Tried Battlegrounds...Not Fun

Mizeov

I have refused to play battlegrounds since solo queue mostly out of spite for ZOS taking away my ability to PVP with friends but since all of my friends were off I thought I would at least try to be open minded about it. It wasn't fun...at all. I had 0 kills and 14 deaths and before anyone says to just git gud or whatever other banal argument you have, matchmaker put me against the other two teams that both had 3 templars in it. Do you know how annoying it is to try and kill ANYTHING when you have 3+ templars only pressing one button (and we all know what ability that is).

This isn't a rant on templars but at least before my friend and I could communicate and die together trying to form some sort of coordinated defense. Now? why ****ing bother ZOS?

Freakin_Hytte

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

Kidgangster101

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

I can see where he's coming from, what happens if 4 healers get paired? What happens if it's 3 tanks and a healer? What if it's 4 nbs that only want to stealth and gank? What if one team gets 3 great dps with a healer and they stay together and mop the floor with out dying once?

To many what ifs and rng based there to be competitive at all in my opinion.

Drako_Ei

I tried it for the first time in months, and it's the best thing it could have happened to it

james_738pub18_ESO

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

I've played 100+ BG's since the patch, I can confirm they're terrible. Haven't even logged in in over two weeks now I got so turned off from the game.

Mizeov

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

I can see where he's coming from, what happens if 4 healers get paired? What happens if it's 3 tanks and a healer? What if it's 4 nbs that only want to stealth and gank? What if one team gets 3 great dps with a healer and they stay together and mop the floor with out dying once?

To many what ifs and rng based there to be competitive at all in my opinion.

This is exactly where I am coming from. 100% variable 0% fun

Shaloknir

It sounds like your premaid has carried you in the past against PUGs. Now it is in my opinion more your personal pvp skill that defines the outcome.

I have been playing a lot of bgs lately and I have noticed that you cant rely on your team 100 %. At least you have to see if your teammates are engaging in the same battles. It requires a lot more battlefield awereness.

Now dont let one match bring down your spirits. I used to die a lot. And i still do when i meet better players. But i must say the solo queue has been surprisingly fun and balanced!

I find more success with templar and dk. But I play mainly stamsorc. Feels a bit underwhelming in comparison to dk and templar. But I guess its just my rusty pvp-skills :-) I play casually.

Kidgangster101

Shaloknir wrote: »

It sounds like your premaid has carried you in the past against PUGs. Now it is in my opinion more your personal pvp skill that defines the outcome.

I have been playing a lot of bgs lately and I have noticed that you cant rely on your team 100 %. At least you have to see if your teammates are engaging in the same battles. It requires a lot more battlefield awereness.

Now dont let one match bring down your spirits. I used to die a lot. And i still do when i meet better players. But i must say the solo queue has been surprisingly fun and balanced!

I find more success with templar and dk. But I play mainly stamsorc. Feels a bit underwhelming in comparison to dk and templar. But I guess its just my rusty pvp-skills :-) I play casually.

So I'm going to focus on this one part right here.......

"I have been playing a lot of bgs lately and I have noticed that you cant rely on your team 100 %. At least you have to see if your teammates are engaging in the same battles. It requires a lot more battlefield awereness"

THIS MODE IS DESIGNED AROUND TEAMWORK! If you are playing capture the relic or chaos ball it takes strategy and TEAMWORK to get this done. So tell me I want to win but I get qued into a match of someone that just is worried about their kill count....... So now MY winning the match doesn't matter because I can't play with at least 1 friend wanting to do the same thing. So now if I have 3 players just worried about fighting I should just waste my time watching the other teams win?

This is 100% a dice roll to see if you get decent players or trash players and that doesn't make the game fun and it doesn't raise my awareness to the game if my team runs away in 3 different directions to get picked apart by the group that stays together lol.

The "solo" players that can 1vX are the new pugstompers bullying the people that are trash plain and simple.

Jyiiga

It is terrible the way it is now. It is always a blow out one way or the other. I either totally dominate the other team or I get blasted so hard I want to log out. There is rarely any middle ground and I have played tons of matches under the new system.

