I don't know exactly what you did, but it was a mistake what ever it was

Jeremy

The damage in PvP is through the roofs now. It's ridiculous and people are dying in milliseconds.

I highly recommend you undo whatever it was you did in that last update. It was not an improvement

MurderMostFoul

I'm guessing it's the huge nerf to over-tuned defensive monster sets and 20% reduced healing.

LOS and damage avoidance are going to be even more important now than before. Just trying to strait mitigate and heal through damage will be much harder.

Jeremy

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the huge nerf to over-tuned defensive monster sets and 20% reduced healing.

LOS and damage avoidance are going to be even more important now than before. Just trying to strait mitigate and heal through damage will be much harder.

Yeah I wouldn't even try to play defensive now. It's pointless. You're better off just running around rocks or hiding altogether... otherwise you're just going to be melted.

It's going to be which ever side has the most people attacking the same target first who wins every match now. Just a race to see who can make the other team go splat first. Not much fun for defensive characters who were built around outlasting their opponents or supporting their team mates. Because defense is pretty much dead in this patch against skilled opponents and battlegrounds are turning into slaughterhouses. No wonder they didn't want to bring back premades. They would just be hilariously overpowered under these new rules.

Xarc

we asked to zenimax to do something against tanky meta. They did.

Jeremy

Xarcus wrote: »

we asked to zenimax to do something against tanky meta. They did.

Then they should have concentrated their efforts on CP PvP (because that seemed to be where the problem was). There was no invincible "tanky meta" in battlegrounds or no CP PvP.

These changes are terrible for no CP PvP - and if they stay in place I may just have to quit PvP on this game because it's not fun at all. That or dust off my Nightblade and try spamming invisible every time I get targeted by the other side. lol...

Noctus

Jeremy wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

we asked to zenimax to do something against tanky meta. They did.

Then they should have concentrated their efforts on CP PvP (because that seemed to be where the problem was). There was no invincible "tanky meta" in battlegrounds or no CP PvP.

These changes are terrible for no CP PvP - and if they stay in place I may just have to quit PvP on this game because it's not fun at all. That or dust off my Nightblade and try spamming invisible every time I get targeted by the other side. lol...

there were invincible tanks in nocp too mostly wardens. in EU PC nothing changes in high mmr battlegrounds. ppl still pretty tanky there.

nightblades are screwed in bg anyways go try.

wheem_ESO

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the huge nerf to over-tuned defensive monster sets and 20% reduced healing.

LOS and damage avoidance are going to be even more important now than before. Just trying to strait mitigate and heal through damage will be much harder.

And the Stamina dominance (+ Mag Sorcs) intensifies.

'Course, it does seem to be possible to build in a fair bit of defense right now; I've seen a Magicka Templar or two who were still fairly durable, at least while blocking (and they were able to do a lot of blocking). How useful one could be outside of damage sponging, though, I can't say yet (the examples I saw were on weak teams).

Trailed

So basically if you're not a 2h build, you've got to build some sort of tank to be able to withstand the insane amount of damage it does now. The healing reductions were a suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper great idea. Now I've got a great vampire skill tree, but still get spammed to death by every scrub with a 2H weapon and dizzying skill.

I guess I'll just build full heavy armor and sacrifice some poor souls to Sithis. Hopefully the added spell and physical resist from it will help. As apparently if you're in light armor you're about as durable as wet paper.

PhoenixGrey

wheem_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the huge nerf to over-tuned defensive monster sets and 20% reduced healing.

LOS and damage avoidance are going to be even more important now than before. Just trying to strait mitigate and heal through damage will be much harder.

And the Stamina dominance (+ Mag Sorcs) intensifies.

'Course, it does seem to be possible to build in a fair bit of defense right now; I've seen a Magicka Templar or two who were still fairly durable, at least while blocking (and they were able to do a lot of blocking). How useful one could be outside of damage sponging, though, I can't say yet (the examples I saw were on weak teams).

Solo queue only BG's is especially exposing the killing potential and mobility which a lot of mag classes lack. Playing mag classes other than mag sorc seems to be for purely RP reasons these days

CassandraGemini

Xarcus wrote: »

we asked to zenimax to do something against tanky meta. They did.

With ZOS one needs to always remember the saying: "Be careful what you wish for". They'll find a way to make you regret you ever opened your mouth in the first place.

Unless you're on console, of course. Then you're just going to be ignored forever.

