Has the Attitude of PvPers Changed?

Iskiab

So I’ve been playing alts and switched mains. I have two toons that barely broke assault/support 10 so low/mid MMR and I can’t seem to go a game without seeing trolls.

Here’s an example: I queued up for a random and got a capture the relic game. I defend because everyone else ran off, then I see my team is just dueling in the middle so I leave.

Incoming flood of hate tells saying how bad I am, and I’m a noob because they’ve never seen me before and they’re high MMR... coming from a CP500 who basicly just started playing the game. See the same person on my team next time in a chaos ball, they then never pick up the ball once and just picked off random people leaving me to defend having the ball solo... again, picking off randoms to inflate their stats.

I play another random, capture the relic and this time it’s from a different team. I get lots of hate tells, ‘oh it took 4 of you guys to take me down, blah blah blah’ all while ignoring objectives.

Are newer pvper’s more trolly or just that bad? I seem to never get death matches anymore because of random, and just flag games against people ignoring objectives, perhaps intentionally tanking their MMR to get new players so they they can try and get padded KvR ratios. Is there a Troll tier of have things just gotten worse? My ignore list is exploding.

Edit - this is PC-NA

idk

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

ChunkyCat

We men are wretched things.

Iskiab

idk wrote: »

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

Yea, but they used to be stuck in low MMR. Most higher MMR players are actually really chill and nice people... mostly.

Maybe those new trolls kept playing, and ignoring objectives gives them bad scores so they’re congregated in low/mid tier? Idk. It seems worse than I remember it.

NordSwordnBoard

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

Yea, but they used to be stuck in low MMR. Most higher MMR players are actually really chill and nice people... mostly.

Maybe those new trolls kept playing, and ignoring objectives gives them bad scores so they’re congregated in low/mid tier? Idk. It seems worse than I remember it.

Considering there's a subsection of experienced players dedicated to playing in under 50 camps and BGs, constantly re-rolling characters just so they can avoid a real challenge, I'm not that surprised.
We even had such a person here advertising a gank build, showing high kill stats with an awful objective score:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485480/since-bow-gank-build-dead-i-find-a-new-melee-gank-build-830k-damage-in-bg/p1

Iskiab

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

Yea, but they used to be stuck in low MMR. Most higher MMR players are actually really chill and nice people... mostly.

Maybe those new trolls kept playing, and ignoring objectives gives them bad scores so they’re congregated in low/mid tier? Idk. It seems worse than I remember it.

Considering there's a subsection of experienced players dedicated to playing in under 50 camps and BGs, constantly re-rolling characters just so they can avoid a real challenge, I'm not that surprised.
We even had such a person here advertising a gank build, showing high kill stats with an awful objective score:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485480/since-bow-gank-build-dead-i-find-a-new-melee-gank-build-830k-damage-in-bg/p1

Yea, that sucks. Does the random give just an xp bonus or an AP bonus as well? I’m used to almost always getting a DM but queueing for a random. Maybe I can avoid them by queuing just for a DM since their whole gameplay seems to revolve around just getting as many kills as possible in non-DM games so people are focused more on objectives.

MrGhosty

Iskiab wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

Yea, but they used to be stuck in low MMR. Most higher MMR players are actually really chill and nice people... mostly.

Maybe those new trolls kept playing, and ignoring objectives gives them bad scores so they’re congregated in low/mid tier? Idk. It seems worse than I remember it.

Considering there's a subsection of experienced players dedicated to playing in under 50 camps and BGs, constantly re-rolling characters just so they can avoid a real challenge, I'm not that surprised.
We even had such a person here advertising a gank build, showing high kill stats with an awful objective score:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485480/since-bow-gank-build-dead-i-find-a-new-melee-gank-build-830k-damage-in-bg/p1

Yea, that sucks. Does the random give just an xp bonus or an AP bonus as well? I’m used to almost always getting a DM but queueing for a random. Maybe I can avoid them by queuing just for a DM since their whole gameplay seems to revolve around just getting as many kills as possible in non-DM games so people are focused more on objectives.

Folks not playing an objective in a multiplayer match is a tale as old as time. I don't play a ton of bgs, but the ones I do rarely have any chat in them at all, though there is a smattering of folks refusing to play the objective. Thankfully that affects all teams equally and I've managed to get my win because the other two teams were too busy dueling in the middle.

Iskiab

MrGhosty wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PvP has always been full of trolls and more.

In every game I have played there have been those who blame the match not going well on others even though they are part of the match and clearly spending more time typing than anything else. It is also not to uncommon that players get bent they lost of where killed by you so they engage in PvP via whispers because they are to inept to actually fight you. Best to ignore those halfwits and go on as they are just trying to bring you down to their level.

Yea, but they used to be stuck in low MMR. Most higher MMR players are actually really chill and nice people... mostly.

Maybe those new trolls kept playing, and ignoring objectives gives them bad scores so they’re congregated in low/mid tier? Idk. It seems worse than I remember it.

Considering there's a subsection of experienced players dedicated to playing in under 50 camps and BGs, constantly re-rolling characters just so they can avoid a real challenge, I'm not that surprised.
We even had such a person here advertising a gank build, showing high kill stats with an awful objective score:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485480/since-bow-gank-build-dead-i-find-a-new-melee-gank-build-830k-damage-in-bg/p1

Yea, that sucks. Does the random give just an xp bonus or an AP bonus as well? I’m used to almost always getting a DM but queueing for a random. Maybe I can avoid them by queuing just for a DM since their whole gameplay seems to revolve around just getting as many kills as possible in non-DM games so people are focused more on objectives.

