The Elder Scrolls Online

Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)

Which quests have gay references?

Leave a Reply
  • Deter1UK
    Deter1UK
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sailor_Palutena wrote: »
    CaptainVenom wrote: »
    Into the Vice Den and Hadran's Fall in Reaper's March, where you help Sind rescue his boyfriend Tand. Also there's a quest in Bangkorai (I don't remember the name) where you help a guy who dates a dude with lycanthropy problems, and a quest in Summerset related to a woman and her transgender sister.

    I should say I love how Zenimax/Bethesda brought LGBT into ES world. Good work, ZOS! 🏳️‍🌈❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🖤
    I also love how it feels very natural, instead of some other companies that force it into the context making it look superficial.

    Indeed. I've been gaming since MUDs. The first time I encountered a same-sex couple in ESO I had a jolt of suprise immediately followed by feeling immensely touched by how sensitively and natural it was handled. Im still pleased when I come across them. Well done ZOS.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    ESO has a lot of NPCs who flirt hard with characters of both sexes, especially PCs.

    Actual quests with LGBTQ references include:
    • The quest with the dying Bosmer husband, near a wayshrine in the south of one of the Bosmer zones, noted above.
    • The Bangorkai "help my husband" quest, noted above.
    • A "help my wife" quest given by the first mate (?) of a ship in a northeastern coastal area in one of the early AD (?) zones.
    • The trans quest in Summerset, which should probably be discussed only in spoilers.
    • The one at the estate in central Rivenspire, triggered by a heterosexual male fiance' in which the problem turns out to involve the woman's mutual interest with her orc maid, noted above.
    • Velsa's personal quests
      in the Thieves Guild quest line, noted above.

    I also like that a couple of the best NPC relationship jokes were saved for lesbians. There's the "moving stock" one in Belkarth, and the two shopkeepers (one in the main crafting area and the other in the enchanting shop) in the Hollow City.

    There aren't a lot of LGBTQ relationships, frankly, but they seem to be handled exactly like heterosexual relationships in most cases.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on 9 September 2020 12:32
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Didn't someone make a list of all LGBTQ things in Elder Scrolls, including ESO? I'm sure I remember it has been brought up more than once.
    baratron wrote: »
    https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lgbtq-tamriel

    Scroll down to Elder Scrolls Online. It's listed by NPC rather than by quest, and may include spoilers.

    Ah, someone has already linked it :)
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • TwinLamps
    TwinLamps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Well, this aint a quest but it was a series of dialogues u can ahve with 2 NPCs in Hollow City after you restored it.
    There is a dunmer enchanter unaware of affection certain khajiit vendor shows for her, going as far to leave her dead animals as offerings on a doorstep
    Awake, but at what cost
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
    Didn't someone make a list of all LGBTQ things in Elder Scrolls, including ESO? I'm sure I remember it has been brought up more than once.
    baratron wrote: »
    https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lgbtq-tamriel

    Scroll down to Elder Scrolls Online. It's listed by NPC rather than by quest, and may include spoilers.

    Ah, someone has already linked it :)

    Good list. Doesn't have everybody who flirts with you, however, with Ulagarg Chiefs-Bane (sp?) being the first omission I noted.
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The quest in Morthal in Western Skyrim involves the Jarl's daugter and her past relationship with a female necromancer.
  • ChaosWotan
    ChaosWotan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool :) Again tnx for a great response :)
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    During the original Daggerfall Covenant starter quest (I forget the island? desert location? you start in, after you're pulled aboard the ship after escaping that uh.... soul shriven place. memory. bad. failing.) there is a Nord...
    There is a, assumed to be, gay Nord that joins your crew. He makes a comment along the lines of being excited to work next to whats his face (memory so bad it hurts), along with several other women excited to be on board with him. According to the Nord, whats his face is known for his stamina, and the Nord looks forward to getting sweaty alongside him :D made me chuckle.

    I know I have a screen shot of the Nords funny dialogue, and have yet to finish the quest. I'll have to add details later. I was also 2 glasses of wine in at that point, and air fist bumped my tv from the couch.