Jeremy

Trailed wrote: »

So basically if you're not a 2h build, you've got to build some sort of tank to be able to withstand the insane amount of damage it does now. The healing reductions were a suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper great idea. Now I've got a great vampire skill tree, but still get spammed to death by every scrub with a 2H weapon and dizzying skill.

I guess I'll just build full heavy armor and sacrifice some poor souls to Sithis. Hopefully the added spell and physical resist from it will help. As apparently if you're in light armor you're about as durable as wet paper.

Heavy Armor doesn't help much. My templar has over 32k resistance and over 50k health and still gets melted so fast it's just sad. It seems the only way to mitigate damage now is by blocking.

Frankly I think I'm retiring my main character from PvP because these changes have been so bad. It's just stupid, frankly. I'm going to try a few different builds on some alt characters then maybe decide from there if I want to just quit PvP all together or not.

One thing they definitely need to do on this game though... if they are going to insist with making these dramatic changes all the time that can completely ruin a person's build in PvP then THEY NEED TO GIVE US AN OPTION TO CHANGE CLASSES.

Jeremy

Noctus wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

we asked to zenimax to do something against tanky meta. They did.

Then they should have concentrated their efforts on CP PvP (because that seemed to be where the problem was). There was no invincible "tanky meta" in battlegrounds or no CP PvP.

These changes are terrible for no CP PvP - and if they stay in place I may just have to quit PvP on this game because it's not fun at all. That or dust off my Nightblade and try spamming invisible every time I get targeted by the other side. lol...

there were invincible tanks in nocp too mostly wardens. in EU PC nothing changes in high mmr battlegrounds. ppl still pretty tanky there.

nightblades are screwed in bg anyways go try.

I've been playing this game for many years and I have never seen an invincible tank in no CP PvP. Not even once. So until I actually see it for myself, I don't believe you.

As far as Nightblades, at least they have invisible... which may actually be the only way to stay alive when multiple people target you now. So I'm not sure they have it that bad anymore. In fact: they may be the new go to class.

likecats

PSA: Vamp is now mandatory for both stam and magicka classes.

Run vamp, the undeath passive gives up to 30% mitigation and scales from 100% health as of this patch. By 50% health you get 15% resistance which is a lot. Also means that you get guaranteed 24% mitigation against mages wrath at 20% health and other executes.

Totally worth it even with the 8% cost increase. And you get access to a pretty decent ultimate as well for 289 ultimate points. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf undeath passive down the line, so make use of it now.

To calculate if it will be worth it for your build, record the number of times you die and the number of times you ran out of resources at the time of death. If the correlation is low, you can definitely afford vamp stage 3.

Trailed

likecats wrote: »

PSA: Vamp is now mandatory for both stam and magicka classes.

Run vamp, the undeath passive gives up to 30% mitigation and scales from 100% health as of this patch. By 50% health you get 15% resistance which is a lot. Also means that you get guaranteed 24% mitigation against mages wrath at 20% health and other executes.

Totally worth it even with the 8% cost increase. And you get access to a pretty decent ultimate as well for 289 ultimate points. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf undeath passive down the line, so make use of it now.

To calculate if it will be worth it for your build, record the number of times you die and the number of times you ran out of resources at the time of death. If the correlation is low, you can definitely afford vamp stage 3.

Except its not at all worth it, regardless of stam or magicka. Been running it all week and basically anything with a 2H(80% of Stam builds) or Fire damage (the rest of the game and players) are going to blow you up. Had they not nerfed the ever living hell out of healing, maybe it would be worth it then. The range on the spam is garbage. The lifedrain does trash damage and trash healing. I'm about sure a skeever could out dps the heal from this ability. They effectively gave us a different skin for vampire bats and pumped it up a bit. Everything else remains just about useless

likecats

Trailed wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

PSA: Vamp is now mandatory for both stam and magicka classes.

Run vamp, the undeath passive gives up to 30% mitigation and scales from 100% health as of this patch. By 50% health you get 15% resistance which is a lot. Also means that you get guaranteed 24% mitigation against mages wrath at 20% health and other executes.

Totally worth it even with the 8% cost increase. And you get access to a pretty decent ultimate as well for 289 ultimate points. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf undeath passive down the line, so make use of it now.

To calculate if it will be worth it for your build, record the number of times you die and the number of times you ran out of resources at the time of death. If the correlation is low, you can definitely afford vamp stage 3.