Folks not playing an objective in a multiplayer match is a tale as old as time. I don't play a ton of bgs, but the ones I do rarely have any chat in them at all, though there is a smattering of folks refusing to play the objective. Thankfully that affects all teams equally and I've managed to get my win because the other two teams were too busy dueling in the middle.

Yea, that’s normal. What’s been abnormal to me is those who don’t play the objectives thumping their chest and trolling in group or through tells.

BNOC

I'm not going to lie, I'm a fairly strong player by our standards (Xbox EU) and I will *** talk one person in particular but honestly in my opinion, it's for good reason - He does 1-30k damage a BG, stays in stealth the entire time, and ONLY caps objs. If PVP is near he runs and if it's where he wants to go, he waits in stealth, all he does it chat *** in caps as well.

I queue for BG's to get a fix of small scale noCP PvP, the kind of fix I can't get from PvE geared Cyrodil zergs, 1v1 duelling or really anywhere on our server due to the fear of noCP and population.

I will not avoid PVP and pick up objs unless there's someone I don't like that is so desperate to win that they'd avoid PVP (2 players) - If they're not in the game, I will prioritise PVP over capturing an obj, whether that's defending my base, defending an enemy obj pickup or whatever.

When you step away from organised fights (which are entirely different) There's a huge problem with the way matchmaking, leaderboards and the game modes work and I've said a hundred times:

• MMR doesn't exist, there is no way.
• Leaderboards mean nothing.
• Winning the game means nothing.
• Ignoring PVP is rewarded rather than punished.

MMR and matchmaking has been discussed 1000 times, if the games were matched better, many issues would go away. MMR does not exist - The fact I face premades of guys I duel all day, with 90CP's on my team would be a good indicator of that.

Leaderboards are a serious issue because players with time are rewarded over players with skill but the "time" based players at the top often take pride in the fact they're top and naturally, continue to do what they were doing.

Leaderboards NEED to mean something for people to take playing obj seriously, at the minute, it doesn't count for anything whether you place 1st or 5,000,000th. For someone who wants small scale PVP, that's a non issue and only seasonal PvP rewards/recognition (like most other games) would change my opinion on that.

With the leaderboard and matchmaking issue above, winning the game becomes moot and unnecessary - That makes the focus for many of us in BGs, entirely about PVP and when it comes to game mode, Deathmatch is a 2 minute game with kill caps, the others are uncapped and you can drag the timer out if you play it smart, and when you sit in 20-40m queues regularly, it's a no-brainer to drag it out.

In these games, and I put this down to a mixture of everything (matchmaking, leaderboard appeal, 3 team based etc) you are rewarded for ignoring combat; Think about that: in PVP, you're rewarded for ignoring PVP. And you are, that's a simple fact of it - People call it strategy or whatever, but all it is, is pointlessly scoring to end a game as fast as possible; a game you just spend ages queuing for and for no reason at all other than wanting to win (which is the pointless part)

I will whisper in chat if my group is doing PvE and tell them to go and cap resources in Cyrodil or IC uncontested if that's what they're after but I'm definitely not a troll, honestly, the opposite.

If even leaderboards rewarded skill and had worthy rewards, you'd see a massive influx into BG's, you'd see fairer, more obj based games and you'd have less *** talking going on because you'd mostly have a lobby of people with the same vision.

Following the above, now you've got a leaderboard based on an average skill rating, imagine a mount for top 100 every X months (just reskinned in no time at all), accompanied by a seasonal title to show your prowess, or whatever.

I don't think it's trolls, I think it's players making the best of a bad situation. I'd argue the trolls are the guys who queue 25m and try end the game in 2m without doing any PVP at all.

Iskiab

Well those flag games are designed to promote being good at pvp. I’ll see a lot of premades who’ll stay tight all game and you can beat them by going to objectives solo... if you can beat other players at the flags. I’ll sometimes see pve players who’ll constantly run away, they tend to lose because when one person comes to challenge the flag they win. I’ve won some flag games with new players that way, tie up the premade solo while those who’re learning run off and cap everything.

I also think there is a MMR, but it tries to balance teams based on MMR ranks. So if you’re high you’ll sometimes get new players on your team, and you’re expected to carry them and still be able to win. It’s only at prime time or when lots are playing that you’ll get all high MMR players.

I agree about a leaderboard. There needs to be more incentive to do BGs. If you’ve pvped a lot you’re probably sitting on millions of AP saved waiting for something decent to come on the golden vendor. I keep doing them because they’re fun, and mainly to rank up to assault/support 10 before heading into Cyro on new toons or during downtime. With that being said, now would be a great time to invest into BGs too because so many are quitting Cyro for BGs because Cyro performance is so bad.

BNOC

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve won some flag games with new players that way, tie up the premade solo while those who’re learning run off and cap everything.

Actually, this happens a lot for me as well, it's just a shame they don't learn much from the obj based games where it's played out like that, much less when they're getting stomped by people they shouldn't be with.

Iskiab wrote: »

With that being said, now would be a great time to invest into BGs too because so many are quitting Cyro for BGs because Cyro performance is so bad.

Anytime would be a great time to invest into BG's and I wish they would!

Here's to hoping!