there's a real problem with pvp.

wolfbone

I'm more than likely going to get hate, or be told to 'get gud'. but there's a real problem in eso when it comes to pvp. when it takes a whole group to kill one player on account of their health regen and so on with the boost you get from being inside cyrodill, it makes pvp rather boring, where you get groups of tanky players who are pretty much immortal. I dont think volendrung helped, and has only made everything worse.

martinhpb16_ESO

Yup pvp is the worst it has ever been imho

WoppaBoem

The unkillable players is a really issue. There is a real imbalance. I think the major protection buff needs to be lowered.

Juhasow

Depends which "unkillable players" we're talking about. If we're talking about regular tanks that deal no damage to enemies or healing to allies but they're just simply very tanky then it's totally ok as they've invested everything to be unkillable but other then that they dont bring much into the battle. If we're talking about people that cannot be killed by group of people but that group of people is bunch of unorganised casuals not knowing what they're doing then it's still fine that 1 person can survive by playing way better then those casuals. If we're talking about tanky setups that can deal lot of damage or heal allies a lot and they're hard to be taken down even by multiple decent players then yeah there is an issue. So now which immortal players we're talking about ?

NyassaV

WoppaBoem wrote: »

The unkillable players is a really issue. There is a real imbalance. I think the major protection buff needs to be lowered.

That's... Not the issue... There are other problems that cause players to be unkillable. Fact of the matter is that now-a-days more so than before people hate dying so they would to have more survival than damage which just results in everyone being tanky and steam rolling people who aren't.

ChunkyCat

Switch to No-CP PvP. That will help.

Kadoin

ZOS nerfs caused it and you are calling for more?

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

The Assault skill line should have access to Major Defile somehow. I think it would help a lot. Maybe a morph of Magicka Detonation or Caltrops.

zyk

The tank meta has been out of control for years. Including troll tank builds. Just because they can be built doesn't mean they should exist. Everyone, including the players who play them, call them troll tanks for a reason. Troll builds aren't a good thing in any game.

BRogueNZ

30k+ HP, 30k+ resistances 6K WD , evade-mitigate, passive and active healing, spam for harmony, pop ult

win

Kel

NyassaV wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

The unkillable players is a really issue. There is a real imbalance. I think the major protection buff needs to be lowered.

That's... Not the issue... There are other problems that cause players to be unkillable. Fact of the matter is that now-a-days more so than before people hate dying so they would to have more survival than damage which just results in everyone being tanky and steam rolling people who aren't.

This, to some degree.

Players do in fact hate dying. The number of players I see that do nothing but run away from fights, even 1v1's, is frankly embarrassing. Check out King of Gamez youtube for his "Runner of the year" videos to see what I mean...

You see it time and time again...a group will wipe, and instead of taking a quick death to respawn with the rest of your group, you'll see a player run across the map, far past any tent drop area, getting chased by 20 people around terrain, all to die anyway.

I can sort of see that tactic in IC, where you actually have something to lose in Telvar. But in Cyrodiil, it's beyond weird seeing a player running away from a 1v1 when the only downside is a respawn that doesn't cost you anything.

This problem also has to do with the way Zos has severely hit damage this patch, increased costs of abilities by a large margin, at the same time they basically taken defile out of the game, made bleed damage affected by resists, and nerfed Oblivion damage. All while not touching healing and making it hard as hell to damage a tanky set up and hurting resources to do so.

If they wanted unkillable groups in Cyrodiil, or just players who build tanky and maybe run with a pocket healer, they've gone in the right direction. The rest of us do what we can while trying to fight down the mounting frustration....🤷‍♂️

LegacyDM

Last night I stumbled across our esteemed favorite jarl in a tower. I hit the guy with lotus fan from stealth, proc Caluurion's Legacy, LA weave with swallow soul proc zaan, fear, snd end with soul harvest. Nope guy doesn’t die all the while soaking up the damage and perma sprinting around the tower with seemingly unlimited resources. Mind you he is also getting hit by other players while I’m executing this combo. Not just me. In return he hits like a truck dropping over 20k damage in ult dump in approx 1-2 secs with blast bones and grave robber.

