Is Crystal Blast still that bad?

MincVinyl

JinMori wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

It was never bad in PvP if you knew how to use it...

It's bad as a spammable because it can be bashed and if you're using it just for the stun the channel makes it easy to block. How is it even a little bit good?

You'd be surprised at how many people chasing after me in a ball never see it coming... It's actually the only time people do not get angry over dying, because they know its funny and it usually results in laughs

Plus no one would ever dare come to the forums or shout in chat about dying to crystal blast So it is nerfproof. Though I really shouldn't jinx it like that...

Also its not that bad as a spammable even in melee range because after you roll, in the same time you have for the dodge frame after rolling you can cast the skill while also gaining distance. There is also CC immunity, when it works, which is great because then I cast it point-blank. Oh... well maybe not everyone plays all there mag classes in melee...hmmm...

I better not go into any more detail, I can feel a hammer hovering over me.

This is a skill I've only seen 16k health zerg sorcs use on PCNA. I can only think of one person that uses Crystal Blast in pvp and they get 1shot every time they get 1 step out the zerg. (Its a DC Grand Overlord)

Lol, how can you be a grand overlord and still use blast? It's a wonder.

I see, a lot of people being overly protective of this skill, look, it's garbage, it was always garbage, and always will be until they change it, especially when the other morph is crystal frag, one of the best sorc skills.

No good player will ever take blast. At least, this thread is a good way to see which people i should basically, never take their opinion seriously, so there's that. I guess something good comes out of every thread.

same

Kadoin

JinMori wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

It was never bad in PvP if you knew how to use it...

It's bad as a spammable because it can be bashed and if you're using it just for the stun the channel makes it easy to block. How is it even a little bit good?

You'd be surprised at how many people chasing after me in a ball never see it coming... It's actually the only time people do not get angry over dying, because they know its funny and it usually results in laughs

Plus no one would ever dare come to the forums or shout in chat about dying to crystal blast So it is nerfproof. Though I really shouldn't jinx it like that...

Also its not that bad as a spammable even in melee range because after you roll, in the same time you have for the dodge frame after rolling you can cast the skill while also gaining distance. There is also CC immunity, when it works, which is great because then I cast it point-blank. Oh... well maybe not everyone plays all there mag classes in melee...hmmm...

I better not go into any more detail, I can feel a hammer hovering over me.

This is a skill I've only seen 16k health zerg sorcs use on PCNA. I can only think of one person that uses Crystal Blast in pvp and they get 1shot every time they get 1 step out the zerg. (Its a DC Grand Overlord)

Lol, how can you be a grand overlord and still use blast? It's a wonder.

I see, a lot of people being overly protective of this skill, look, it's garbage, it was always garbage, and always will be until they change it, especially when the other morph is crystal frag, one of the best sorc skills.

No good player will ever take blast.At least, this thread is a good way to see which people i should basically, never take their opinion seriously, so there's that. I guess something good comes out of every thread.

Actually, no good player would see any skill as trash because someone on Youtube that gets farmed repeatedly when the camera is off said a skill is bad, or a consensus of forum users that get farmed on a daily basis. They would know that despite the noise on the forums, every skill has its use and place.

But it's always the decision of the individual to determine what is best for their build in PvP. If you like a skill with a proc chance that needs to be activated to be any useful (plus is still easily dodged) vs. one that can be used vs. rollers and a group chasing you + works well with certain skill and gear combinations, then that's great. Not my issue if you or anyone else don't know any better.

Find anyone with a brain and they will dodge or block crystal fragment like no tomorrow because it's entirely predictable to anyone that is actually "good." That's if the sorcs using it can even outdamage HoTs on their defensive shield-stacking builds - oh wait, they can't that's why they come to the forums and cry for nerfs of other classes.

As for only seeing players in a zerg use that skill -- you can only observe what you participate in...

JinMori

Kadoin wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

It was never bad in PvP if you knew how to use it...

It's bad as a spammable because it can be bashed and if you're using it just for the stun the channel makes it easy to block. How is it even a little bit good?

You'd be surprised at how many people chasing after me in a ball never see it coming... It's actually the only time people do not get angry over dying, because they know its funny and it usually results in laughs

Plus no one would ever dare come to the forums or shout in chat about dying to crystal blast So it is nerfproof. Though I really shouldn't jinx it like that...

Also its not that bad as a spammable even in melee range because after you roll, in the same time you have for the dodge frame after rolling you can cast the skill while also gaining distance. There is also CC immunity, when it works, which is great because then I cast it point-blank. Oh... well maybe not everyone plays all there mag classes in melee...hmmm...