Except its not at all worth it, regardless of stam or magicka. Been running it all week and basically anything with a 2H(80% of Stam builds) or Fire damage (the rest of the game and players) are going to blow you up. Had they not nerfed the ever living hell out of healing, maybe it would be worth it then. The range on the spam is garbage. The lifedrain does trash damage and trash healing. I'm about sure a skeever could out dps the heal from this ability. They effectively gave us a different skin for vampire bats and pumped it up a bit. Everything else remains just about useless

You can run vamp for the passive and not run any of the abilities.
It's worth running vamp only for the undeath passive alone at vamp stage 3.

To acquire the undeath passive you lose 70% health regen, and you take 12% fire damage, and your abilities cost 8% more.

1. My 1100 regen (with gold food buff) went down to about 400, which used to be the old normal if you've played before all the new gold food in 2019.
2. The 12% fire damage is negated by undeath passive at 60% health mathematically. (so no it cannot blow you up)
3. Lastly the main downside is the 8% cost increase, and the point is that undeath passive is stronger on which I elaborated in my previous post.

Look, I'm not going to argue further for a very clear cut buff to the undeath passive. It's for your benefit if you take this advice to run vamp. I'm sure you'll understand a few months later when all the streamers start running vamp.

Trailed

And none of that addresses the issue that it is still nowhere even near competitive with a stam build of any variety. In fact I imagine taking vamp as a stam build is just hindering yourself as WW may not give you the same damage reduction as mist form, but literally every other aspect of it is better than vampire.

likecats

I'm sure you'll understand a few months later when all the streamers start running vamp.

Trailed

likecats wrote: »

I'm sure you'll understand a few months later when all the streamers start running vamp.

I am actively running it now and am in a different mindset than yourself. I could care absolutely less what people I don't watch do. Use that argument more, please

Trailed

The simple fact that I can be hitting keys on my PC at the speed you would think I am attempting to play Flight of the Bumblebees on an emulator, and someone rolls up with an "R" followed by 4-2H spam, and that is enough to outright stop everything I am doing, in full legendary gear, while getting healed, is pretty ridiculous.

Commandment

Jeremy wrote: »

Trailed wrote: »

So basically if you're not a 2h build, you've got to build some sort of tank to be able to withstand the insane amount of damage it does now. The healing reductions were a suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper great idea. Now I've got a great vampire skill tree, but still get spammed to death by every scrub with a 2H weapon and dizzying skill.

I guess I'll just build full heavy armor and sacrifice some poor souls to Sithis. Hopefully the added spell and physical resist from it will help. As apparently if you're in light armor you're about as durable as wet paper.

Heavy Armor doesn't help much. My templar has over 32k resistance and over 50k health and still gets melted so fast it's just sad. It seems the only way to mitigate damage now is by blocking.

Frankly I think I'm retiring my main character from PvP because these changes have been so bad. It's just stupid, frankly. I'm going to try a few different builds on some alt characters then maybe decide from there if I want to just quit PvP all together or not.

One thing they definitely need to do on this game though... if they are going to insist with making these dramatic changes all the time that can completely ruin a person's build in PvP then THEY NEED TO GIVE US AN OPTION TO CHANGE CLASSES.

You can easily make a new character, I mean you literally share CP and gear with all your characters Lol.

Jeremy

Commandment wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Trailed wrote: »

So basically if you're not a 2h build, you've got to build some sort of tank to be able to withstand the insane amount of damage it does now. The healing reductions were a suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper great idea. Now I've got a great vampire skill tree, but still get spammed to death by every scrub with a 2H weapon and dizzying skill.

I guess I'll just build full heavy armor and sacrifice some poor souls to Sithis. Hopefully the added spell and physical resist from it will help. As apparently if you're in light armor you're about as durable as wet paper.

Heavy Armor doesn't help much. My templar has over 32k resistance and over 50k health and still gets melted so fast it's just sad. It seems the only way to mitigate damage now is by blocking.

Frankly I think I'm retiring my main character from PvP because these changes have been so bad. It's just stupid, frankly. I'm going to try a few different builds on some alt characters then maybe decide from there if I want to just quit PvP all together or not.

One thing they definitely need to do on this game though... if they are going to insist with making these dramatic changes all the time that can completely ruin a person's build in PvP then THEY NEED TO GIVE US AN OPTION TO CHANGE CLASSES.

You can easily make a new character, I mean you literally share CP and gear with all your characters Lol.

