Difference between Stamina and Magicka, lorewise?

HailSanta28

It's clearly not as simple as "physical" and "magical" capability since stamina morphs are a thing. No amount of physical conditioning would allow someone to, for example, turn into actual lightning, or conjure a skeleton.

So if it's not a distinction between physical and mental ability, what exactly is the difference between stamina and magicka? What do they represent?

Bruccius

Magicka is something each mortal has access to thanks to Magnus (the sun), who left behind the essence of Magicka when he abandoned the creation of Nirn. (Ot at least, something along those lines).

Each of the stars in TES are these ''holes'' to Aetherius, where numerous powerful entities who abandoned the creation of Mundus left the world. Magnus was one of the largest and most powerful of these entities.

Hope that answers your question.

HailSanta28

Bruccius wrote: »

Magicka is something each mortal has access to thanks to Magnus (the sun), who left behind the essence of Magicka when he abandoned the creation of Nirn. (Ot at least, something along those lines).

Each of the stars in TES are these ''holes'' to Aetherius, where numerous powerful entities who abandoned the creation of Mundus left the world. Magnus was one of the largest and most powerful of these entities.

Hope that answers your question.

But what about stamina? Stamina morphs are still magic, and nearly identical to the magicka based abilities they morph from. So is it still magicka? Is the distinction something like intelligence vs willpower?

I get where magicka comes from, I just want to understand how stamina, the ostensibly physical trait, can do the same things. And I'm looking for a better answer than "gameplay."

To put it another way, what is the difference between a stamplar and a magplar? Spellsword vs pure mage?

VaranisArano

You know the answer is basically "its gameplay", right? In other TES games, you can move very fluidly from weapon to spell depending on your attributes and skills, but those games didn't have actual classes except as a starting point. Outside of a few perks like causing paralysis with a bow or 2hander in Skyrim, there weren't extra "skills" attached to weapons.

There's not going to be a "this is what stamina is" in the lore, because stamina is a gameplay construct.

The best explanation you'll probably get is that stamina abilities are martial techniques. In the case of Dragonknights, in the lore all of their skills are developed from the martial techniques of the Akaviri. Having a melding of magic and stamina makes sense when these are skills developed for use in battle.


Other explanations I can come up with:
A thing to consider is that the schools of magic aren't entirely codified in this era. So while Stam Sorcs can currently summon bound weapons through their technique, we might surmise that it will later be refined into the Bound Weapon spells. Other skills like Hurricane just fell by the wayside.

Alternatively, some stamina abilities seem to require a physical trigger. For Templars, they seem to summon either a magical or physical spear, and presumably the physical version takes actual physical effort to wield while the magical one takes magicka to use.

Aigym_Hlervu

Every mortal on Nirn consists at least of four essences: health, stamina, magicka and physical body with a soul to animate the mechanism. Galerion showed us it is possible to separate them.

To cast a spell a spellcaster must sacrifice his essence the same way a warrior swinging an axe sacrifices his stamina. What essence to sacrifice is completely another question. A shaman dancing with a tambourine exhausts his stamina, a mage speaking out an incantation exhausts his magicka, but they both might have a similar result of their spellcasting. It's like those Expunge and Purge skills - they both remove negative effects from the caster with some slight differences, but it takes a Purge caster to sacrifice a part of his magicka, while a necromancer sacrifices his health to cast the Expunge (think of a necromancer sacrificing some of his blood with a knife in a dark ritual). The same way it takes stamina to draw a Circle of Protection on the ground, or, say, it takes nothing but time to Invoke the Rites of Moawita or to meditate. Morphs are rituals performed to achieve a certain result, so different morphs of, say, a Blastbones incantation result in different skeletons you raise, though they are still skeletons.

Have you read the book called On the Preparation of the Corpse with it's volumes 2 and 3 describing what it takes to raise a simple zombie? I guess it takes more of stamina there, don't you agree with me on that? Anyway, there are so many books on magic that describe the process..