I better not go into any more detail, I can feel a hammer hovering over me.

This is a skill I've only seen 16k health zerg sorcs use on PCNA. I can only think of one person that uses Crystal Blast in pvp and they get 1shot every time they get 1 step out the zerg. (Its a DC Grand Overlord)

Lol, how can you be a grand overlord and still use blast? It's a wonder.

I see, a lot of people being overly protective of this skill, look, it's garbage, it was always garbage, and always will be until they change it, especially when the other morph is crystal frag, one of the best sorc skills.

No good player will ever take blast.At least, this thread is a good way to see which people i should basically, never take their opinion seriously, so there's that. I guess something good comes out of every thread.

Actually, no good player would see any skill as trash because someone on Youtube that gets farmed repeatedly when the camera is off said a skill is bad, or a consensus of forum users that get farmed on a daily basis. They would know that despite the noise on the forums, every skill has its use and place.

But it's always the decision of the individual to determine what is best for their build in PvP. If you like a skill with a proc chance that needs to be activated to be any useful (plus is still easily dodged) vs. one that can be used vs. rollers and a group chasing you + works well with certain skill and gear combinations, then that's great. Not my issue if you or anyone else don't know any better.

Find anyone with a brain and they will dodge or block crystal fragment like no tomorrow because it's entirely predictable to anyone that is actually "good." That's if the sorcs using it can even outdamage HoTs on their defensive shield-stacking builds - oh wait, they can't that's why they come to the forums and cry for nerfs of other classes.

As for only seeing players in a zerg use that skill -- you can only observe what you participate in...

You are trying way too hard to appear as knowledgeable, and reasonable.

Look, there is a reason why no good player every uses this skill, and you can sit here and comment on how everybody is wrong, but it's you, you are wrong.

The only crystal blast players i meet in pvp, are dead players, they may get a few kills, but as soon as they are pressured they drop like flies. This should tell you which kind of players this skill attracts. Good players do not use this skill, because they know better.

grannas211

Its a contender for one of the worst skills in the game.

TropicsDelight

With the certainty of the noob reveal I will admit I use it. I am primarily running solo PVE doing overland exp grinding in dense mob clusters and soloing in public dungeons. The cast time is a non-issue with packs of low hp trash as the spell tends to proc the recast a lot and the pack does not make it into melee range.

The cast time is an issue on the named mobs as mobility is required and after the initial CB burst at the start of the fight it is very hard to get CB's off without eating melee attacks or standing in fire.

At best it is very niche, and that niche seems to be soloing trash. It is pretty good for that, but that is not a very important niche in the grand scheme of things. In raiding I fear it would be useless even on trash as at dolomens it is often in mid cast when a mob dies too fast and you miss both the single target and AOE damage when that occurs.

If I can figure out an alternative effective AOE setup for groups of trash I will respec to frags for the boss fights because I think blast is useless at trying to solo world bosses due to the cast time removing the ability to block. That said, I tried some AOE alternatives for a glass cannon build (just under 10k hps unbuffed) and nothing is nearly effective as ranged blast bombing packs of trash. So many AOE spells focus around the PC requiring tanking hits or are small areas on the ground mobs immediately vacate.

I have a magika necro I play that is quite tanky and I can do slow AOE burns of tightly clustered packs while they attack me and heal with the scythe attack, my sorc has no prayer of doing the same, it would be spamming shield and pet heals and blocking/running away most of the fight instead of doing DPS. Many bigger boss fights devolve to pet kiting with the occasional spell/ light attack I can get off, which is lame but works up to the public dungeon boss level and fails at WB level.

I hit the wall of limits on my current style on some group quest with giant shards I had to enter to fight packs of atronachs. I could not burst down the packs as they had multiple tougher mobs with 200-300k hps and I could not finish them off or take the damage when they got into range. They tore my shield apart, pet heal spams and reshield ate the magika, and I could not counter with CB because of the cast time. If I want to move into that content solo it will require a different approach then CB bombing. Somehow I need to still be able to kill the 6 or so lower hp part of the pack, then deal with 3 higher hp mobs that hit hard. CB made the 6 easy but the last 3 were nigh impossible.

JayKwellen

So I played against a sorc in a BG last night that was just furiously, furiously, smashing his crystal blast button.

I kept getting stunned and desynched, often without seeing anything on my screen at all, and I was like "wth is going on?" Naturally I just assumed it was a snipe spammer (because of course there was also one of those too).

But then I saw him. There he was, in all his glory, casting blast after blast after blast after blast. I was honestly kind of impressed. Like, look at the balls on this dude, coming up in here doing that. What a legend.