Under the old system I ran as a duo and we were often matched against other duos or full teams. We won some and lost some, but it wasn't nearly as one sided as it feels like now.

MurderMostFoul

Mizeov wrote: »

I had 0 kills and 14 deaths

If it was deathmatch, this is a God-awful performance, even against a good team. Sounds like you got frustrated and that prevented you from playing smart.

Jyiiga wrote: »

It is always a blow out one way or the other.

This isn't true. There are plenty of close games. Before solo only, there were plenty of blowouts too. At least now, you can't group up and blowout pugs over and over.

Kidgangster101

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mizeov wrote: »

I had 0 kills and 14 deaths

If it was deathmatch, this is a God-awful performance, even against a good team. Sounds like you got frustrated and that prevented you from playing smart.

Jyiiga wrote: »

It is always a blow out one way or the other.

This isn't true. There are plenty of close games. Before solo only, there were plenty of blowouts too. At least now, you can't group up and blowout pugs over and over.

But at the same time I can que up getting paired with 3 potatoes and it hurts MY game experience for the night because I get bad partners...... Yep sounds like fun to me and not wanting to make me log out and play a multiplayer game with my wife as a duo. Let's see we got for Honor, fortnite, Diablo 3, we got wow we can go back to and PVP, call of duty, boarderlans, league of legends (even let's you duo que in competitive game modes)....... Should I continue or do you not see how bad this change is yet?

MurderMostFoul

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Mizeov wrote: »

I had 0 kills and 14 deaths

If it was deathmatch, this is a God-awful performance, even against a good team. Sounds like you got frustrated and that prevented you from playing smart.

Jyiiga wrote: »

It is always a blow out one way or the other.

This isn't true. There are plenty of close games. Before solo only, there were plenty of blowouts too. At least now, you can't group up and blowout pugs over and over.

But at the same time I can que up getting paired with 3 potatoes and it hurts MY game experience for the night because I get bad partners...... Yep sounds like fun to me and not wanting to make me log out and play a multiplayer game with my wife as a duo. Let's see we got for Honor, fortnite, Diablo 3, we got wow we can go back to and PVP, call of duty, boarderlans, league of legends (even let's you duo que in competitive game modes)....... Should I continue or do you not see how bad this change is yet?

I never said this change was ideal. I personally think allowing solos and duos would be the best solution all things considered. But this change has improved the overall quality of matches and hence i veiw it an incremental improvement.

Iskiab

I’ve always solo queued. Biggest difference I see is the MMR reset.

Mixing in experienced players with new players can imbalance games. There’s also a lot of people who didn’t do PvE first who try to pvp, their damage isn’t there. You need to learn the game before and LA weaving and animation cancelling to do well.

ImSoPro

Mizeov wrote: »

I have refused to play battlegrounds since solo queue mostly out of spite for ZOS taking away my ability to PVP with friends but since all of my friends were off I thought I would at least try to be open minded about it. It wasn't fun...at all. I had 0 kills and 14 deaths and before anyone says to just git gud or whatever other banal argument you have, matchmaker put me against the other two teams that both had 3 templars in it. Do you know how annoying it is to try and kill ANYTHING when you have 3+ templars only pressing one button (and we all know what ability that is).

This isn't a rant on templars but at least before my friend and I could communicate and die together trying to form some sort of coordinated defense. Now? why ****ing bother ZOS?

0-14 tho? Lmaooo That’s hilarious If that’s a death match. Idk I’m not saying you suck but damn I’d have to agree that you were probably getting carried by premades. You might just have to adjust to playing with randoms and it will take more than one game to do so. I ran with friends and played solo an equal amount so I am already used to playing in PUGS, it’s really just making sure you have everything in your kit to support yourself.

