Within Nchuthnkarst

Eporem

Would anyone know what this is of in Nchuthnkarst

Enodoc

It's effectively a Dwemer light source - they have them in all their larger cities it seems. I don't think there's much background lore about how it works though.

Ilsabet

FUS

...Sorry, instinctive reaction.

M_Volsung

You'll fine out what it is... in due time...

Eporem

I know what it is now... you are given a little miniature one



and now I wonder what orbits around it - wish I could take a little video for this to be seen of the actual orbitration

another image with a more close up of the rings that orbit this

Aigym_Hlervu

I came back after I completed the quest too, @Eporem. It seems to be some kind of a writing orbiting there. Two circles of some unknown alphabet. I thought it was written in Dwemeris or in the Falmeri language, but none of those "letters" seem to correspond to this:




Maybe I'm just missing something there.

Eporem

Could they be Daedric symbols..

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Eporem wrote: »

I know what it is now... you are given a little miniature one



and now I wonder what orbits around it - wish I could take a little video for this to be seen of the actual orbitration

another image with a more close up of the rings that orbit this

Those are definitely Dwemer letters, although they are mirrored and a bit difficult to discern in that image. It seems to mostly be gibberish, but I haven't tried to transcribe all of it.

Eporem

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

I know what it is now... you are given a little miniature one



and now I wonder what orbits around it - wish I could take a little video for this to be seen of the actual orbitration

another image with a more close up of the rings that orbit this

Those are definitely Dwemer letters, although they are mirrored and a bit difficult to discern in that image. It seems to mostly be gibberish, but I haven't tried to transcribe all of it.

If you have time/inclination to transcribe a touch of this could you post what you have found?

Eporem

some other thoughts on this

could the orbiting writings that surround this caged sun be what is keeping it caged - for study maybe..

could they be runes -

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Runestones

RaddlemanNumber7

I've seen enough heresy to know where this is going.

Some people here seem to be suggesting that the Mundus is Heliocentric.

The thing we are looking at in Nchuthnkarst is a functioning microcosm of the Mundus sitting on top of a Tower. A malfunction within that microcosm is causing significant temporal disturbances. Hence the presence of Thaddeus Cosma (Heart of the Cosmos?).

How can the thing in the middle of that orrery be Magnus? How can the thing in the middle of any orrery or astrolabe be Magnus?

I believe that what we are seeing here in the centre of the Nchuthnkarst orrery is Nirn with Her surface layer stripped off.

Eporem

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I've seen enough heresy to know where this is going.

Some people here seem to be suggesting that the Mundus is Heliocentric.

The thing we are looking at in Nchuthnkarst is a functioning microcosm of the Mundus sitting on top of a Tower. A malfunction within that microcosm is causing significant temporal disturbances. Hence the presence of Thaddeus Cosma (Heart of the Cosmos?).

How can the thing in the middle of that orrery be Magnus? How can the thing in the middle of any orrery or astrolabe be Magnus?

I believe that what we are seeing here in the centre of the Nchuthnkarst orrery is Nirn with Her surface layer stripped off.

Who would be suggesting this @RaddlemanNumber7 …. the ones who named the little miniature one and the furnishing one as a Dwarven sun?.... though they did not name it Magnus … so could it be a star/different sun?

https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/dwarven-miniature-sun-portable/

RaddlemanNumber7

Eporem wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I've seen enough heresy to know where this is going.

Some people here seem to be suggesting that the Mundus is Heliocentric.

The thing we are looking at in Nchuthnkarst is a functioning microcosm of the Mundus sitting on top of a Tower. A malfunction within that microcosm is causing significant temporal disturbances. Hence the presence of Thaddeus Cosma (Heart of the Cosmos?).

How can the thing in the middle of that orrery be Magnus? How can the thing in the middle of any orrery or astrolabe be Magnus?

I believe that what we are seeing here in the centre of the Nchuthnkarst orrery is Nirn with Her surface layer stripped off.

