the Sky IS NOT FALLING!

DUTCH_REAPER

relax. We have complained complained complained on these forums for YEARS! Everyday in cyrodil is a complaint in zone about cruddy servers and pos game. WELL...now they are testing possible fixes. LET THEM TEST. it wont hurt us if we are lagging anyways right? i mean current state of pvp is bad. so why come here and cry about it. Lets enjoy our double AP they are giving us. Lets try out their changes and provide CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.. not whine whine whine. Until this morning i honestly thought ZOS could care less about pvp...but now they have given me hope on a game i really enjoy to play. Let us just be patient and give them a chance.

This is the way

Sandman929

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

relax. We have complained complained complained on these forums for YEARS! Everyday in cyrodil is a complaint in zone about cruddy servers and pos game. WELL...now they are testing possible fixes. LET THEM TEST. it wont hurt us if we are lagging anyways right? i mean current state of pvp is bad. so why come here and cry about it. Lets enjoy our double AP they are giving us. Lets try out their changes and provide CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.. not whine whine whine. Until this morning i honestly thought ZOS could care less about pvp...but now they have given me hope on a game i really enjoy to play. Let us just be patient and give them a chance.

This is the way

I love playing as an organized group, but for me, performance comes first. I just wish there weren't so many obvious downsides to their plans to improve performance.

TineaCruris

Except they fixed most of the issues in cyrodiil for the Midyear Mayhem event. Instead of just doing what ever they did to make the event work well on a full time basis, they are presenting this crazy limitation to player skills.

I'm very happy to endure a testing period to gather needed data so that educated decisions can be made. That's not an issue.

DUTCH_REAPER

If i have to learn a different playstyle to play in lag free high performance cyrodil...im game

Radiance

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

If i have to learn a different playstyle to play in lag free high performance cyrodil...im game

The funny thing is that people think this will actually Fix the problem... There will always inevitably be another problem that needs fixed, it's a never ending cycle...

Also you don't get to say whatever you want and seal it with a Co-opted "This is the way" bc I'm pretty sure there's only one Way and this is NOT it...

DUTCH_REAPER

Radiance wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

If i have to learn a different playstyle to play in lag free high performance cyrodil...im game

The funny thing is that people think this will actually Fix the problem... There will always inevitably be another problem that needs fixed, it's a never ending cycle...

Also you don't get to say whatever you want and seal it with a Co-opted "This is the way" bc I'm pretty sure there's only one Way and this is NOT it...

Do you even Mandalorian bro???????????

Lyar09

It's not testing if you get false positives. People wont be playing in cyrodiil in order to get accurate testing. The player base will not be anywhere near what it is currently.

LeifErickson

No. These changes will ruin the combat unless they come with complete class overhaul. Isn't Brian or Rich a stamplar main? You think he wants these changes making it to live? Not a chance. I don't believe for a second a stamplar main would give the okay for this. The only logical explanation is the devs were forced to make this change. If we push hard enough we can get it reverted.

DUTCH_REAPER

get more players lured in by double AP...get more results. sounds good.

DUTCH_REAPER

its not just Plars...its all classes with aoe skills that get affected

Kungfu

Lyar09 wrote: »

It's not testing if you get false positives. People wont be playing in cyrodiil in order to get accurate testing. The player base will not be anywhere near what it is currently.

Then the playerbase who chooses not to test has no reason to complain when stuff doesn't work.

VaranisArano

It'll be interesting. I mean there are two reasons I use so many AOEs:

1. Cyrodiil is a target rich environment. I'm not going to face a faction stack rolling up to Chalman's front door with single-target skills, you know? Nor am I going to heal a group of any size with single target heals.
2. AOEs work a lot better in heavy lag than trying to hit one guy with a single target skill. Its the only thing that works. ZOS kinda screwed the pooch on this one: AOEs make performance worse, but they are the only thing that works in lag...yeah, there's a problem.

Kungfu

LeifErickson wrote: »

No. These changes will ruin the combat unless they come with complete class overhaul. Isn't Brian or Rich a stamplar main? You think he wants these changes making it to live? Not a chance. I don't believe for a second a stamplar main would give the okay for this. The only logical explanation is the devs were forced to make this change. If we push hard enough we can get it reverted.

