Change Vampire to work like Werewolf

Malprave

As it stands now nobody is going to use this skill line. It's been coded into a cul-de-sac it can't get out of. The abilities have been deemed too powerful so they must come with massive penalties. As somebody who participates in both PVP and PVE I can say positively that I'm not going to use this.

Why can't it work like werewolf? I mean some of the stealth abilities could work in human form but in combat you would just transform revealing yopurself to be a vampire and then have access to a spammable, fear/hypnosis, damage boost/frenzy, etc.

Feeding would serve to keep you transformed longer.

The animations are already there, The existing werewolf skill line provides a framework.

The skill line as it is now isn't fun. Please don't do what so many games do.

Don't ship something and forget to put the fun in the box.

nesakinter

Pretty much, every Nightblade will use it in PvP. Their kit synergies perfectly with vampire.

Thevampirenight

No Vampire abilties should be usable in humanoid form, Vampires are not Lycanthropes.

Malprave

nesakinter wrote: »

Pretty much, every Nightblade will use it in PvP. Their kit synergies perfectly with vampire.

So you see the skill line as being useful for hit-and-run/ganking style play?

I guess I can see that but outside of that who is going to use it? It’s useless in PVE rotations now that you’ll have to toggle frenzy too much.

Cameron991

I believe it would be a cool idea to keep the abilities they have now but when you go into scion form you have access to a whole new bar of vampire abilities. The NPCs in the Greymoor chapter look so much cooler then ours when it comes to looking and feeling like vampires and if they can’t give us them as active abilities they can at least give it to us in blood scion form

ShadowHvo

Vampires are not lycanthropes.

Malprave

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Vampires are not lycanthropes.

True. But what they’ve got here is a useless skill line. The way they’ve got it now it’s not fun and nobody is going to use it.

We can endlessly debate tweaks to the skills I suppose or people can suggest radical changes like the one I proposed that will never get adopted.

The sad truth is this is going live pretty much like it is now with even highly skilled players not wanting to touch it with a ten foot pole.

technohic

They reduced the regular ability cost penalty enough, I will use Vamp in PvP. Probably not any of the abilities other than mist form and maybe the ultimate.

I would say it would be cool if it were somewhere in between where vamp is now and where werewolf is. Maybe have some passives and abilities in non-ultimate form, but then the ultimate open up others and its own skill bar. It wont happen for a long time though; as this is their revamp and they only have about a week for last testing any changes then they wont touch it outside of minor tweaks until they decide to revamp it again. Maybe a couple years.

navystylz_ESO

Cameron991 wrote: »

I believe it would be a cool idea to keep the abilities they have now but when you go into scion form you have access to a whole new bar of vampire abilities. The NPCs in the Greymoor chapter look so much cooler then ours when it comes to looking and feeling like vampires and if they can’t give us them as active abilities they can at least give it to us in blood scion form

This! Then lock it behind being stage 4 so you're actually rewarded for embracing your vampirism.

Cameron991

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Cameron991 wrote: »

I believe it would be a cool idea to keep the abilities they have now but when you go into scion form you have access to a whole new bar of vampire abilities. The NPCs in the Greymoor chapter look so much cooler then ours when it comes to looking and feeling like vampires and if they can’t give us them as active abilities they can at least give it to us in blood scion form

This! Then lock it behind being stage 4 so you're actually rewarded for embracing your vampirism.

Definitely agree! Make us rewarded for playing as a stage 4 vampire. I’m not asking to be Op or anything... I just want to be rewarded by feeling more vampiric

Spectral_Force

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Cameron991 wrote: »

I believe it would be a cool idea to keep the abilities they have now but when you go into scion form you have access to a whole new bar of vampire abilities. The NPCs in the Greymoor chapter look so much cooler then ours when it comes to looking and feeling like vampires and if they can’t give us them as active abilities they can at least give it to us in blood scion form

This! Then lock it behind being stage 4 so you're actually rewarded for embracing your vampirism.

Hmm, locking various abilities behind higher Vampire stages is an idea worth entertaining, at least. That way these abilities could be made more powerful at the cost of actually having to endure a higher stage to be able to use them (and all the drawbacks that entails).
For example, Eviscerate and (if it remains in the game) Blood Frenzy are unlocked at Stage 1, Drain is unlocked at Stage 2 (still needs a damage buff though), Mist is unlocked at Stage 3 and Mesmerize is for Stage 4. Blood Scion and its morphs can still be used at Stage 1, with Perfect Scion allowing you to use all abilities no matter your current stage (it makes sense since you're going to Stage 5). It even makes Perfect Scion act like a pseudo-WW form if you go from Stage 1 directly to 5.
Just throwing this idea out there for further discussion.