    On the topic of this topic.... Mass Effect is another title with prominent inclusion of homosexuality, and interspecies relationships among the various alien races, presenting several NPC's throughout your adventures in the galaxy that are obviously with their same sex partner, or tell you so through dialogue/questing. You even have the option to "romance" same sex crew members. By "romance" I simply mean you have the option to develop your relationship through dialogue between quests, leading up to them being your boyfriend/girlfriend, and have a special cut scene with them before the final quest.
  • kinguardian
    kinguardian
    ✭✭✭✭
    Oh there are a lot actually plus random npc's that mention their spouses.

    In auridon you come across 2 old woodelfs 1 of them is dying and you have to find flowers for them.

    Then in vvardenfell a lady asks you to find her wife who is the fore(wo)man of the building site.

    There is a quest you have to find stuff that got stolen if this circus group. The bearded lady is a big nord in a dress.

    NPC's flirt with you no matter if you are same sex or not.

    Abahs landing has velsa who is a female dunmer and she is in love with a female khajiit.

    And there are more And more throughout the game

  • RamiroCruzo
    RamiroCruzo
    ✭✭✭
    Craglorn vendor in Belkarth calls her partner Wife *shrug*
    Having a light side... And a Dark side... Is what makes life interesting...
    High as Nord and Proud as Dark Elf
    Blood for the Pact
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jakarn is a bisexual character. He flirts mostly with females but also has male lovers. Most notably in his Elysweyr appearance, as he turns down a male lover in his first appearance in Stros M'Kai. You can talk to the turned down male nord, and he will make some comments about having only joined the crew to see Jakarn shirtless.

    You learn in Elysweyr he had a shifty male Khajit lover.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on 10 September 2020 01:58
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    furiouslog wrote: »
    There is also a Thieves Guild quest featuring a lesbian couple (also interracial - dumner/khajit!)

    Oh...I loved that one. It's such a sweet romance.

    I know there are also a few that involve same gender couples in the Pact storyline, but dang, it's been a long time.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    A lot.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade

    Leveling...
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion

  • StabbityDoom
    StabbityDoom
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    [edit] asked in PM and hopefully will be able to express to OP my concerns.

    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation (making something abnormal normal) in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't.
    Edited by StabbityDoom on 10 September 2020 18:10
    PC/NA
    EHT zealot
    streamer: http://twitch.tv/stabbitydoom
  • richo262
    richo262
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Most quests in Greymoor.

    North east delve involves finding a lesbians girlfriend
    Middle town quest involves lesbian lovers, I forget the story, this kind of forced writing is quite forgettable.
    Many others I can't remember because of how forgettable Greymoor is.

    Even the Werewolf boss, you speak to the NPC, the woman will tell you his son is gay, the son will get you how gay he is, the boyfriend will also tell you how gay he is. Such a deep story going on here.

    I think ZOS is trying to explain why there are no children in ESO.
  • prof-dracko
    prof-dracko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The werewolf pack WB is harassing a gay Nord and his mother, who wanted to bring her son and boyfriend/husband into the wilderness toughen them up, or something. I also vaguely remember some ambient dialogue in the Elden Root sewer-sort of area, where a male Khjiit mentions getting home to his husband. I don't think I've heard it since, but it's not an area I frequent.
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.

    I would have given even more help if I knew that to counteract someone withdrawing help. It's a school. It's learning. You can't expect someone to change ideas that might not be ideal without education.

    I think this kind of assignment is great for understanding and ESO does a fantastic job with representation.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on 10 September 2020 07:44
  • Nairinhe
    Nairinhe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.
    Edited by Nairinhe on 10 September 2020 09:04
  • Watchdog
    Watchdog
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.

    Well, there is a difference between representation (which in my opinion ESO does quite well) and forceful representation, aka "shoving stuff down everyone's throat" (which in my opinion ESO does not do).

    The former I am perfectly fine with, however, I do not want the latter to happen in ESO, as it would change my favourite fantasy universe to something not enjoyable at all. Some people may be more sensitive to any shift towards the latter.
    Edited by Watchdog on 10 September 2020 09:42
    Member of Alith Legion: https://www.alithlegion.com
  • richo262
    richo262
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Watchdog wrote: »
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.