Why would you push to have something reverted that isn't even in yet.
Much less something you definitely haven't even tried yourself?

Too many chicken littles.

PrimusNephilim

so the sky isn't falling....but the light just went out

Kungfu

TineaCruris wrote: »

Except they fixed most of the issues in cyrodiil for the Midyear Mayhem event. Instead of just doing what ever they did to make the event work well on a full time basis, they are presenting this crazy limitation to player skills.

I'm very happy to endure a testing period to gather needed data so that educated decisions can be made. That's not an issue.

Unfortunately, I believe MIdyear Mayhem only proves Rich Lambert's point.
For one, it didn't completely fix the lag - it was still awful during prime time hours. Though, I will agree it was less during most other times and performance was better overall. But here's why I think Lambert's point applies:

During Mayhem, they opened up other servers because more people play(ed). More of the PVE type people who played came into the big campaign(s) and came with builds that do NOT cause the problems Rich laid out, for the reasons he laid them out: A bunch of players who do not know how to stack their AOE damage, who do not run in tight ball-groups spamming them, etc.
Thus, the server side calculations that the *proposed TESTS* are intended to affect really were not in full motion during Mayhem. Many of the organized ball groups explored other servers during non-raid times because queue times were ridiculous.

To me, it proves that the devs ARE paying attention and that they ARE doing their best to resolve the root cause - not the symptoms.

Lughlongarm

True.

1)We had a "no CP" test in cyrodiil over 2 years ago, still no changes to the CP system.

2)The first test fix of global CD is obviously created to establish a performance benchmark check. It was never intended as an actual fix to lag.

3)Even if one of the test fixes will be implemented(let's say the personal skill CD) many of the skills we know as AOE will be adjusted to single target.

This will require a complete overall of class abilities and sets, it will take long time to be implemented.

driosketch

Lyar09 wrote: »

It's not testing if you get false positives. People wont be playing in cyrodiil in order to get accurate testing. The player base will not be anywhere near what it is currently.

It's closer to the real thing than PTS or Internal testing can replicate. The only other thing they can do is surprise test during prime time without warning.

People complain that lag kills the game. Now they complain that limited time changes to try and narrow down the issue destroys the game. They are offering up double AP as compensation. I say let them test.

red_emu

Then why every time I look down, I find pieces of the sky on the ground?

xaraan

Well, testing things that will negatively effect the game in a different way even if you fix performance is questionable IMO.

That's just trading one problem for another, though maybe it works in the sense that it screws over less players I guess.

But if I can't use abilities in cyro, whether b/c of lag or cooldown, it is still the same problem. And I do what I do when performance is the cause: leave cyro.

DUTCH_REAPER

BIG guilds who adapt to the changes will be successful and continue to own in cyro.

Small scale who adapt will own in cyro still

solo who adapt will still own in cyro

Just imagine a Cyrodil with no lag and best performance...mmmmm sounds Hawt

TineaCruris

Kungfu wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

Except they fixed most of the issues in cyrodiil for the Midyear Mayhem event. Instead of just doing what ever they did to make the event work well on a full time basis, they are presenting this crazy limitation to player skills.

I'm very happy to endure a testing period to gather needed data so that educated decisions can be made. That's not an issue.

Unfortunately, I believe MIdyear Mayhem only proves Rich Lambert's point.
For one, it didn't completely fix the lag - it was still awful during prime time hours. Though, I will agree it was less during most other times and performance was better overall. But here's why I think Lambert's point applies:

During Mayhem, they opened up other servers because more people play(ed). More of the PVE type people who played came into the big campaign(s) and came with builds that do NOT cause the problems Rich laid out, for the reasons he laid them out: A bunch of players who do not know how to stack their AOE damage, who do not run in tight ball-groups spamming them, etc.
Thus, the server side calculations that the *proposed TESTS* are intended to affect really were not in full motion during Mayhem. Many of the organized ball groups explored other servers during non-raid times because queue times were ridiculous.

To me, it proves that the devs ARE paying attention and that they ARE doing their best to resolve the root cause - not the symptoms.

I was in Grey Host all day most days during the event. The player base did not change that much. I think most of the PvE players went to the temporary campaigns, not to Grey Host.