If your team is getting obliterated, 9 times out of 10 It’s probably because y’all are separating in battle and getting picked off. If you type stay together in group chat people will listen because no one wants to get keep running straight to death. If you’re a good player sometimes you have to QB and rally the team. If you care about team play try and be a team player instead of raging cause you’re on your way to 0-14 and have no friends to talk to. Yeah you’ll still lose sometimes but the games will be closer and now everyone has 6 7 8 kills instead of 1 2 3 kills and 9-10 deaths.

Personally I think BGs are way more balanced by a mile. Haven’t ran into really any teams that dominate from top to bottom. Nowadays usually it’s one or two players carrying and because of that it’s easy to come back even when you’re losing 300-75. I think you should still have the ability to play with friends though honestly, so however they go about implementing that whether it be a separate queue or bringing it back altogether I’d be for it.

Commandment

BG's are 100% the same, but now you know you will never get to play with your friends.

Taunky

They should have just made it so if you queue solo, you get matched with other solo players. If you queue in a group, same thing. But nope, they had to *** that up too. Not to mention battlegrounds are boring as hell. No variety, just the same 4v4v4 crap on a different map.

xWarbrain

Commandment wrote: »

BG's are 100% the same, but now you know you will never get to play with your friends.

False. Queue at the same time.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

I can see where he's coming from, what happens if 4 healers get paired? What happens if it's 3 tanks and a healer? What if it's 4 nbs that only want to stealth and gank? What if one team gets 3 great dps with a healer and they stay together and mop the floor with out dying once?

To many what ifs and rng based there to be competitive at all in my opinion.

It evens out over time. You might get paired with 3 healers this game, eventually you'd play against a team like that. Your questions focus on one match. Over the course of a weekly leaderboard it balances. You're not going to see 4 NBs together 4 times in a row.

Most games are not the extreme group comp of 4 healers or 4 Gankblades.

xWarbrain

Taunky wrote: »

They should have just made it so if you queue solo, you get matched with other solo players. If you queue in a group, same thing. But nope, they had to *** that up too. Not to mention battlegrounds are boring as hell. No variety, just the same 4v4v4 crap on a different map.

What about a duo? Better, a group of 3 friends? Are they just out numberred or do you add one player from solo queue that didnt want to play with premades? How is that balanced? Not all friends come in groups of 4.

Kidgangster101

xWarbrain wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

BG's are 100% the same, but now you know you will never get to play with your friends.

False. Queue at the same time.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Okey so if I understand you right you played one game where you were unlucky in the matchmaking and from that first experience you have now decided that all bgs are awful?

I can see where he's coming from, what happens if 4 healers get paired? What happens if it's 3 tanks and a healer? What if it's 4 nbs that only want to stealth and gank? What if one team gets 3 great dps with a healer and they stay together and mop the floor with out dying once?

To many what ifs and rng based there to be competitive at all in my opinion.

It evens out over time. You might get paired with 3 healers this game, eventually you'd play against a team like that. Your questions focus on one match. Over the course of a weekly leaderboard it balances. You're not going to see 4 NBs together 4 times in a row.

Most games are not the extreme group comp of 4 healers or 4 Gankblades.

To your first part "playing with friends" doesn't mean people want to play AGAINST they want to play WITH meaning same group.

And what do the leaderboards matter if everything is rng? What if I have a bad night and I play 16 matches and 14 out of 16 I get stomped because I have 3 potatoes with me that don't want to work as a team? Now I wasted my night..... I would rather go play any other game WITH MY WIFE than solo que into BG. It's not because I'm bad, it's because there are way to many bad players in this game that don't want to get better and just call for nerfs.

SebDeTyra

Out of spite? haha do you really think they give a damn you're not doing BG's? You're only spiting yourself.

GRXRG

The problem with BGs is random matchmaking.
Last day I was in a BG deathmatch and I had 35 kills zero deaths, I don't know why I wasn't dying, I was keeping all my buffs up and heals up as usual and I was immortal, kiting people 1vs2 or 1vs3 and even killing them and many whispered me calling me cheater ( I admit it felt good).
Next match I did 0 kills 27 deaths xD yeah pretty terrible I know.

