PvP Makes No Sence To Me

Freefalling17

(Battlegrounds) I'm trying to understand how the PvP in this game works but I can't take it seriously when I get one shot by everything and I everyone is a tank. I feel like I do no damage. Then if I would get them to low health they would instant heal to full but when I stack a double heal I can barely heal myself to 50% health. I am so confused. I would like to know how people are so tanky and how they can one shot me. Every time I play I would always get spammed by some NB invis, poison spam and snipe. I would like to hear your thoughts on what you guys think about PvP. Also it would be nice if someone can tell me why players can one shot me and are so tanky.

VaranisArano

It'll help if we know your class, gear, and build.

Freefalling17

I play on my 4 characters just to do daily's.

Character 1 StamDk running selene with hunding rage/briarheart with two handed/bow CP590

Character 2 MagSorc iceheart/mothers sorrow/false god with des staff CP590

Character 3 Magnecro iceheart/mothers sorrow/false god with des staff CP590

Character 4 stamNB lvl 30 just running some crappy gear.

VaranisArano

And you are getting one-shot/can't kill anyone on all of them?

It sounds like you may need to reevaluate how you are defending yourself and attacking the opponent. You'll need to be healing and buffing proactively - unless there's a heal proc going off, most players are healing on top of a proactive heal to get those big heals you see.

You'll also want to practice combos of skills that let you pressure or burst your opponent when their guard is down. These combos are probably what's killing you, especially if there are procs involved - most people don't get genuinely one-shot unless they are really squishy.

This might not work well if you want to do dailies on all four, but if you want to improve, I'd suggest working on one character at a time and playing them until you get a feel for your options with that character. Give yourself some time to work out what works and what doesn't.

Freefalling17

Any suggestions on how to not make a squishy build.

Jierdanit

Freefalling17 wrote: »

Any suggestions on how to not make a squishy build.

Well it seems Like all of those chars have a pve dps build which are Always Just build for Most damage since healers and Tanks care for your defense.

A balanced PvP build is usually gonna run 1 dmg Set, 1 survivability Set and 1 sustain Set when you want to be able to Play properly without having to rely in your group mates too much.

Also it would be good If you would Show your Skill setups for those builds because a generic pve Skill bar is never gonna Work in pvp.

Waffennacht

You have a PvE build in each case.

You'll never do any real damage to a PvP player; and you probably arent using much of any burst damage.

You have 0 defense. You do not have a heavy armor, 30k + health, max resistance build, nor so you have an offensive PvP build or a proc build.

You gotta build for PvP; and a PvP build will absolutely blow in PvE

Freefalling17

Any suggestions on any PvP skills, sets, tips etc.

Waffennacht

Yeah, in my signature is a link to a PvP health build.

The very first thing is deciding what kind of playstyle you enjoy using the most. Then you work from there.

Do you wanna stealth assassination style?
A sorc that blows someone up?
An unkillable tank?
A stam proc build?

Jierdanit

Freefalling17 wrote: »

Any suggestions on any PvP skills,

Most importantly youre gonna want to get rid of all of your ground targeted abilities (Like for example Wall Of Elements, Liquid Lightning etc).

Youre also Not gonna want to do a lot of continuous DPS, but should rather aim for a Lot of burst damage to get your opponents down quickly.

So youre gonna want to get some kind of dmg combo with good burst skills.
Good burst skills would for example be:
- for your sDK (Dizzying Swing and for your Ult either leap, Dawnbreaker or onslaught, whatever you Like better
- for the msorc (Curse, Crystal Frags, Meteor and maybe Wrath)
- for the magcro (normally i think youre wanna Run a build with Boneyard sinergy, blastbones and a burst ult, but im really Bad on magcro xD)

For your Stam builds you should get some heals to keep your char alive (Vigor is probably the Most important on any Stam spec, other good heals for Stam are Rally and some of the class heals).
For Mag builds you have to decide wether you want to use damage shields or heals as your defense and then should build according to your choice.

Freefalling17 wrote: »

sets,

For Sets you can Go a couple different ways rn, Just depending on what you want to do.
Some good PvP Sets are (still need to decide wether you wanna rather Go stat based, proc based, etc):
For Stam: Eternal Vigor, Briarheart, New Moon, Clever Alchemist, Stuhns Favor, Spriggan, Pariah, Engine Guardian, Trollking, Bloodspawn

For Mag: Eternal Vigor, Crafty Alfiq, Necropotence, Spinner, Burning Spellweave, Engine Guardian, Skoria, Grothdarr

To Just Name a few. You can ofc also Run quite a few other Sets (i didnt mention any non Monster proc Sets and No mythics simply cuz i dont have Greymoor)

Freefalling17 wrote: »

tips etc.

Youre gonna want to get a build that has a good survivability and still is able to kill most other players

You should learn to pay attention to the map in BGs (mostly PvP in General), since its ofc Bad If you get caught in a Situation you dont wanna be in, Like you 1v3 with your Team on the other Side of the map.