But, then I grew tired of being stunned by invisible projectiles and getting desynched literally worse than snipe, which I didn't even think possible.

So I had enough. I would find wherever he was perched then go proc my spectral bow and farm ulti off someone. After that I would go straight to him just to two shot him with a soul harvest + spectral bow combo. Over and over again. I'm sorry for tormenting you crystal blast bro, but you deserved it.

That's it. That's my story.

YandereGirlfriend

Kadoin wrote: »

They would know that despite the noise on the forums, every skill has its use and place

I think that in this instance, the good of the many (all stamSorcs) outweighs what is good for the few (you and a small handful of PvE questers).

Given the paucity of actual Sorc skills that stamSorcs have access to, I think that any fair-minded person would say that it's alright for magSorcs to sacrifice an obscure morph or two for the sake of increasing class equity. (We'll take Crystal Blast and the other Atronach morph and maybe call it even.)

As it is now, stamSorcs are like Cinderella and magSorcs are the wicked step-sisters constantly scheming up justifications for why we have to continue wearing potato sacks while you wear silks.

Alucardo

JinMori wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

It was never bad in PvP if you knew how to use it...

It's bad as a spammable because it can be bashed and if you're using it just for the stun the channel makes it easy to block. How is it even a little bit good?

You'd be surprised at how many people chasing after me in a ball never see it coming... It's actually the only time people do not get angry over dying, because they know its funny and it usually results in laughs

Plus no one would ever dare come to the forums or shout in chat about dying to crystal blast So it is nerfproof. Though I really shouldn't jinx it like that...

Also its not that bad as a spammable even in melee range because after you roll, in the same time you have for the dodge frame after rolling you can cast the skill while also gaining distance. There is also CC immunity, when it works, which is great because then I cast it point-blank. Oh... well maybe not everyone plays all there mag classes in melee...hmmm...

I better not go into any more detail, I can feel a hammer hovering over me.

This is a skill I've only seen 16k health zerg sorcs use on PCNA. I can only think of one person that uses Crystal Blast in pvp and they get 1shot every time they get 1 step out the zerg. (Its a DC Grand Overlord)

Lol, how can you be a grand overlord and still use blast? It's a wonder.

You should know that PvP ranks in ESO are about as useful as teats on a breastplate. Many people get high ranks by zerging down people while spamming bombard and other annoying skills. In small scale or on their own, they flop around like a fish out of water.

[Snip]

[Edited for circumventing bypass]

Starlock

Alucardo wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Meanwhile, crystal blast continues to be useful and fun to various players, so please remember that, yeah?

H.. how is it fun? I'd really like to understand how it is more fun than seeing your hands glow purple, allowing you to throw a bullet with the damage of a truck full of nuclear weapons in your enemies face for minimal cost. How is standing there hurling slow moving rocks with a cast time more enjoyable? HOW? What am I missing here??

I understand many who regular these forums have a hard time grasping this, but various players don't have an issue with cast times. Especially when the ability hits like a truck, stuns (and stuns are always fun - even more so now when Zenimax has consistently been removing them from the game), and has a respectable AoE damage on top of that. I'd never consider running the so-called "popular" morph if I had a sorcerer who specialized in that tree. It's boring by comparison and I don't understand why the fun morph gets trashed so much. There are certainly skill morphs in this game that have been lackluster and/or boring, but that isn't one of them. Boring is the middle name of skills like Molten Weapons and both of its morphs... such an un-fun skill.

You don't have to agree. I'm only posting in here to be the reminder of player diversity and that no, the skill isn't "bad" to everyone.

iCaliban

Starlock wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Meanwhile, crystal blast continues to be useful and fun to various players, so please remember that, yeah?

H.. how is it fun? I'd really like to understand how it is more fun than seeing your hands glow purple, allowing you to throw a bullet with the damage of a truck full of nuclear weapons in your enemies face for minimal cost. How is standing there hurling slow moving rocks with a cast time more enjoyable? HOW? What am I missing here??

I understand many who regular these forums have a hard time grasping this, but various players don't have an issue with cast times. Especially when the ability hits like a truck, stuns (and stuns are always fun - even more so now when Zenimax has consistently been removing them from the game), and has a respectable AoE damage on top of that. I'd never consider running the so-called "popular" morph if I had a sorcerer who specialized in that tree. It's boring by comparison and I don't understand why the fun morph gets trashed so much.

You don't have to agree. I'm only posting in here to be the reminder of player diversity and that no, the skill isn't "bad" to everyone.

Your random enjoyment of a skill every single even SLIGHTLY serious content runner NEVER slots shouldn take precedence over game balance. Stam sorcs need attention. No mag sorc who isnt doing some weird roleplay thing would even consider this skill. Giving it to stam sorcs is a no brainer.