So I realized the first match was just PvE players with zero impenetrable and zero penetration or good builds. Second match was players with high mmr with well theorycrafted and meta builds and I got owned terribly because I am not a good player and plus server lag doesn't help.

Unfortunately BGs are this way, a lackluster fiesta and for me it's still one of my favourite gamemodes, at least better than Ping-o-diil.

UrbanMonk

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

Lowbei

as a templar, the bgs seem fine to me. maybe try a better class or gear setup?

GRXRG

UrbanMonk wrote: »

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

True, but if you are a bad player, maybe not in pve gear, but with a good pvp build and you are in a team with really good players for many matches you will get carried in an higher MMR that you don't deserve to be in, because the game registered you win 10 games in a row in streak and so for the game you are a good player.
I might say a bad and inaccurate thing, but if you lose matches in BGs your MMR will go down or remain exactly the same?
Because if it doesn't go down that explains all, you might have been carried to a higher MMR that you don't belong into.
I remember in Guild Wars 2 PvP there was a sort of MMR leaderboard that start from Bronze-Silver-Gold-Platinum-Diamond, if you win a lot you arrive to be let's say Platinum. But once in that "zone" if you lose like 20 games you return to be a Silver player and matched with other Silver players.
Dunno if ESO works the same.

Urzigurumash

Let's see your build OP? 0-14 isn't terrible if you got 30+ assists.

Urzigurumash

Mizeov wrote: »

Now? why ****ing bother ZOS?

To excel, to test and improve your skills, to gain a sense of satisfaction playing with a trash meme build (my favorite kind) and winning against a team of 3 Templars, etc

VoidCommander

Sounds like a lot of people are realizing for the first time what a nightmare it is to pug battlegrounds. Imagine never winning a battleground literally ever because you don’t have a pre-made group and are forced to pug. At least now I can que knowing I have as good a chance at winning as the next person.

That being said, they should still have a separate queue for pre-made groups. It will take longer, you’ll need 4 people to even queue for it, but it would at least be there.

VoidCommander

GRXRG wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

True, but if you are a bad player, maybe not in pve gear, but with a good pvp build and you are in a team with really good players for many matches you will get carried in an higher MMR that you don't deserve to be in, because the game registered you win 10 games in a row in streak and so for the game you are a good player.
I might say a bad and inaccurate thing, but if you lose matches in BGs your MMR will go down or remain exactly the same?
Because if it doesn't go down that explains all, you might have been carried to a higher MMR that you don't belong into.
I remember in Guild Wars 2 PvP there was a sort of MMR leaderboard that start from Bronze-Silver-Gold-Platinum-Diamond, if you win a lot you arrive to be let's say Platinum. But once in that "zone" if you lose like 20 games you return to be a Silver player and matched with other Silver players.
Dunno if ESO works the same.

They reset the MMR for this patch for that reason.

GRXRG

VoidCommander wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

True, but if you are a bad player, maybe not in pve gear, but with a good pvp build and you are in a team with really good players for many matches you will get carried in an higher MMR that you don't deserve to be in, because the game registered you win 10 games in a row in streak and so for the game you are a good player.
I might say a bad and inaccurate thing, but if you lose matches in BGs your MMR will go down or remain exactly the same?
Because if it doesn't go down that explains all, you might have been carried to a higher MMR that you don't belong into.
I remember in Guild Wars 2 PvP there was a sort of MMR leaderboard that start from Bronze-Silver-Gold-Platinum-Diamond, if you win a lot you arrive to be let's say Platinum. But once in that "zone" if you lose like 20 games you return to be a Silver player and matched with other Silver players.
Dunno if ESO works the same.

They reset the MMR for this patch for that reason.

But if I lose a match, I lose MMR or stay the same? That's the big issue.
I don't know how to express myself well sorry, english is not my main language.

Imagine you play 10 games starting from the lowest resetter MMR.

You win all of them because matched with great players, but you are below average.
As soon you will have worse teammate and face other great players you will start losing a lot, but you are still placed on that high MMR because of the 10 carried wins, or your MMR will go down same as guild wars 2?