Like you probably already know, Crit Resistance is a very important stat in PvP, so youre gonna want to have at least some impenetrable Armor pieces so you get some decent resist (i would say for nonCP you should get at least 2000).

You should always try to keep all your Long time buffs up 100% of the time, those mostly include your Major Resolve, Major Brutality/Sorcery, If youre using tristat pots, Major Endurance, Intellect and Fortitude and more depending on your class.
You should also try to keep your debuffs up on your enemies the entire time.

Also very importantly you gotta always Take Care of your Stam Pool on mag and Stam builds because no stam usually means you die because u cant Break free from cc.

Brrrofski

Builds for PvP and pve are entirely different. You have to change everything. Gear, food, champion points (if you play in a Cyrodiil that allows them).

I suggest hitting up YouTube and searching for no cp builds. A build someone posts may not entirely work for you, but use it as a basis.

Battlegrounds are brutal at the moment, proc sets are very strong there. Get a decent amount of health and healing into your builds.

If you're new to PvP, I'd also suggest sticking with one class for a bit. Try different skills, try different ways of playing and learn the class inside out.

Learn how PvP work with that class, then try others. The more comfortable you get with a class, the more you can pay attention to what others are doing and how to negate them. This will help when jumping on another class. The reason you're dying on one class may be different to another, so learning how other people play might be harder if you're constantly switching.

Also, you don't have to PvP with them, but make on of every class. Play around with them and learn the skills, the more you know about other classes, the easier it'll be to fight them.

Morwaenna

Pvp is difficult in this game, I was in your shoes. Ask around in your guild(s) for any of your pvpers to spend some time with you looking at your gear, rotation and skills.

I was lucky someone did that with me and I saw a massive improvement.

Recapitated

You need to know the toolkit for your class. On sDK you rely on Major Mending from Frag Shield to boost Resolving Vigor, Cauterize (potentially Green Dragon Blood if your health is high) and Rally if you're using it. Volatile Armor is your resistance buff (also triggers Expert Hunter flank damage buff if you're using it). You can cast these skills while holding block to survive burst -- use snb backbar. Using Frag shield generates stam, ultimate, and gives you minor brutality. Get major brutality from Momentum. Both your heals and your offense scale mainly with weapon damage, so you want as much of it as you can afford.

Your damage revolves around priming your target for burst with Noxious Breath -- the Major Fracture will make everything else hit harder. Then you hit with Venomous Claw. At this point I usually refresh Vigor.

After that, your burst. Dswing is your main spammable; land it twice and your enemy is stunned, which ensures your Leap won't be blocked. Finish with Executioner.

If you don't need to Dizzy twice because your target is squishy, you can hold your light-attack button during your dswing and release a split second after it lands -- the medium attack will stun them.

Sets that work well on stamdk: Stuhn's frontbar, backbar Seventh Legion, Clever Alchemist backbar too but there's downtime and you need to use potions only on backbar (some people use infused potion cooldown glyphs especially on argonian stamdks to keep Clever Alchemist up). With these options you can wear Malacath and still have room for a monster set. Balorgh for damage or Bloodspawn for a balance of tankiness, sustain through ults and more frequent ults.

Then it helps to know how other classes work -- what are their strengths, weaknesses, and counters. Not going to get into each class's combo but from the get-go, you'll see stamcro and stamden work almost the same way: summon blastbones or sub assault, which will hit in three seconds, then try to make Dizzy Swing and Dawnbreaker land at roughly the same time as the first and finish with Executioner if needed. Being able to read opponents' intentions so you know that you're being pressured is essential. Realistically, no one is one-shotting you -- they're setting up burst combos.

Finally, you need awareness of your group's positioning. A big part of deathmatch BGs is not getting yourself into a situation where your team is going to be sandwiched between the other two, or not staying in line of sight of snipe spammers, etc.

JSlayer211

Freefalling17 wrote: »

(Battlegrounds) I'm trying to understand how the PvP in this game works but I can't take it seriously when I get one shot by everything and I everyone is a tank. I feel like I do no damage. Then if I would get them to low health they would instant heal to full but when I stack a double heal I can barely heal myself to 50% health. I am so confused. I would like to know how people are so tanky and how they can one shot me. Every time I play I would always get spammed by some NB invis, poison spam and snipe. I would like to hear your thoughts on what you guys think about PvP. Also it would be nice if someone can tell me why players can one shot me and are so tanky.

PVP in this game is super confusing. Keep in mind NoCP and CP PVP will play VERY differently as well. I think everyone has given you really good feedback already around things you can do to build for PVP. I would say just give it time though. These classes interact in all kinds of various ways. Once you start to figure out your own character and how it works fully, you will then begin to pick up the ways it interacts with other classes and how they work.