PS: you can hard cast the other morph too. And if you drop wall of elements you can even role play the same way on overland mobs. See? Win win

Starlock

iCaliban wrote: »

Your random enjoyment of a skill every single even SLIGHTLY serious content runner NEVER slots shouldn take precedence over game balance.

My enjoyment isn't random, I'm not sure what you mean by "serious," and I never said that whatever you believe is "serious" shouldn't take precedence over... whatever you believe "game balance" looks like.

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam sorcs need attention. No mag sorc who isnt doing some weird roleplay thing would even consider this skill. Giving it to stam sorcs is a no brainer.

In your opinion - it's more complex when we take into account the diversity of the player base. Remember, the game appeals to many players for different reasons. The developers take that into account, unlike some (perhaps most people) who frequent this forum.

Remember:

Starlock wrote: »

You don't have to agree. I'm only posting in here to be the reminder of player diversity and that no, the skill isn't "bad" to everyone.

I'm not interested in arguing.

iCaliban

@Starlock

By "serious" i mean "any content that isnt overland." You are quite right that roleplaying and enjoying questing is 100% intended gameplay that a lot of players enjoy. You are entitled to enjoy it. I did a bunch of it myself when I started playing eso 4 years ago.

You are not however making informed comments about class balance. Your opinion in defense of a skill that is not used in anything but the most faceroll of content does not have *merit*

A handful of players who enjoy an EXTREMELY niche skill, one Ive seen used fewer than a dozen times in 4 years is not sufficient reason to hold back thousands of stam sorc players who have a very suboptimal class toolkit.

Starlock

Sorry, did I post this in the "class balance" forum? I thought this was the "combat and character mechanics" forum. My mistake, apparently. Where's the "class balance" forum?

Alucardo

iCaliban wrote: »

@Starlock

By "serious" i mean "any content that isnt overland." You are quite right that roleplaying and enjoying questing is 100% intended gameplay that a lot of players enjoy. You are entitled to enjoy it. I did a bunch of it myself when I started playing eso 4 years ago.

You are not however making informed comments about class balance. Your opinion in defense of a skill that is not used in anything but the most faceroll of content does not have *merit*

A handful of players who enjoy an EXTREMELY niche skill, one Ive seen used fewer than a dozen times in 4 years is not sufficient reason to hold back thousands of stam sorc players who have a very suboptimal class toolkit.

This is very well put. When I first started I also used extremely weird builds and non-optimal skills just because I thought they looked awesome. However, when I went on to do real pve content (pledges, trials, etc) and eventually PvP, I soon abandoned all those fun little abilities for ones that performed better.
It's simply not beneficial to stand in place throwing crystal blast, which is why you won't see anybody use it, apart from those guys who get wiped in Cyrodiil just by looking at them.
Obviously I don't want to take away a skill someone enjoys using, because let's be honest, even the worst skills somebody will like it. But it's a VERY unpractical ability that you will not use if you venture out beyond overland mobs, so it should be given to a larger group of players who use the class in competitive situations to make them more balanced overall.
I'm not sure if you've tried it, but Crystal Fragments is a very fun ability to use. When I first switched to it I got so excited every time I saw it proc. It got me so excited I put crystal frags on both bars just so it would proc more often xD
Talking about it makes me want to respec to magicka. I need to stop reading this thread before I get tempted.

Starlock

Alucardo wrote: »

This is very well put. When I first started I also used extremely weird builds and non-optimal skills just because I thought they looked awesome. However, when I went on to do real pve content (pledges, trials, etc) and eventually PvP, I soon abandoned all those fun little abilities for ones that performed better.

For lots of things you don't necessarily have to, though. I suppose that's my point - folks have different gameplay priorities and will approach that in different ways, and it doesn't feel fair to make a blanket statement of "this is trash" when others use it for varying types of content (yes, including stuff like pledges/trials) successfully. Is it necessarily optimal for purpose X, Y, or Z? No, but for various players that particular flavor of optimal isn't their priority - they're looking to optimize something else. Maybe it's just something they find fun, maybe they focus on playing games to relax and don't sweat about being competitive, or whatever it is. It just bugs me when other perspectives get ignored, I guess? And that's really the only reason why I posted in this thread. I don't use the ability on my sorcerer because it doesn't fit his character, but I really enjoyed playing with the morph that people hate - enough that I'm tempted to create a "dark magic" focused sorcerer who uses it someday. If that morph went away and the boring one remained, I'd be pretty bummed. That said, if they made an interesting stamina morph, that might be fun too. I deleted my stamina sorcerer a while back because they were too boring to play. More stamina morphs would definitely help with that.

iCaliban

Starlock wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

This is very well put. When I first started I also used extremely weird builds and non-optimal skills just because I thought they looked awesome. However, when I went on to do real pve content (pledges, trials, etc) and eventually PvP, I soon abandoned all those fun little abilities for ones that performed better.

