Did the recent changes to BG came from the "council" from a social media platform?

Commandment

I noticed recently, that there are people who want to "balance" gaming for us on a different media platform. Apparently voice chat in gaming is a problem? Does this correlate with the changes to BG's, since grouping with friends on an online game gives an advantage?

So I have more good ideas for you guys since we made the first step in making BG's good, by promoting solo play only.

I would like to petition you also remove in game chat because it gives people a way to work together which isnt fair for the people who wants to play purely solo. It also gives people a way to communicate with opposing enemy members to throw their game off.

BG's should automatically remove chat when you enter the game.

It would also be a up if you remove chat from all areas of the game, because sometimes I read inappropriate things that offend and trigger me. Just like it was an option to join with others in group ques, we should remove the option for everyone else. Why should I have to mute everyone when everyone can be muted? No more conflict. Also please remove the option "kick out" in dungeons, it's not fair for the unskilled tank, or the healer who think's he's a dps to get removed because they probably are a solo.

Also please remove the score board in the bg matches, it makes me feel insecure when I see myself with a low score 0/12/1.

We should really go with the last of us 2, game of thrones, and star wars route and divert the expectations of the eso community. Let's make ESO a safespace for everyone, where we can appreciate diversity.

Ty devs, and pls keep up the good work.

Nick_Balza

I will add that dungeons and trials should be available for solo only. Because there is no challenge for experienced players and low lvl players are just bothering veterans with all that "I need a quest" or "I want to read what NPC says".

If someone has a friend, who plays ESO, he must be transferred to another channel to prevent them from cooperation to make secure people who don't have someone to play with. Guilds must be removed and all stuff may be sold to merchants only. Because people may cooperate and coordinate in guild chat or discord, what is unacceptable.

Grimlok_S

Make sure you nerf heavy attacks while you're at it!

VaranisArano

Yes, a secret council convinced ZOS to give solo-only Battleground queues a try.

The many, many complaint posts about pre-made groups had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Commandment

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yes, a secret council convinced ZOS to give solo-only Battleground queues a try.

The many, many complaint posts about pre-made groups had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I dunno man forums is filled with the opposite opinion. But lets not deter from the topic, we need to nerf all aspects that gives everyone an advantage in PvP.

Do you not also agree since teaming up and forming "premades" giving people an edge to reach competitive heights make it harder for the "solo" hardcore players to compete? Would it not give some team's an advantage if they were put in with other intelligent players who knows they have to communicate via chat to get a advantage?

This would cripple players who want to run purely solo. It's not fair. Do you not agree? An advantage is an advantage, it's no fair for players who don't want to or have the skill to use it as well. I mean, I know you might be like me and complain when we get stomped by the flithy "premaders" because we both know that 90% of the pvp populations in BG's are premades, we need to make sure no one is working together to get any sort of advantage. I'd be surprised if you opposed.

It would even be better if all names in BG's were hidden so those people who tried to que together won't know if they are playing with there friends either.

Extreme Blind play, without cooperation should be the new standard for competitive scene.

wheem_ESO

Commandment wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yes, a secret council convinced ZOS to give solo-only Battleground queues a try.

The many, many complaint posts about pre-made groups had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I dunno man forums is filled with the opposite opinion. But lets not deter from the topic, we need to nerf all aspects that gives everyone an advantage in PvP.

Do you not also agree since teaming up and forming "premades" giving people an edge to reach competitive heights make it harder for the "solo" hardcore players to compete? Would it not give some team's an advantage if they were put in with other intelligent players who knows they have to communicate via chat to get a advantage?

This would cripple players who want to run purely solo. It's not fair. Do you not agree? An advantage is an advantage, it's no fair for players who don't want to or have the skill to use it as well. I mean, I know you might be like me and complain when we get stomped by the flithy "premaders" because we both know that 90% of the pvp populations in BG's are premades, we need to make sure no one is working together to get any sort of advantage. I'd be surprised if you opposed.

It would even be better if all names in BG's were hidden so those people who tried to que together won't know if they are playing with there friends either.

Extreme Blind play, without cooperation should be the new standard for competitive scene.

Every time I read some of these arguments I'm just like IRL. How many times have I explained this to people now - including the very same, specific individuals? Here we go...yet again...