As far as healing goes, this reminds me of when I went into pvp on my magplar as a rookie lol. I was accustomed to jabs keeping me alive with it's heal in a pve setting so I figured that with breath of life should be fine. Haha boy was I wrong! Also, offensive pressure can become defensive to allow more healing to take place and stop the incoming damage. People sometimes just turn tail and run without thought that the person behind them is free to attack them unchallenged until dead. Sometimes you need to turn and CC to relieve the pressure being applied so that you can heal properly. Also, keep in mind debuffs like defile that can drastically reduce your healing power. With the current popularity of necromancers, I'd imagine it's on you quite frequently.

Being outclassed is a natural beginning feeling for PVP in any setting. If you can jump in on day 1 and be as effective as a seasoned PVP player of that game, I would say that's a bad game.

precambria

I have done tons of PvP in the last year mostly in BG, some days I wake up and literally nothing I do works, builds that were good the day before dont function because the servers are bad, this current meta is the most unplayable garbage pile thus far, there are some things you can do but honestly it's not even your fault they just keep breaking the game because they don't test and they don't listen.

Use eternal vigor dont play a bow build, or play a magDK or warden, those are the best ways to actually learn the game.

Freefalling17

As a PvE main playing PvP just to do dailys. I don't want to be forced to change my whole build just to do damage and not die.

wheem_ESO

Freefalling17 wrote: »

As a PvE main playing PvP just to do dailys. I don't want to be forced to change my whole build just to do damage and not die.

Some people have different characters that are exclusively set up for either PvP or PvE, so that's an option if you didn't want to constantly swap builds back and forth. If you do decide to go this route, your Stamina DK or Magicka Sorcerer would be far better PvP options than the Magicka Necromancer (which has been bottom of the barrel for the entire time that it has existed).

You really shouldn't expect to do well with a PvE build in BGs, especially as your MMR gets higher and you start facing more and more experienced players with "proper" builds. Conversely, most (all?) PvP builds would perform poorly in Vet Trials. If you're dead set on keeping the same gear and traits in BGs that you're using in PvE, you may still be able to improve your performance somewhat by changing out certain skills, and/or simply gaining more experience (as a player, not your characters).

Without switching out sets and/or traits, the only way you're going to get more survivability is by positioning yourself carefully, and being more proactively mobile. The only one of your characters that really fits for this with their current setup is the Magicka Sorcerer. You'll want a very itchy trigger finger on your Streak button, and be ready to combine that with a dodge roll or two when taking heat. Since you probably don't have very much Stamina from your current gear, enchants, or traits, you'll absolutely want to use tri-stat food in order to be able to dodge roll, break free, and Dark Conversion (if you're using it) more often.

For abilities, you'll 100% want Streak, Crystal Fragments, Haunting Curse, Endless Fury/Mage's Wrath (especially in Death Match), some form of single target spammable, a source of Major Sorcery, a source of Major Resolve/Ward, and - especially if not using a Resto Staff on the back bar - the Twilight Matriarch (which may die sometimes, so keep an eye on that). I personally always ran Dark Conversion on Magicka Sorcerer as well, but with the 5 piece on False God's Devotion, and your presumably low-for-PvP Stamina pool, you might not need it as much.

If you don't mind a minor gear change and want to save a bar slot and some magicka cost, you could switch out your monster set for Mighty Chudan, which is a respectable choice on Mag Sorc IMO. Other skills that may potentially be worthwhile are your Mines, Race Against Time (especially if there are any Bombard spammers around), Deep Thoughts, Elemental Drain, Destructive Clench (I personally used Streak for my CC, but Clench certainly isn't bad on Sorc), along with Radiating/Rapid Regeneration and Life Giver if using a Resto Staff on the back bar.

VaranisArano

Freefalling17 wrote: »

As a PvE main playing PvP just to do dailys. I don't want to be forced to change my whole build just to do damage and not die.

Well, unfortunately, PVE builds don't translate particularly well to PVP. ZOS helped a little bit by adding a certain amount of crit resistance to everyone, but its not nearly enough to save you from people who are actually experienced at killing properly built PVPers. And especially if you are inexperienced at PVP, its going to be even harder to make PVE builds work.


My suggestion: focus on the not-dying part of things first. That way you have a chance to learn what mistakes you are making, plus, dead players deal no damage. Since you want to make minimal changes, I suggest swapping out one set from your PVEbuild with a set that you can rotate between your characters as you do the dailies. Others may have different sets to suggest. The crafted set that gave me the most breathing room in a pinch was Whitestrake's Retribution with the damage shield at 30% health. It was just enough for me to recover from a hard hit. The non-crafted set that helped me in a similar way was Pariah, which increases resistances as you lose health or my very basic impen Plague Doctor, for when you just need an extra health cushion.

Gear alone won't cut it when it comes to surviving. As others have mentioned, you'll need to be very mindful of your resource usage in No CP BGs, especially protecting your ability to dodge roll and break free. You'll need to heal proactively to stay out of execute range. Probably most importantly, you'll want to pay attention to the rhythm of the fight - defending or dodging when your enemy goes all out to kill you, then attacking once they've expended their resources futilely trying to kill you.