That said, if they made an interesting stamina morph, that might be fun too. I deleted my stamina sorcerer a while back because they were too boring to play. More stamina morphs would definitely help with that.

You are digging a hole with a spoon "crystal blast" when a shovel is right next to your hand "frags"

Blast is literally a meme skill. No other skill in the sorc toolkit lends itself to becoming a stamina morph more than blast. 1) no one uses it 2) stam sorc lacks class defining burst skill which all stamina classes have

Examples: warden shalks, have stam/mag morphs. Necro blast bones, Nightblade bow proc, templar potl/purifying along with jabs, dragon knight claw/breath.

Stam sorc is the ONLY class where the defining burst skill is limited to one spec. And while a 1 for 1 copy of frags is not what stam sorcs want. Converting a frankly utterly useless skill to a stam crystal sword is the easiest and most straightforward approach

robpr

It was only used by specific and high risk sorc "bombers" with casting it from stealth into Meteor and Streak right before Proxi explodes. Those builds had like 3 weeks of triumph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0IpQnxMHY

Bryath

Starlock wrote: »

I understand many who regular these forums have a hard time grasping this, but various players don't have an issue with cast times. Especially when the ability hits like a truck, stuns (and stuns are always fun - even more so now when Zenimax has consistently been removing them from the game), and has a respectable AoE damage on top of that. I'd never consider running the so-called "popular" morph if I had a sorcerer who specialized in that tree. It's boring by comparison and I don't understand why the fun morph gets trashed so much. There are certainly skill morphs in this game that have been lackluster and/or boring, but that isn't one of them. Boring is the middle name of skills like Molten Weapons and both of its morphs... such an un-fun skill.

You don't have to agree. I'm only posting in here to be the reminder of player diversity and that no, the skill isn't "bad" to everyone.

MEBengalsFan2001

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

They would know that despite the noise on the forums, every skill has its use and place

I think that in this instance, the good of the many (all stamSorcs) outweighs what is good for the few (you and a small handful of PvE questers).

Given the paucity of actual Sorc skills that stamSorcs have access to, I think that any fair-minded person would say that it's alright for magSorcs to sacrifice an obscure morph or two for the sake of increasing class equity. (We'll take Crystal Blast and the other Atronach morph and maybe call it even.)

As it is now, stamSorcs are like Cinderella and magSorcs are the wicked step-sisters constantly scheming up justifications for why we have to continue wearing potato sacks while you wear silks.

I play a magsorc and I agree that Stam sorc could use some more love from the class skill lines. I would say that all of the original four classes could use some type of rework between magika and stamina to ensure equality between the two type of builds.

I find that Necro and Wardens seem the most balance when it comes to skill line between DD builds as well as tanks and healers. The rest of the classes need some rework, not much but a few tweaks here and there and things IMO would be much better.

Austinseph1

To be fair, anything in PvP is good against an inexperienced player, also throwing random stuff from the outside of a fight is bound to get an assist somewhere... But better skills would get you actual kills.

Scav1985

460cp and I still use CBlast.
I have stable 38k dps on trial dummy (without Ulti and without Zaan).
Is it really bad? How much dps should I have with this cp and how much i could get with CFrags?
I know I will have higher dps with CFragments but after all CBlast is multi target skill.

EDIT:
Stable 48k dps with Ulti and Zaan over 30 seconds.
Someday I will make comparison to CFrags and we will see the real difference.

iCaliban

Scav1985 wrote: »

460cp and I still use CBlast.
I have stable 38k dps on trial dummy (without Ulti and without Zaan).
Is it really bad? How much dps should I have with this cp and how much i could get with CFrags?
I know I will have higher dps with CFragments but after all CBlast is multi target skill.

Yes, that is really bad. Standards are at the minimum 60k+ for vet trials. With 460 cp you should be able to hit 60k on the trial dummy.

Blast is a terrible skill, change the morph. Parsing without ult? Why? Use your ultimate.

MindOfTheSwarm

Atherakhia wrote: »

They really should redesign this skill to be a stamina morph and provide something valuable to stamina sorcerers.

What about buffing the damage so that it is comparable to a frags and light attack?

olsborg

Its only «not bad» if youve never used frags and never played magsorc.