Many of us that argue in favor of solo queues can form premades ourselves, and have done so in the past. This experience is how we know that most of our games - outside of coordinated queueing with other premades - would result in facing off against teams of solo queued players, who might not even have a full group. These games tend to be very boring for everyone involved, and are oftentimes not the least bit competitive. Such boring non-competition would be amplified even further if group queues came back under the current MMR system, as there would oftentimes only be 1 or 2 high MMR players on each of the other teams.

The previous queueing system needs to stay where it is now - dead and buried. Having a premades-only queue would be fine, and if some proper balancing happened it could even potentially bring new people into Battlegrounds. But there should never again be premade-vs-solo queues. Allow duos to queue together? Maybe. I'm willing to go for that as an "experiment" and see how things work out for a patch. But 3 or 4 man groups? No.

OBJnoob

The last queueing system was plenty competitive. There’s a difference between being competitive and being equal. Competitions are specifically designed to separate the best from the worst. How could it possibly be more competitive to roll the dice on our own teammates? Can you think of a single example of a competition in real life where participants are encouraged to give their opponents a bit of their own competitive edge?

Professional athletes? Pro video gamers? Any other game? Scholarship entries? Job applications? Movie awards? Heeey now, you can’t win an Oscar for that! You had the best director and two of the best actors... that’s soooo unfair. LOL.

OBJnoob

It’s funny that some people’s idea of competitive removes all competition.

Chilly-McFreeze

OBJnoob wrote: »

The last queueing system was plenty competitive. There’s a difference between being competitive and being equal. Competitions are specifically designed to separate the best from the worst. How could it possibly be more competitive to roll the dice on our own teammates? Can you think of a single example of a competition in real life where participants are encouraged to give their opponents a bit of their own competitive edge?

Professional athletes? Pro video gamers? Any other game? Scholarship entries? Job applications? Movie awards? Heeey now, you can’t win an Oscar for that! You had the best director and two of the best actors... that’s soooo unfair. LOL.

You can twist and turn it all you like but in every sports competition there are rules that enforces a certain standard. Mostly as in not giving an edge to a participant, be it via doping or certain equipment. That standard (or edge) here is group composition.

As a word of general advice. If you compare a computer game with real live sholarships, job aplications and the likes you may take a breather. Don't get too caught up in this.

OBJnoob

I’m not caught up friend I sometimes try to give examples, parallels, and hypotheticals to help compare apples to apples and make sure we’re all defending positions that we consistently stand for and believe in. Because if you believe one thing about this but believe another thing about eeeverything similar then you are probably biased in some way.

It’s not me, who may win or may lose a battleground and call for no rule changes, who is too emotionally invested. It is clearly the opposite and it is clearly detrimental to competition.

What possible sense could it make, in the very most general and out-of-context phrasing, to say “we have a 4v4v4 pvp mode... solo que only.” I’d like to see the crazy fallout that would immediately occur if anyone dared to suggest solo ques for dungeons or trials. After all... I’d have a better chance of getting a leaderboard time if all these people weren’t “unfairly” grouping with friends of similar skill level.

It’s a great example. I’m not using smoke and mirrors my man I’m trying to give you some perspective.

Chilly-McFreeze

For someone that claims to not be agenda driven you make a lot of disingenuous comparisons. Forgoing pre-mades isn’t about achievements but about player enjoyment. Nobody likes to get facerolled. Nobody complains about premades in pve because there pugs aren’t in direct competition to those. And bc npcs don’t have forum accounts.

Commandment

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Yes, a secret council convinced ZOS to give solo-only Battleground queues a try.

The many, many complaint posts about pre-made groups had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I dunno man forums is filled with the opposite opinion. But lets not deter from the topic, we need to nerf all aspects that gives everyone an advantage in PvP.

Do you not also agree since teaming up and forming "premades" giving people an edge to reach competitive heights make it harder for the "solo" hardcore players to compete? Would it not give some team's an advantage if they were put in with other intelligent players who knows they have to communicate via chat to get a advantage?

This would cripple players who want to run purely solo. It's not fair. Do you not agree? An advantage is an advantage, it's no fair for players who don't want to or have the skill to use it as well. I mean, I know you might be like me and complain when we get stomped by the flithy "premaders" because we both know that 90% of the pvp populations in BG's are premades, we need to make sure no one is working together to get any sort of advantage. I'd be surprised if you opposed.

It would even be better if all names in BG's were hidden so those people who tried to que together won't know if they are playing with there friends either.

Extreme Blind play, without cooperation should be the new standard for competitive scene.

Every time I read some of these arguments I'm just like IRL. How many times have I explained this to people now - including the very same, specific individuals? Here we go...yet again...