Yeah I've already started on one. Just sucks cause I've got so many quests and achievements done on my main I really don't want to have to do all those over again and I like to have all that done on my main character. It's going to annoy me if my main turns into a PvE only character. But sadly it's starting to look that way so guess I'll have to get over it.

But I just have to say again: PvP is just so bad now it's comical. It literally makes me laugh it's so dumb. What I've been doing is just shift into mist form every time more than one person attacks me and just sit there till my magicka bar runs out... lol That is literally the only way I have found I can survive more than a second against good players. It's that bad.

I was taking over 14k damage today from one hit while in Vampire Scion Form with 32k resist...all impenetrable gear. haha

Jeremy

Trailed wrote: »

The simple fact that I can be hitting keys on my PC at the speed you would think I am attempting to play Flight of the Bumblebees on an emulator, and someone rolls up with an "R" followed by 4-2H spam, and that is enough to outright stop everything I am doing, in full legendary gear, while getting healed, is pretty ridiculous.

Yeah I don't even bother with heals anymore and have taken them all off my bar. They are useless and just waste my resources in some futile effort to stay alive.

I'm better off using that magicka just to keep mist form up for longer... lol

In fact: I'm actually thinking about trading all my health in for magicka at this point just so I can stay in Mist Form longer. Because health, like armor, heals... and basically everything else is useless now as a means of defense.

Trailed

Jeremy wrote: »

Trailed wrote: »

The simple fact that I can be hitting keys on my PC at the speed you would think I am attempting to play Flight of the Bumblebees on an emulator, and someone rolls up with an "R" followed by 4-2H spam, and that is enough to outright stop everything I am doing, in full legendary gear, while getting healed, is pretty ridiculous.

Yeah I don't even bother with heals anymore and have taken them all off my bar. They are useless and just waste my resources in some futile effort to stay alive.

I'm better off using that magicka just to keep mist form up for longer... lol

In fact: I'm actually thinking about trading all my health in for magicka at this point just so I can stay in Mist Form longer. Because health, like armor, heals... and basically everything else is useless now as a means of defense.

Its pretty amazing how one patch can entirely destroy a play style for a community.

Trailed

Jeremy wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Trailed wrote: »

So basically if you're not a 2h build, you've got to build some sort of tank to be able to withstand the insane amount of damage it does now. The healing reductions were a suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper great idea. Now I've got a great vampire skill tree, but still get spammed to death by every scrub with a 2H weapon and dizzying skill.

I guess I'll just build full heavy armor and sacrifice some poor souls to Sithis. Hopefully the added spell and physical resist from it will help. As apparently if you're in light armor you're about as durable as wet paper.

Heavy Armor doesn't help much. My templar has over 32k resistance and over 50k health and still gets melted so fast it's just sad. It seems the only way to mitigate damage now is by blocking.

Frankly I think I'm retiring my main character from PvP because these changes have been so bad. It's just stupid, frankly. I'm going to try a few different builds on some alt characters then maybe decide from there if I want to just quit PvP all together or not.

One thing they definitely need to do on this game though... if they are going to insist with making these dramatic changes all the time that can completely ruin a person's build in PvP then THEY NEED TO GIVE US AN OPTION TO CHANGE CLASSES.

You can easily make a new character, I mean you literally share CP and gear with all your characters Lol.

Yeah I've already started on one. Just sucks cause I've got so many quests and achievements done on my main I really don't want to have to do all those over again and I like to have all that done on my main character. It's going to annoy me if my main turns into a PvE only character. But sadly it's starting to look that way so guess I'll have to get over it.

But I just have to say again: PvP is just so bad now it's comical. It literally makes me laugh it's so dumb. What I've been doing is just shift into mist form every time more than one person attacks me and just sit there till my magicka bar runs out... lol That is literally the only way I have found I can survive more than a second against good players. It's that bad.

I was taking over 14k damage today from one hit while in Vampire Scion Form with 32k resist...all impenetrable gear. haha

To top it off, they had to give the scion form the slowest transformation ever, and it just largely makes you a target while you're gigantic. Most of the time I will get blown up in the transformation if there are 1/2 competent players in the group.

Xargas13

Nice to see that other players see the problem. Healing became totally useless, I was using healing tether on necro, but now I totally removed it from the bar, since it is good for nothing now, switched light armor shield instead, in addition instead of wearing damage gear, I had to switch to the defense, which ok, I get it, but not my battles going on in ties because other people done the same I assume, and I am running a vampire, which with increased cost on abilities, my tie ends up in a loss, because I run out of resources, so I get [snip] by being a vampire and by my defensive set. They totally ruined the gameplay for me, before it was fun, people were dealing an ok damage, and weren't lasting like tanks, now it seems on 1 on 1 situation its a recourse battle in most cases. Good job ZOS, I'm serious, you deserve a medal.....