LeifErickson

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

BIG guilds who adapt to the changes will be successful and continue to own in cyro.

Small scale who adapt will own in cyro still

solo who adapt will still own in cyro

Just imagine a Cyrodil with no lag and best performance...mmmmm sounds Hawt

What solo magplar can be successful if he presses honor the dead and now must wait 3 seconds before he can heal himself again?

Gorreck

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

its not just Plars...its all classes with aoe skills that get affected

Stamplar and Magplars main spamable is AOE however, they clearly haven't thought that one through.


No main spamable in the game survives a 3 second cooldown as a viable option.

DUTCH_REAPER

LeifErickson wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

BIG guilds who adapt to the changes will be successful and continue to own in cyro.

Small scale who adapt will own in cyro still

solo who adapt will still own in cyro

Just imagine a Cyrodil with no lag and best performance...mmmmm sounds Hawt

What solo magplar can be successful if he presses honor the dead and now must wait 3 seconds before he can heal himself again?

Isnt it already channeled currently? i mean doesnt it have a timer already or no?
(edited) i see it is 1 sec

katorga

Gorreck wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

its not just Plars...its all classes with aoe skills that get affected

Stamplar and Magplars main spamable is AOE however, they clearly haven't thought that one through.


No main spamable in the game survives a 3 second cooldown as a viable option.

They clearly did think it through, because they clearly used Templar as an example, lol.

What will be interesting is if aoe skills like blastbones, sub assault, and others that have a cool down baked into the beginning of the skill remain untouched while classes like templar get completely wrecked.

Obviously, this only solution is to stack health and proc sets,

VaranisArano

driosketch wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

It's not testing if you get false positives. People wont be playing in cyrodiil in order to get accurate testing. The player base will not be anywhere near what it is currently.

It's closer to the real thing than PTS or Internal testing can replicate. The only other thing they can do is surprise test during prime time without warning.

People complain that lag kills the game. Now they complain that limited time changes to try and narrow down the issue destroys the game. They are offering up double AP as compensation. I say let them test.

I don't think the objection is to the limited tests.

It's about the results of those tests, if it works, and ZOS changes how the game works whether players like it or not. Not everyone would trade better performance for a massive rework of how their abilities work.

Winnamine

For Cyrodiil, the sky is falling.
For the players, well, there's always other games.

Azurya

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

relax. We have complained complained complained on these forums for YEARS! Everyday in cyrodil is a complaint in zone about cruddy servers and pos game. WELL...now they are testing possible fixes. LET THEM TEST. it wont hurt us if we are lagging anyways right? i mean current state of pvp is bad. so why come here and cry about it. Lets enjoy our double AP they are giving us. Lets try out their changes and provide CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.. not whine whine whine. Until this morning i honestly thought ZOS could care less about pvp...but now they have given me hope on a game i really enjoy to play. Let us just be patient and give them a chance.

This is the way

We are currently investigating issues some players are having logging into the European PC/Mac megaserver. We will update as new information becomes available.
That is what we experience, nice testing

DUTCH_REAPER

Azurya wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

relax. We have complained complained complained on these forums for YEARS! Everyday in cyrodil is a complaint in zone about cruddy servers and pos game. WELL...now they are testing possible fixes. LET THEM TEST. it wont hurt us if we are lagging anyways right? i mean current state of pvp is bad. so why come here and cry about it. Lets enjoy our double AP they are giving us. Lets try out their changes and provide CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.. not whine whine whine. Until this morning i honestly thought ZOS could care less about pvp...but now they have given me hope on a game i really enjoy to play. Let us just be patient and give them a chance.

This is the way

We are currently investigating issues some players are having logging into the European PC/Mac megaserver. We will update as new information becomes available.
That is what we experience, nice testing

what on earth are you talking about??? they are not testing anything on live atm. you are sorely mistaken im afraid and your anger is misplaced

Casterial

Animation cancel removing was a test
BG solo queue was a test
CP was a test
Block Changes were a test
AOE caps was a test
Faction Lock was a test

... Need I go on?

DUTCH_REAPER

i swear there are so many people who complain about cyrodil and yet they are trying to fix it and you all complain. give them a break they are atleast trying to fix it. there are other games you can play if cant handle some changes