Many of us that argue in favor of solo queues can form premades ourselves, and have done so in the past. This experience is how we know that most of our games - outside of coordinated queueing with other premades - would result in facing off against teams of solo queued players, who might not even have a full group. These games tend to be very boring for everyone involved, and are oftentimes not the least bit competitive. Such boring non-competition would be amplified even further if group queues came back under the current MMR system, as there would oftentimes only be 1 or 2 high MMR players on each of the other teams.

The previous queueing system needs to stay where it is now - dead and buried. Having a premades-only queue would be fine, and if some proper balancing happened it could even potentially bring new people into Battlegrounds. But there should never again be premade-vs-solo queues. Allow duos to queue together? Maybe. I'm willing to go for that as an "experiment" and see how things work out for a patch. But 3 or 4 man groups? No.

I'm not sure what you're really arguing about, but I am for solo que, but my dude you have to remember saying something is boring is an objective statement, what's boring to you and "the many" of us is not backed up by numbers. I'm not sure why you have to state "Here we go... yet again". A opinion driven with no back up is simply just an objective opinion with the view of everyone else agrees with them is yet a repetitive pointless statement to mislead people.

Please produce numbers and back up that "High MMR" players are being stuck with "Low" MMR players and that these people are bored. The usual common response to someone winning and smashing everyone is usually backed up with joy IMO. Is it not possible for one or two random people who are new, but have good game knowledge to dominate a bg field? To simply just state "HE SMASHED A TEAM! HE MUST BE HIGH MMR, AND A PREMADE" is nothing but an accusation to find an excuse.

As for making 2-5 different ques, do you really want to make ques longer? What is your statistics showing this would be a good idea? We need to show everyone who disagrees with us. I'm very interested.

New players in BG's? They're most likely going to get destroyed regardless unless they were given tips and tricks before hand, or having a extensive knowledge on how some mechanics work like animation cancelling. Not knowing the current best builds, and best set of gears and class knowledge, dodge mechanics, block mechanics will show difficulty deterring new players from playing BG's because someone else will smash them easily, especially the guy who has 0 impen. This being said, we should most likely make the game easier for these people, currently the game knowledge needed to get better is too hard and vast. Why should anyone need to study something to get better when we can just dumb it down for everyone. Let's remove gear set abilities and stats from all gears, so everyone can be equal in BG's, it's not fair that someone get's a proc advantage. I'm sure you can also agree that someone with proc sets will be bored when they smashed someone with there self made favorite build.

last if you claimed you had to explain your opinion a lot which caused you distressed and exhaustion of repeating yourself maybe you had to go against many more people who disagreed with our opinion than agree with it.


But honestly, IMO BG's aren't a place for competitiveness, there's no end game rank, besides a leader board that just shows you played longer than everyone. Which doesn't prove anything really good. It's not a league of legends type thing where you gain placements, and special rewards for reaching higher. It's a place people to go to test janky stuff and have fun with others. If you want to be competitive go Cyro CP, thats end game.


We live in a time where people need to be catered too when ever someone stronger jumps over them, and thats a subjective and objective view you can see in society today. And I agree with that. No one should be above anyone else, we all need to be common, even in a video game.

Commandment

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

For someone that claims to not be agenda driven you make a lot of disingenuous comparisons. Forgoing pre-mades isn’t about achievements but about player enjoyment. Nobody likes to get facerolled. Nobody complains about premades in pve because there pugs aren’t in direct competition to those. And bc npcs don’t have forum accounts.

Going to have to disagree on the PVE part, people do complain.

"TANK ISN'T TANKY ENOUGH"
"TANK DON'T KNOW HOW TO BLOCK"
"HEALER CAN'T HEAL GOOD ENOUGH"
"HEALER DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DPS AND HEAL"
"DPS IS A WET NOODLE"

These will all usually result to a kick, so yes people do complain in PVE, which is why we also need to implement the system and remove chat from PVE dungeons so people can''t trash talk anyone else throwing someones game off. As well as remove the kicking system, it's not fair for new players to go in a vet dlc dungeon with no gear or idea of whats happening to get removed. Everyone deserves a chance.

We need the game to be a place where everyone can be safe mentally.

OBJnoob

/\______ this.

Assuming this guy is being satirical, I agree with him.

But anyway Mr mcfreeze we both seem to be accusing each other of being disingenuous let’s dispense with that because I don’t wanna go there. Perhaps I am making mountains out of mole holes but in a specific sense to this one topic I am very genuine.