[Edited to remove Profanity]

Trailed

I have screencaps all morning of nothing but dizzying swing and executioner in the recap. Sometimes its a mix of that and the DW spin. Its pretty ridiculous that anyone from ZOS is failing to address this, here or in game. No way to dodge or block 4 players spamming that. Certainly can't out heal it now that there is a reduction. But at least we got a buff to our vet magicka weapons that are absolutely trash to begin with.

Jeremy

Trailed wrote: »

I have screencaps all morning of nothing but dizzying swing and executioner in the recap. Sometimes its a mix of that and the DW spin. Its pretty ridiculous that anyone from ZOS is failing to address this, here or in game. No way to dodge or block 4 players spamming that. Certainly can't out heal it now that there is a reduction. But at least we got a buff to our vet magicka weapons that are absolutely trash to begin with.

Yeah it's total crap. Any kind of defense is just impossible now. I'm just floating around in Mist Form constantly until I run out of magicka. It's the only way I can stay alive for more than a couple of seconds...lol

This is probably the worse state I have ever seen this game's PvP in honestly. It's ridiculous (comically so) and is not fun... except for maybe a laugh or two about how quickly you die and how stupid it all is.

I've already retired most of my characters from PvP at this point. Next I'm going to try running around with my speedy Night Blade and turn invisible every time someone looks at me... see if that works. lol

If that don't (and I doubt it will) I'm officially done with this game's PvP until they get rid of these awful changes. I play games to have fun - not get slaughtered by cheesy way-over-the-top player damage. So if this is the new direction this game's PvP is going in they can keep it. I have better ways to spend my time.

Madhatten512

I disagree the damage is fine.. Healing feels buggy though, and I think if they would've adjusted off healing it would've been way more effective than a flat healing nerf across the board.. There is something not functioning correctly with healing right now though. Rally has a bug where if your on your Sword and shield bar and rally expires you don't get a heal. I'm all for high damage, but the flat nerf to healing hurts small scale/solo players more than large groups.

Jeremy

Madhatten512 wrote: »

I disagree the damage is fine.. Healing feels buggy though, and I think if they would've adjusted off healing it would've been way more effective than a flat healing nerf across the board.. There is something not functioning correctly with healing right now though. Rally has a bug where if your on your Sword and shield bar and rally expires you don't get a heal. I'm all for high damage, but the flat nerf to healing hurts small scale/solo players more than large groups.

The damage is so absurd now it's funny.

If they keep PvP the way it is now - I can promise you a ton of players are going to stop doing it. Dying in seconds over and over again isn't very fun.

The only people that are going to have any kind of fun in this idiotic PvP environment are extremely offensive builds built to gank people. Now they are going to have a blast I'm sure... because they are just going to kill everyone before they can fight back.

Trailed

Great that they've posted anything on the topic. Plenty of time to close down other topics, but not address this one

Xargas13

Jeremy wrote: »

Madhatten512 wrote: »

I disagree the damage is fine.. Healing feels buggy though, and I think if they would've adjusted off healing it would've been way more effective than a flat healing nerf across the board.. There is something not functioning correctly with healing right now though. Rally has a bug where if your on your Sword and shield bar and rally expires you don't get a heal. I'm all for high damage, but the flat nerf to healing hurts small scale/solo players more than large groups.

The damage is so absurd now it's funny.

If they keep PvP the way it is now - I can promise you a ton of players are going to stop doing it. Dying in seconds over and over again isn't very fun.

The only people that are going to have any kind of fun in this idiotic PvP environment are extremely offensive builds built to gank people. Now they are going to have a blast I'm sure... because they are just going to kill everyone before they can fight back.

I commented before about recourse battle, and here is how it went tonight....I am by far not the best player in this game, haven't played it enough so I don't understand it completely to call myself a good player. But I was managing against most players, and had high streak of kills usually, and now, I have no idea what is going on. It seems that stamina players are everywhere, most of the times I cannot get a shot at them because they down in me in seconds, and if I get a shot at them, it is usually nothing to them, so it isn't even worth trying. Playing with magicka build with light armor, I watched guides, using recommended sets, but it is all for nothing. So I guess those extremely offensive builds are a thing now, and it's not fun at all.