    Well, there is a difference between representation (which in my opinion ESO does quite well) and forceful representation, aka "shoving stuff down everyone's throat" (which in my opinion ESO does not do).

    The former I am perfectly fine with, howerver, I do not want the latter to happen in ESO, as it would change my favourite fantasy universe to something not enjoyable at all. Some people may be more sensitive to any shift towards the latter.

    Up until Greymoor, I'd probably agree with you, it was so apparent that it was eye rolling. I actually began to feel sorry for gay people, surely they don't like having part of their identity sold back to them as a cheap commodity in this fashion. I obviously don't speak on their behalf however.
  • Watchdog
    Watchdog
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    richo262 wrote: »
    Watchdog wrote: »
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.

    Well, there is a difference between representation (which in my opinion ESO does quite well) and forceful representation, aka "shoving stuff down everyone's throat" (which in my opinion ESO does not do).

    The former I am perfectly fine with, howerver, I do not want the latter to happen in ESO, as it would change my favourite fantasy universe to something not enjoyable at all. Some people may be more sensitive to any shift towards the latter.

    Up until Greymoor, I'd probably agree with you, it was so apparent that it was eye rolling. I actually began to feel sorry for gay people, surely they don't like having part of their identity sold back to them as a cheap commodity in this fashion. I obviously don't speak on their behalf however.

    Hmmm, I have to admit that I have still not gotten to playing Greymoor, apart from the Antiquities system. I cannot judge that yet.
    Member of Alith Legion: https://www.alithlegion.com
  • craybest
    craybest
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I, a gay, have no issues with ESOs lgbtq representation, I enjoy it, it's nice not to be erased from stories all the time anymore. I don't feel like ESO does it Inna forced way, people have their husbands, wives, girlfriends or boyfriends and no one cares. It's done in a very natural and organic way.
    I enjoyed Greymoor quests a lot btw, although I know lots of people didn't.
  • Nairinhe
    Nairinhe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    richo262 wrote: »
    Watchdog wrote: »
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.

    Well, there is a difference between representation (which in my opinion ESO does quite well) and forceful representation, aka "shoving stuff down everyone's throat" (which in my opinion ESO does not do).

    The former I am perfectly fine with, howerver, I do not want the latter to happen in ESO, as it would change my favourite fantasy universe to something not enjoyable at all. Some people may be more sensitive to any shift towards the latter.

    Up until Greymoor, I'd probably agree with you, it was so apparent that it was eye rolling. I actually began to feel sorry for gay people, surely they don't like having part of their identity sold back to them as a cheap commodity in this fashion. I obviously don't speak on their behalf however.
    I didn't feel that "gayness" was forced in Greymoor at all. Maybe "female-ness". I think that quests with necromancer and frozen stuff could feel more natural if (spoiler just in case)
    Maxten was a guy. I can't exactly pinpoint why female characters cause an overload of femininity for me in these particular stories. Maybe because Freiwen is so stereotypically sweet girly girl (love the character though, she kinda reminds me of Snow White) and Maxten is stereotypical evil-because-hearbroken mage and it would be better to just overdo stereotypes by making, so to say, power-wielding side male
    Anyway, ESO still handles representation and inclusiveness very well in my opinion.
  • CMDR_Un1k0rn
    CMDR_Un1k0rn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    In Tamriel, it's not even an issue. it's just normal life.

    As it should be.

    I love the way ZOS handled this. It's one of my favourite things about the game. The world needs love, not hate.
    In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!
  • StabbityDoom
    StabbityDoom
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.

    I would have given even more help if I knew that to counteract someone withdrawing help. It's a school. It's learning. You can't expect someone to change ideas that might not be ideal without education.

    I think this kind of assignment is great for understanding and ESO does a fantastic job with representation.

    [edit]
    sent a pm asking this to OP

    helping with education is one thing, but if it's an opinion piece, I think we should know.

    Edited by StabbityDoom on 10 September 2020 18:12
    PC/NA
    EHT zealot
    streamer: http://twitch.tv/stabbitydoom
  • Nairinhe
    Nairinhe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.