Qbiken

GRXRG wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

True, but if you are a bad player, maybe not in pve gear, but with a good pvp build and you are in a team with really good players for many matches you will get carried in an higher MMR that you don't deserve to be in, because the game registered you win 10 games in a row in streak and so for the game you are a good player.
I might say a bad and inaccurate thing, but if you lose matches in BGs your MMR will go down or remain exactly the same?
Because if it doesn't go down that explains all, you might have been carried to a higher MMR that you don't belong into.
I remember in Guild Wars 2 PvP there was a sort of MMR leaderboard that start from Bronze-Silver-Gold-Platinum-Diamond, if you win a lot you arrive to be let's say Platinum. But once in that "zone" if you lose like 20 games you return to be a Silver player and matched with other Silver players.
Dunno if ESO works the same.

They reset the MMR for this patch for that reason.

But if I lose a match, I lose MMR or stay the same? That's the big issue.
I don't know how to express myself well sorry, english is not my main language.

Imagine you play 10 games starting from the lowest resetter MMR.

You win all of them because matched with great players, but you are below average.
As soon you will have worse teammate and face other great players you will start losing a lot, but you are still placed on that high MMR because of the 10 carried wins, or your MMR will go down same as guild wars 2?

From what I've heard (combined with my own experience):
In eso you don't lose mmr when you lose games. MMR is accumulative and is determined by the amount of games you play, regardless of performance (I do think your mmr is boosted more with higher scores but you get my point). This is by far the biggest problems eso battlegrounds has. It's actually a much bigger problem than "premades vs non-premades". Not having brackets in a battleground makes the entire system pointless, and makes the leaderboards for BG's even more pointless.

GRXRG

Qbiken wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

@GRXRG - Seems you are right about this ping pong, and somehow resetting the MMR did initially helped but in longer run, the people who play more BGs than others will again be on higher MMR and eventually be paired against lower ones.

There is no definite way of saying how ZOS has it figured out when making groups, but ATM it's not very reliable.

True, but if you are a bad player, maybe not in pve gear, but with a good pvp build and you are in a team with really good players for many matches you will get carried in an higher MMR that you don't deserve to be in, because the game registered you win 10 games in a row in streak and so for the game you are a good player.
I might say a bad and inaccurate thing, but if you lose matches in BGs your MMR will go down or remain exactly the same?
Because if it doesn't go down that explains all, you might have been carried to a higher MMR that you don't belong into.
I remember in Guild Wars 2 PvP there was a sort of MMR leaderboard that start from Bronze-Silver-Gold-Platinum-Diamond, if you win a lot you arrive to be let's say Platinum. But once in that "zone" if you lose like 20 games you return to be a Silver player and matched with other Silver players.
Dunno if ESO works the same.

They reset the MMR for this patch for that reason.

But if I lose a match, I lose MMR or stay the same? That's the big issue.
I don't know how to express myself well sorry, english is not my main language.

Imagine you play 10 games starting from the lowest resetter MMR.

You win all of them because matched with great players, but you are below average.
As soon you will have worse teammate and face other great players you will start losing a lot, but you are still placed on that high MMR because of the 10 carried wins, or your MMR will go down same as guild wars 2?

From what I've heard (combined with my own experience):
In eso you don't lose mmr when you lose games. MMR is accumulative and is determined by the amount of games you play, regardless of performance (I do think your mmr is boosted more with higher scores but you get my point). This is by far the biggest problems eso battlegrounds has. It's actually a much bigger problem than "premades vs non-premades". Not having brackets in a battleground makes the entire system pointless, and makes the leaderboards for BG's even more pointless.

There is a bit of logic behind that, the more you play, the more you are experienced, the more you are good, or at least you should. But playing a lot it is not always an indicator of being good, I am a few days fresh cp810 guy, but I find like cp1200 guys in BGs which just hold autoattacks and cannot press 3 skills in sequence, or cp400 guys who seem to have mastered cancelling already and destroying me in seconds. The MMR is so random and lag doesn't help either.