The Four Suitors of Benitah: "Yakin taught him the spell to fortify his strength. It took him some time to master it, visualizing magicka streaming through his body, pumping through the very fibers of his muscles for a time, giving him strength far beyond the puny power nature had intended. When Oin met Horath on the street of Gnisis, he cast the spell and challenged him to a duel of strength."
The Power of the Elements: "Elemental magic wielded, Elemental thoughts displayed. Havoc wrought as if for sport, Efforts to impress fall short. I'll merely use a blade. Seeking study, wanting learning, Recklessly aroused my rage!".
Breathing Water: "the spells of Alteration are all about uncommon sense. The infinite possibilities, breaking the sky, swallowing space, dancing with time, setting ice on fire, believing that the unreal may become real.".

I won't continue their list - I hope you get the point, OP.

Bruccius wrote: »

Magicka is something each mortal has access to thanks to Magnus (the sun), who left behind the essence of Magicka when he abandoned the creation of Nirn. (Ot at least, something along those lines).

Each of the stars in TES are these ''holes'' to Aetherius, where numerous powerful entities who abandoned the creation of Mundus left the world. Magnus was one of the largest and most powerful of these entities.

Again this typical delusion and propaganda of an Eight Divines worshipper !.. Why do you, the Eight Apostasies worshippers, always force these myths as if it is the only truth and something accepted by everybody? What if I say you the stars were placed by Ruptga to guide the spirits to the Far Shores and magicka essence is created by Satakal, the God of Everything? Where would your Magnus be left then? Though the Sixth Redguard Maxim states "Fear not the unbelievers, for believer and unbeliever alike shall be eaten by the Serpent God" and though I'm not a Redguard and do not follow Hel Shen She Ru, I do not force anyone to believe those tales as the heretics like you do .

Integral1900

I always got the impression that the difference was the method of channelling. They are both using magic but spell casters channel it through the mind while stamina uses channel it through the body.

PS, more hybrids please LOL 🙂

RaddlemanNumber7

I think this is one of the things the lore writers have deliberately chosen not to define. Lore on this subject is especially sparse, vague and muddled, and this is by design. This gives freedom to the people who design game mechanics. It also reduces the number of embarrassing retcons the lore masters have to deal with when game mechanics get radically changed. It's an example of how game mechanics seriously out-ranks lore in game design, and how that affects lore.

Remember when StamDK's got changed into Poison Knights? No new or altered lore had to be provided to explain that change.

If you want a lore-like answer to how stamina abilities differ from magicka abilities I think you'll have to invent your own. If it was me doing it I would probably start by saying it is all Anu-Padomay really, and that variations like magicka/stamina/vitality are something derived from the spell caster's mindset (innate and acquired, conscious and sub-conscious).

That still leaves unasked the question of what "Ultimate" is, and how that differs from magicka, stamina, etc.

Ajaxandriel

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

To cast a spell a spellcaster must sacrifice his essence the same way a warrior swinging an axe sacrifices his stamina. What essence to sacrifice is completely another question. A shaman dancing with a tambourine exhausts his stamina, a mage speaking out an incantation exhausts his magicka

This.

HailSanta28 wrote: »

No amount of physical conditioning would allow someone to, for example, turn into actual lightning, or conjure a skeleton.

In fact in Nirn's world, it would. (As long as the ritual/"keyword"-spell is correct.)

The_Drop_Bear

HailSanta28 wrote: »

It's clearly not as simple as "physical" and "magical" capability since stamina morphs are a thing. No amount of physical conditioning would allow someone to, for example, turn into actual lightning, or conjure a skeleton.

So if it's not a distinction between physical and mental ability, what exactly is the difference between stamina and magicka? What do they represent?

Gameplay. Is there actually anything in lore staying that these abilities are actually using stamina and not magic.

Enodoc

There has never been a definition of "Stamina" in Lore.

It's worth noting that prior to Skyrim, that attribute was called Fatigue, and also that ESO is the only game where there are any "abilities" that cost Stamina. Previously, that attribute was expended to perform physical actions - running, sneaking, attacking, etc.