    I would have given even more help if I knew that to counteract someone withdrawing help. It's a school. It's learning. You can't expect someone to change ideas that might not be ideal without education.

    I think this kind of assignment is great for understanding and ESO does a fantastic job with representation.

    I am asking whether its a neutral position paper or coming at it from a position of "being gay is bad and video games are normalizing this sick behavior" paper [this is an example, not my opinion]. If it's the latter, I think it's important to know what we are aiding with. Helping with education is one thing, but if it's an opinion piece, I think we should know.
    Even if it's the latter wouldn't it be better if even biased report contained proper sources? If I see, say, an article titled "Videogames are normalizing horrendous practice of being nice to animals", I'm going right in just to see examples of those beautiful games
  • StabbityDoom
    StabbityDoom
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    Even if it's the latter wouldn't it be better if even biased report contained proper sources? If I see, say, an article titled "Videogames are normalizing horrendous practice of being nice to animals", I'm going right in just to see examples of those beautiful games

    true! sources should be valid, but I'd be less inclined to PERSONALLY help in that case [the animals one you are giving.]
    Edited by StabbityDoom on 10 September 2020 14:38
    PC/NA
    EHT zealot
    streamer: http://twitch.tv/stabbitydoom
  • Nairinhe
    Nairinhe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    Even if it's the latter wouldn't it be better if even biased report contained proper sources? If I see, say, an article titled "Videogames are normalizing horrendous practice of being nice to animals", I'm going right in just to see examples of those beautiful games

    true! sources should be valid, but I'd be less inclined to PERSONALLY help in that case [the animals one you are giving.]
    I'm not sure, honestly. I've heard that saying (no idea about source, sorry) that roughly translates into "a report about a carriage running over a dog can be presented in such a way that people will exclaim: "Down with the Republic!". Maybe it's better to provide sources that are not at least "pre-twisted". Maybe it's better not to, to avoid, so to say, tainting their reputation, because I just remembered that nowadays if someone says "ESO shows bad things" loud enough, nobody is going to check if it's true.
  • SpiderKnight
    SpiderKnight
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    richo262 wrote: »
    Watchdog wrote: »
    Nairinhe wrote: »
    StabbityDoom wrote: »
    Is this a subjective or an objective paper you are writing? It doesn't sound objective, because "normalize" has a negative connotation in this context and you use "gay" instead of LGBTQ, as if gay covers all of that, which it doesn't. I feel like asking us for help on such a sensitive topic without explaining your direction on this is a bit misleading. I'm not asking you to politicize or take a side - to be clear - I just would like to know if you are doing an objective paper or not. That's all. I'm not sure if the people who answered would have done so if they knew your goal here was going to end up as evidence for a subjective argument paper.
    OP says nothing about LGBTQ+ (gosh, it has grown, I remember when it was only LGBT) so it's totally possible that they are only interested in the "LG" part.

    Edit to add: about that "normalize" part - there's a lot of stuff that was completely taboo or was considered unnatural or just generally inappropriate not so long ago. So I imagine some people still need to be assured and others need to be reminded that some things are OK now.

    Well, there is a difference between representation (which in my opinion ESO does quite well) and forceful representation, aka "shoving stuff down everyone's throat" (which in my opinion ESO does not do).

    The former I am perfectly fine with, howerver, I do not want the latter to happen in ESO, as it would change my favourite fantasy universe to something not enjoyable at all. Some people may be more sensitive to any shift towards the latter.

    Up until Greymoor, I'd probably agree with you, it was so apparent that it was eye rolling. I actually began to feel sorry for gay people, surely they don't like having part of their identity sold back to them as a cheap commodity in this fashion. I obviously don't speak on their behalf however.

    I have to agree with you there. It didn't feel as forced before Greymoor. This chapter, it felt kinda awkward a bit when I played through, like they wanted more praise, rather than having it feel natural like it is/was.
  • ChaosWotan
    ChaosWotan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This forum is about ESO, the game and its content. Political debates and similar RL discussions get closed. So I simply asked about facts relating to the content of the game. That's it :)
Sign In or Register to comment.