Who would be suggesting this @RaddlemanNumber7 …. the ones who named the little miniature one and the furnishing one as a Dwarven sun?.... though they did not name it Magnus … so could it be a star/different sun?

https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/dwarven-miniature-sun-portable/

The ones who called it Sun and then placed it at the centre of the Mundus are, of course, the chief offenders.

Eporem

then there is this - and a question - which Orrery could have been built first - this one in Firsthold or the Dwemer one




The Great Orrery at Firsthold, whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered by travelers during the Merethic Era, is the only legacy of the Sun Birds of Alinor. Their expeditions to Aetherius are among the most famous attempts in history, although they were eventually dissolved due to the expenditures requiring immense amounts of magicka.[16



.

Eporem

These are the list of parts Thaddeus asks us to get -

Circuited Half-Shells (2): These components are necessary for the resonance capacitor to maintain equilibrium during tonal cycling.

Replacement Gears: Special machined cogs and gears can be found in any Dwemer automated repair junction, provided they are not already used by constructs requiring repairs.

Dwemer Focusing Scope: Certain sounds make light. Some lights make sounds. Do not crack the lenses or crystals inside of the scope!


Since they are all Dwemer parts and were all available in Nchuthnkarst - could these same parts have been used when building their Orerry, and since the Focusing Scope can record light making sounds and sounds making light then could the lettering that orbits this light source (named a Dwarven Sun and that I now see as hanging from the ceiling of the cave and not suspended in air) be a recording of sounds they have discovered.

Aigym_Hlervu

Eporem wrote: »

then there is this - and a question - which Orrery could have been built first - this one in Firsthold or the Dwemer one

Well, the Orrery of Firsthold is said to be a material legacy of the Sunbirds of Alinor. The Sunbirds, in it's turn, are mentioned in the lore along with the Reman Dynasty's Royal Mananauts who were established not earlier the 1E 2703 (to those who don't know it - it's 799 years before the events of ESO), but still it doesn't mean they were contemporary to them - they could have been much older. And, according to Aicantar of Shimerene, the earliest Dwemer Freehold colonies date from the Late Merethic Era.

So it is up to you to decide if you trust the Imperial Geographical Society and Aicantar or not. I don't trust them both - the first was noticed blatantly lying when they said that "Almalexia and Sotha Sil, were destroyed in the Nerevarine's fury" (those "scientists" did not even bother to find out the truth) and the latter is simply an Altmeri propagandist and the head ideologist of the Altmeri supremacy not worthy of all the piety some people express towards him. In his opinion the Altmer are the most ancient, the cleverest, the best people of all . And the IGS supports him because the Imperials are former slaves whose culture is just the mix of the Elven and Nordic ones, so all they do is trying to keep a foot in both camps in order to secure their power over both Men and Mer. The result is seen in the 4th Era. Anyway, I prefer to trust logic and what I witness personally. And personally I'm aware of only one Altmeri orrery in Firsthold and one in the Arcane University in Imperial City. Regarding the Dwemer: they had those observatories in Stros M'Kai and Galom Daeus at least, they left us diagrams, star charts, airships like this and this one and airship schematics. Yes, there is that hat said to be of the Royal Imperial Mananaut design, those two orreries in Firsthold and in IC, but it is too little to trust those mad Altmer and an Imperial propaganda society that their space program was the most developed - all they have are words only while the Dwemer have left us material sources. I have counted several dozens of the Dwemeri ruined, but ultimately developed settlements with lots of scientific information, in the lore - now count the settlements of any other race and decide yourself whom to trust. This is why I think the Dwemeri orrery is much older then the Altmeri one. Anyway, I can be wrong on that of course, - only the time machine like the one we visited in Nchuthnkarst can give us direct answers.

Eporem

Thank you for all these links of lore @Cygemai_Hlervu - which seem to raise more wonderings in my mind:) I like seeing all the constellations from this link you gave of Stros M'Kai....though wonder why the absence of the Serpent..was it not seen at this time..



