all, or have any skill, to dominate as a werewolf in under 50 BGs... you just need to light attack, howl now and then, and devour... and you'll dominate over non-ww builds pretty comfortably