I do not enjoy battlegrounds now as much as I used to. Now I always feel like somehow, occasionally, other teams managed to be halfway premade but I did not. Or the opposite is true my team is pretty well composed and we smaaaash. Good games are very rare. More or less rare than before? I don’t know. But for what we’ve gained (?) I really don’t like what we’ve lost.

I pvp a lot. I’m not great but I think I’m pretty good. I have no problem getting rekt sometimes I am not under the illusion that nobody can do it. This feeling I have isn’t about how often I win games.

It’s about the competitive spirit. Which perhaps you think is an over the top disingenuous notion... or perhaps you think the fun is more important. But when you hear the designation PvP you already know it’s a competition brother it doesn’t matter about the busted mmr system or if the achievements are insignificant. It’s a competition because it’s literally called player versus player.

Commandment

Removed

Commandment

OBJnoob wrote: »

/\______ this.

Assuming this guy is being satirical, I agree with him.

But anyway Mr mcfreeze we both seem to be accusing each other of being disingenuous let’s dispense with that because I don’t wanna go there. Perhaps I am making mountains out of mole holes but in a specific sense to this one topic I am very genuine.

I do not enjoy battlegrounds now as much as I used to. Now I always feel like somehow, occasionally, other teams managed to be halfway premade but I did not. Or the opposite is true my team is pretty well composed and we smaaaash. Good games are very rare. More or less rare than before? I don’t know. But for what we’ve gained (?) I really don’t like what we’ve lost.

I pvp a lot. I’m not great but I think I’m pretty good. I have no problem getting rekt sometimes I am not under the illusion that nobody can do it. This feeling I have isn’t about how often I win games.

It’s about the competitive spirit. Which perhaps you think is an over the top disingenuous notion... or perhaps you think the fun is more important. But when you hear the designation PvP you already know it’s a competition brother it doesn’t matter about the busted mmr system or if the achievements are insignificant. It’s a competition because it’s literally called player versus player.

Not sure where you have been friend, but this is 2020. All notions of competitive spirit is a toxic behavior, play trash talking use to be a thing to hype one another to play better. But now everyone wants a participation trophy and acknowledgement. Why hit mute? When you can report them? Why worry about premades? When you can make sure no one can team up? Why learn in depth mechanics? When you can remove all the mechanics? It's better to make everyone the same, than have people better themselves. That is the bottom line in these days.

Back then
Person 1: "Hey Sam! You suck! You about to get a second round of beating by my hands!!!!"
Person 2: "F*** you man!!! I'll teach you a lesson next time" (Goes home/online and learns strategies)

Today
Person 1:"Hey Sam! You suck! You about to get a second round of beating by my hands!!!!"
Person 2: F*** YOU MAN, HOW DARE YOU TRASH TALK IN A GAME!!!! REPORTED!!!! I'LL MAKE SURE YOU NEVER GET TO PLAY AGAIN!! (Goes in corner of bed while breathing heavily, and typing on the forums why something is to OP, or something should be changed to benefit them)

Change Occurs
Person 1: "Hey man I got nerfed and I still beat your a**
Person 2: "RAAAAAAAHHHH (Bunch of curses and hateful wors) REPORTED, I'M TELLING THE GMS, AND ILL FIND YOUR WORK AND CALL YOUR BOSS SO HE CAN KNOW YOUR A BAD MAN!!!!( Goes back to the corner of room to complain more)

Change Occurs
Patch Notes: No Pvp, No Chatting, No Party System, Online aspect removed
Person 2: Finally no one can judge me!

Sometimes you just have to go with the flow, and let things go man. ZOS should cater to me, the Person 2 of these days.

Commandment

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530579/its-official-for-people-wondering-about-group-play#latest

For those looking for ESO devs stand on group play.

SRASinister

I think that maybe their should be a solo que for solo matches and a group que to for bgs. I didn't like the old group que that much when I used to play because it was annoying to go against a group that had half of the members being guard bot healers. Queing in solo wasn't that fun when you had to go against groups like that, and at high mmr it was the same groups over and over. Don't get me wrong it was fun queing in my friends and syncing our ults, but the players who queued in solo probably felt the same as I did when they went against our premade.

I think there should be a solo que or even duo, team que, and a who cares queue.

Hanokihs

OBJnoob wrote: »

I’m not caught up friend I sometimes try to give examples, parallels, and hypotheticals to help compare apples to apples and make sure we’re all defending positions that we consistently stand for and believe in. Because if you believe one thing about this but believe another thing about eeeverything similar then you are probably biased in some way.