I came across this as well - that the Firsthold Orrery was disassembled - would this be 'canon' lore since it was stated by Lawrence Schick - in a Lore type interview.
......

Nate: This is an uncharacteristically short question. We've enjoyed the quests involving, uh, divination by the Orrery at, uh, Elder Root, but is the Great Orrery at Firsthold, wrought of celestial material retrieved by the Sunbirds of Alinor, still standing?

Phrastus: As it happens, I can answer this question, as a generation ago, the matter was a subject of scandal among scholars all across Tamriel. Around the year 235, Rilis the Twelfth, whom I gather was a rather unstable character, asked the [Varmaster] of the Orrery of Firsthold a question about his future greatness. And when the [Varmaster] replied rather tartly that the Orrery was not a device that rendered astrological prediction, Rilis was vexed. He dismissed the [Varmaster] forthwith, and had the entire Great Orrery disassembled. It was crated up carefully, and is currently stored, I believe, in the vaults beneath Firsthold Palace.

https://lagbt.wiwiland.net/index.php?title=TESO:Loremaster's_episode_of_ESO-RP_interview


and of Thaddeus 'hat' it seems to have the same symbols as his armor (which I think is Dwarven?) and also these symbols are all over the floor of where he stands, so to me a little mystery why it was named an Imperial Mananaut Hat.

RaddlemanNumber7

I spent some time getting a closer look at this yesterday once I'd finished the quest. It reminded me of a prayer wheel.

The writing is a spell, no doubt, and since it's Dwemer it may be tonal and not semantic. More like music notation rather than written words. If we could hear it it might sound something like a loop of elevator music

So, two looped spells, constantly re-cast. Since it seems to be some kind of Tower I would expect its primary function to be to give a stable form to the environment.

I could only see seven "planets", and no "moons".



but that's the same as this smaller version:



As mysterious as ever.

Eporem

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I spent some time getting a closer look at this yesterday once I'd finished the quest. It reminded me of a prayer wheel.

The writing is a spell, no doubt, and since it's Dwemer it may be tonal and not semantic. More like music notation rather than written words. If we could hear it it might sound something like a loop of elevator music

So, two looped spells, constantly re-cast. Since it seems to be some kind of Tower I would expect its primary function to be to give a stable form to the environment.

I could only see seven "planets", and no "moons".



but that's the same as this smaller version:



As mysterious as ever.

these smaller versions seem to be all around this place...and I noticed them as separate parts scattered around as well.. so I do believe (for now:)) they were building an Orrery there which in turn helped them build this 'time machine' - what I wonder still is, is this the only machine built -- if it malfunctions then all time travel (tonal travel?) is out of sync ? and another wonder what the seven planets are...

The_Drop_Bear

Eporem wrote: »

then there is this - and a question - which Orrery could have been built first - this one in Firsthold or the Dwemer one




The Great Orrery at Firsthold, whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered by travelers during the Merethic Era, is the only legacy of the Sun Birds of Alinor. Their expeditions to Aetherius are among the most famous attempts in history, although they were eventually dissolved due to the expenditures requiring immense amounts of magicka.[16



.

Well if the firsthold orrery was made in the merethic era than it predates the dwemer one by a long time, as the dwemer didn't move into Skyrim till after clan rouken had left for hammerfell which happened a few hundred years into the first era

Aigym_Hlervu

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

then there is this - and a question - which Orrery could have been built first - this one in Firsthold or the Dwemer one




The Great Orrery at Firsthold, whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered by travelers during the Merethic Era, is the only legacy of the Sun Birds of Alinor. Their expeditions to Aetherius are among the most famous attempts in history, although they were eventually dissolved due to the expenditures requiring immense amounts of magicka.[16



.