Vevvev

Spectral_Force wrote: »

Hmm, locking various abilities behind higher Vampire stages is an idea worth entertaining, at least. That way these abilities could be made more powerful at the cost of actually having to endure a higher stage to be able to use them (and all the drawbacks that entails).
For example, Eviscerate and (if it remains in the game) Blood Frenzy are unlocked at Stage 1, Drain is unlocked at Stage 2 (still needs a damage buff though), Mist is unlocked at Stage 3 and Mesmerize is for Stage 4. Blood Scion and its morphs can still be used at Stage 1, with Perfect Scion allowing you to use all abilities no matter your current stage (it makes sense since you're going to Stage 5). It even makes Perfect Scion act like a pseudo-WW form if you go from Stage 1 directly to 5.
Just throwing this idea out there for further discussion.

Would also fit somewhat with lore when you consider the fact that in Oblivion and Skyrim you gained access to new powers when you progressed through the stages. Like in Skyrim Stage 2 gave you access to vampiric seduction, which is basically mesmerize in this game, and stage 4 gave you an innate invisibility skill. Oblivion had Hunter's Sight which gives you night eye and detect life, Vampiric Seduction, Reign of Terror which silences and demoralizes, and Embrace of Shadows which turns you invisible and gives you Night Eye. They unlocked in that order with Hunter's sight being first and Embrace of Shadows being last.

Vea

No, they are different. Even with all the problems we know i don't want vamp become like lycan.

Vevvev

Vampires have always been able to use their abilities normally and it was not until Skyrim that the concept of a vampire lord form was introduced. This idea makes absolutely no sense at all.

WraithShadow13

To be honest, i think the ultimate should be what works like werewolves. As a Vampire, you get all the normal abilities and such but activating your ultimate, the scion form, Transforms you with the same timer werewolves get. Power bar would either remain the same with vampire abilities getting a massive boost or new abilities to accommodate the much larger form.

Untransformed vampires should remain the same though. Admittedly, it would be cool if the werewolf's passives gave a little rp fun to the non-transformed player, too.

starkerealm

Malprave wrote: »

nesakinter wrote: »

Pretty much, every Nightblade will use it in PvP. Their kit synergies perfectly with vampire.

So you see the skill line as being useful for hit-and-run/ganking style play?

With sprint, literally applying a cloak? Yes.

I'd be more worried about other classes, ironically. A Stamina Necromancer Vampire (a Stamcropire?) would be pretty disgusting with that sprinting cloak.

In PvE? Yeah, I'm hoping there will be a solid application, but right now, at least for my stam characters, not so much.

Radiance

I'm not even 100% down with the Ultimate Transformation idea without the wings it already looks like some ambiguous out of place demon, I don't want that to be the focus of Vampirism.

Werewolves Transform, Vampires are always vampires, these are 2 different mythologies that are trying to be equalized and they're just not the same. They need to add some new curse or something that can be a Stam and Magicka Parallel to Vamp and WW.

Moose_Scout

Malprave wrote: »

As it stands now nobody is going to use this skill line. It's been coded into a cul-de-sac it can't get out of. The abilities have been deemed too powerful so they must come with massive penalties. As somebody who participates in both PVP and PVE I can say positively that I'm not going to use this.

Why can't it work like werewolf? I mean some of the stealth abilities could work in human form but in combat you would just transform revealing yopurself to be a vampire and then have access to a spammable, fear/hypnosis, damage boost/frenzy, etc.

Feeding would serve to keep you transformed longer.

The animations are already there, The existing werewolf skill line provides a framework.

The skill line as it is now isn't fun. Please don't do what so many games do.

Don't ship something and forget to put the fun in the box.

I disagree. I agree with the devs that there should be a human form and a morph... I think we just need to make sure that the negatives aren't so bad that no uses it... On the other hand, the negatives need to be severe enough that not everyone IS a vampire.

ccfeeling

Vampire transformation with timer .

I sure the vampires clan drop at least 50 %

starkerealm

ccfeeling wrote: »

Vampire transformation with timer .

I sure the vampires clan drop at least 50 %

The transform is already on a timer. You're going to see a huge population drop from the changes, not because of a timer on the transform.

Opalblade

This would really suck for those of us who want to be vampires without being vampire lords.

Deathlord92

No this idea makes no sense to me vampires have always had there own set of abilities and been able to use them in human form.