It’s not me, who may win or may lose a battleground and call for no rule changes, who is too emotionally invested. It is clearly the opposite and it is clearly detrimental to competition.

What possible sense could it make, in the very most general and out-of-context phrasing, to say “we have a 4v4v4 pvp mode... solo que only.” I’d like to see the crazy fallout that would immediately occur if anyone dared to suggest solo ques for dungeons or trials. After all... I’d have a better chance of getting a leaderboard time if all these people weren’t “unfairly” grouping with friends of similar skill level.

It’s a great example. I’m not using smoke and mirrors my man I’m trying to give you some perspective.

It's actually a horrible example, because people have been asking for solo dungeons/etc for a long time. Not because they can't find groups, but because it's such a pain to deal with the dungeon finder and the "like-minded individuals" they're repeatedly told to look for who keep leaving. The real purpose of dungeons these days is to grind gear and get the daily reward, both of which would be faster with solo-mode. Especially with all the fake roles that are out there, who would also presumably prefer to just queue by themselves so they don't have to lie about not being a DPS or whatever.

And personally, even though I know it was meant as satire, if there was a way to ensure that voice comms are permanently off on console it would be great. Because Xbox generally does a thing where you get put in voice chat every time you zone, and it's annoying AF.

OBJnoob

I don’t even know what to say. Half of you wish you were playing Skyrim alone and you don’t even know it. The true beauty and uniqueness of this game is totally lost on some people.

Do you know what mmo means?

Do you know what pvp means?

SRASinister

Most mmos have battle ground modes which were randomized solo ques from the start. I already play either solo or small group open world anyway. If I wanted to Pub stomp with my small group I would just go into the non cp campaign anyways.

I frankly like the randomness of solo que right now because I can get stuck with some horrible teammates that which increases the competitiveness for me to have to carry my team, heal myself, and actually use my skills instead of just ulti dumping another team. I guess more than liking the solo que I like how they reset mmr which I wish they would reset every new dlc patch.

If people want group ques back then I'm fine with that, but to think most people liked premades is just not true. The amount of streamers and forum threads whining about it as well as previous lower population in the bgs themselves begs to differ.

Commandment

SRASinister wrote: »

Most mmos have battle ground modes which were randomized solo ques from the start. I already play either solo or small group open world anyway. If I wanted to Pub stomp with my small group I would just go into the non cp campaign anyways.

I frankly like the randomness of solo que right now because I can get stuck with some horrible teammates that which increases the competitiveness for me to have to carry my team, heal myself, and actually use my skills instead of just ulti dumping another team. I guess more than liking the solo que I like how they reset mmr which I wish they would reset every new dlc patch.

If people want group ques back then I'm fine with that, but to think most people liked premades is just not true. The amount of streamers and forum threads whining about it as well as previous lower population in the bgs themselves begs to differ.

Which MMO?

Nord_Raseri

SRASinister

Commandment wrote: »

SRASinister wrote: »

Most mmos have battle ground modes which were randomized solo ques from the start. I already play either solo or small group open world anyway. If I wanted to Pub stomp with my small group I would just go into the non cp campaign anyways.

I frankly like the randomness of solo que right now because I can get stuck with some horrible teammates that which increases the competitiveness for me to have to carry my team, heal myself, and actually use my skills instead of just ulti dumping another team. I guess more than liking the solo que I like how they reset mmr which I wish they would reset every new dlc patch.

If people want group ques back then I'm fine with that, but to think most people liked premades is just not true. The amount of streamers and forum threads whining about it as well as previous lower population in the bgs themselves begs to differ.

Which MMO?

You know after I typed that I actually got to thinking that I remembered the queue in other mmos and being put on random teams in bgs until I remembered I could do those same bgs with my friends. I was thinking of WoW, Neverwinter, Tera, GW and some others wrongly remembering queueing up solo thinking that they also had solo random queues as well as ones you could with friends. I remembered those wrongly I realize now. I do think they should keep a random solo queue for bgs if people want it, but they should restore group queueing as well for people who want to play with friends. I hate the heal bot premades, but I bet this heal nerf will hurt them in no cp anyways.

Vaoh

Game chat usually disappears until we relog anyway. Doesn’t make much difference if they remove game chat or not

All groups I’ve ran with go into PSN Parties ever since the party player cap was increased.