Well if the firsthold orrery was made in the merethic era than it predates the dwemer one by a long time, as the dwemer didn't move into Skyrim till after clan rouken had left for hammerfell which happened a few hundred years into the first era

It is only said there that the mineral used to build the Orrery's spheres was gathered during the Merethic Era by some travelers, not that the spheres were built during that era - the Sunbirds and the Orrery could have come to the history much later. At least, this is the way I understand that phrase.

Eporem

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

then there is this - and a question - which Orrery could have been built first - this one in Firsthold or the Dwemer one




The Great Orrery at Firsthold, whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered by travelers during the Merethic Era, is the only legacy of the Sun Birds of Alinor. Their expeditions to Aetherius are among the most famous attempts in history, although they were eventually dissolved due to the expenditures requiring immense amounts of magicka.[16



.

Well if the firsthold orrery was made in the merethic era than it predates the dwemer one by a long time, as the dwemer didn't move into Skyrim till after clan rouken had left for hammerfell which happened a few hundred years into the first era

It is only said there that the mineral used to build the Orrery's spheres was gathered during the Merethic Era by some travelers, not that the spheres were built during that era - the Sunbirds and the Orrery could have come to the history much later. At least, this is the way I understand that phrase.

When reading I saw this as well - an uncertainty that can be taken in how the words were placed. If it was "The great Orrery at Firsthold built during the Merethic Era whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered..."then someone can say it is certain it was built during this Era.

and is it at all possible this Great Orrery at Firsthold was built by the Dwemer before they disassociated themselves from the Aldmer, and if it was disassembled, then they just went on and built others in different parts of Nirn.

Eporem

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I spent some time getting a closer look at this yesterday once I'd finished the quest. It reminded me of a prayer wheel.

The writing is a spell, no doubt, and since it's Dwemer it may be tonal and not semantic. More like music notation rather than written words. If we could hear it it might sound something like a loop of elevator music

So, two looped spells, constantly re-cast. Since it seems to be some kind of Tower I would expect its primary function to be to give a stable form to the environment.

I could only see seven "planets", and no "moons".



but that's the same as this smaller version:



As mysterious as ever.

I think to have decided in my head for now that this is a Dwemer light source that @Enodoc mentioned - connecting a bit to what is written about them here...

Their mastery of steam and geothermal power through tapping into the natural lava sources under Morrowind allowed them to create airships, sentient machines, mechanical observatories, and lighting systems that continued to work for centuries without any maintenance

from here: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer

what this light source is lighting up (a projection? of what was seen through their Orrery? ) still seems a puzzle to me, this and what the seven planets would be on their Orrery as well as now the Hat

blah bleh ugh....I guess in other instance if a shout is placed towards this light a dragon named Vulthuryol is released.. so @RaddlemanNumber7 these, as you say, might be spells perhaps keeping this dragon contained...

and just one more thought:)maybe - could this, what seems to be a cage, be a type of soul gem, containing the soul of this Dragon Vulthuryol - could this soul of this Dragon be what the Dwemer consider their Sun. - and in this other instance, when a shout is used towards this light, this shout somehow gives this soul a form.

Smaxx

Eporem wrote: »

and of Thaddeus 'hat' it seems to have the same symbols as his armor (which I think is Dwarven?) and also these symbols are all over the floor of where he stands, so to me a little mystery why it was named an Imperial Mananaut Hat.

Think at least at this point you're interpreting a bit too much into it. While it might be an "Imperial" Mananaut Hat, it might also just be a minor case of reused assets, because let's face it, it clearly fits the style/presentation, and might not necessarily be Imperial (or even Dwarven) in-character.

M_Volsung

Eporem wrote: »

and of Thaddeus 'hat' it seems to have the same symbols as his armor (which I think is Dwarven?) and also these symbols are all over the floor of where he stands, so to me a little mystery why it was named an Imperial Mananaut Hat.

That hat is Imperial in the same way the Dwemer tonal resonator is a "Telvanni device".

RaddlemanNumber7

Since the story writers have strayed out of genre here I think we can safely assume that the Imperial Mananaut hat is back-engineered alien technology