Stravokov

in my opinion, any ability that costs health is garbage. health is already difficult to maintain in pvp/end game PVE for ANY class. i think Drain essence should be an instant ability and the main source a vampire heals. as it stands, it is a weak channeled heal ability (aka easily interruptible). Blood frenzy costing health for slightly more damage? doesn't seem worth it. in pvp you will be one shot more easily with that ability on, specially with that crazy new mythic ring that adds 25% dmg boost. then we have Eviscerate that also uses your health pool...

where are the vampire healing abilities to counter/maintain sustainability from the two abilities that will be draining your health? not to mention -100% health regen in stage 4... how is Drain essence going to keep me alive in pvp and PVE?

I thought Vampires are all about Stealing health to sustain their own unlife. apparently, they are sadomasochist and would rather drain their own life? [snip] i get they want to force us into using the entire vampire kit, but at least give us a Skill line that makes sense and is viable to a point where we can play the role effectively enough to get by. i actually want to play a stage 4 vampire with all the abilities, but from what i have been reading it just doesn't make any sense.

IN my opinion Drain essense should be a direct heal, and Blood frenzy should be a gap closer that puts on a HOT effect when used. that at least would counter the two life draining abilities that will be constantly costing you health.

[edited for bashing]

Sugram22

Thevampirenight wrote: »

No Vampire abilties should be usable in humanoid form, Vampires are not Lycanthropes.

Skyrim disagrees

then they should add second type of vampire in the game, ancient vampire

skyrim vamp was much cooler, i think it had less skills but was cooler, i want ancient vampire like in skyrim not this boring crap, u can add some skills to it not do 100% same but basically same, hes able to walk and also able to hover cause of wings and i think vampire form lasted as long as u wanted and that remains same in ESO to, or make it soo feeding keeps the form or some drain skill that resets duration, but basically if u play well u stay in that form (it has 1morhe for magic other1 for psy damage, even normal claw attack to rip in to ppl similar to how u attack with ww, its the first vamp form skill for psy damage), ofc ancient vampire will also have vampire skills that work in human form to like life steal/leach and teleportation where u turn in to swarm of bats, it resembles sorcerer jolt but instead of lightning effect u will have bat swarm, then other vamp skills for stamina and magic skill tree for each but ofc u can moph them in to opposite to play around with it a bit and make interesting builds, 1 vampire skill is blood knight its active constant skill like bound armor/aegis use to be and when its on u look like ur in full red plate armor (so after u activate it it stays on unless u deactivate it), u gain psy resistance and spell absorbed like light armor shield skill but no shield, depending on morphe it either replenishes ur magic or stamina, Z can come up with rest of the skills, BDW they should have vampiric eyes but it won't cause ppl to fear them cause ppl know that they are not as dangerous/not prone to attack ppl cause they can feed on any blood, ofv it helps with intimation, ppl are not scared off their presence but don't want to F with them so with if their kind asks ppl are more likely to loosen their tongue

ancient vampire doesn't have stages, hes strong as stage2 - 3 and just gets power up from feeding (to get stage4 power) with no penalties sins ancient vampire is superior like commonly in stories, they can feed on anything with blood running trough their veins

Deathlord92 wrote: »

No this idea makes no sense to me vampires have always had there own set of abilities and been able to use them in human form.

have u forgotten ancient vampires from skyrim?

Stravokov wrote: »

in my opinion, any ability that costs health is garbage. health is already difficult to maintain in pvp/end game PVE for ANY class. i think Drain essence should be an instant ability and the main source a vampire heals. as it stands, it is a weak channeled heal ability (aka easily interruptible). Blood frenzy costing health for slightly more damage? doesn't seem worth it. in pvp you will be one shot more easily with that ability on, specially with that crazy new mythic ring that adds 25% dmg boost. then we have Eviscerate that also uses your health pool...

where are the vampire healing abilities to counter/maintain sustainability from the two abilities that will be draining your health? not to mention -100% health regen in stage 4... how is Drain essence going to keep me alive in pvp and PVE?

I thought Vampires are all about Stealing health to sustain their own unlife. apparently, they are sadomasochist and would rather drain their own life? [snip] i get they want to force us into using the entire vampire kit, but at least give us a Skill line that makes sense and is viable to a point where we can play the role effectively enough to get by. i actually want to play a stage 4 vampire with all the abilities, but from what i have been reading it just doesn't make any sense.

IN my opinion Drain essense should be a direct heal, and Blood frenzy should be a gap closer that puts on a HOT effect when used. that at least would counter the two life draining abilities that will be constantly costing you health.

100% agree

[edited to remove quote]

Lapin_Logic

Sugram22 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

No Vampire abilties should be usable in humanoid form, Vampires are not Lycanthropes.

Skyrim disagrees

/quote]
100% agree

☠️👻👻👻👻 Necro thread

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in May 2020. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

Thank you for your understanding.