Yeah this game is stupid when tank and healer roles become unkillable with unlimited resources and hit as hard as pure dps roles. I feared him over and over like clock work and he never ran out of resources. So what’s the equation if you can’t out dps them nor run them out of resources? I gave up after 10 minutes and left remembering why pvp in this game is garbage.

Mr_Walker

BRogueNZ wrote: »

30k+ HP, 30k+ resistances 6K WD , evade-mitigate, passive and active healing, spam for harmony, pop ult

win

See, nothing broken about that.

ZarkingFrued

PVP is at the ABSOLUTE best I have seen on many many patches. There is much I disagree with, but it has become more and more skill based over the last few patches. I was very skeptical, but it now depends more on what a player does than something as simple as stacking dots on someone and game over, or proc sets, or constant snare and immobilizing. You're going to lose some fights where you outnumber very good veteran players now. Maybe just stop trying to mow down small groups and solo players? Seems like you were the one who was being dirty to me.

ZarkingFrued

BRogueNZ wrote: »

30k+ HP, 30k+ resistances 6K WD , evade-mitigate, passive and active healing, spam for harmony, pop ult

win

So let's see it?

ZarkingFrued

I would like to also note that you are asking for ZoS to make it easier to kill players. You're a player.. if they make it easier to kill players then you're easier to kill, and you're currently already upset that you're easy for good players to kill..

ZarkingFrued

Juhasow wrote: »

Depends which "unkillable players" we're talking about. If we're talking about regular tanks that deal no damage to enemies or healing to allies but they're just simply very tanky then it's totally ok as they've invested everything to be unkillable but other then that they dont bring much into the battle. If we're talking about people that cannot be killed by group of people but that group of people is bunch of unorganised casuals not knowing what they're doing then it's still fine that 1 person can survive by playing way better then those casuals. If we're talking about tanky setups that can deal lot of damage or heal allies a lot and they're hard to be taken down even by multiple decent players then yeah there is an issue. So now which immortal players we're talking about ?

This is a comment by someone who understands this game. ^^^^^^

BRogueNZ

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

BRogueNZ wrote: »

30k+ HP, 30k+ resistances 6K WD , evade-mitigate, passive and active healing, spam for harmony, pop ult

win

So let's see it?

if you haven't seen it you don't watch enough streamers or listen to zone chat flexes

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

Depends which "unkillable players" we're talking about. If we're talking about regular tanks that deal no damage to enemies or healing to allies but they're just simply very tanky then it's totally ok as they've invested everything to be unkillable but other then that they dont bring much into the battle. If we're talking about people that cannot be killed by group of people but that group of people is bunch of unorganised casuals not knowing what they're doing then it's still fine that 1 person can survive by playing way better then those casuals. If we're talking about tanky setups that can deal lot of damage or heal allies a lot and they're hard to be taken down even by multiple decent players then yeah there is an issue. So now which immortal players we're talking about ?

Isn´t it quite obvious that it´s about the last iteration you bring into play?
Why even try to distract from the argument with such a comment.

Everyone who plays pvp and is somewhat experienced knows what is talked about and denial comes (if at all) from people playing exactly that.

gepe87

Wrong. Ball group is the main problem: you dont need much strategy. Just spamming the same skills over and over.

WillhelmBlack

Go non CP.

mague

zyk wrote: »

The tank meta has been out of control for years. Including troll tank builds. Just because they can be built doesn't mean they should exist. Everyone, including the players who play them, call them troll tanks for a reason. Troll builds aren't a good thing in any game.

It is not the meta. It is what people make out of it.

The game wants you to be sort of tanky due to siege/oil and lag. Nothing wrong. But trolling people on rocks and towers until you bleed from boredom is bad.

A tank running to the siege weapons and destroying them is not a bad thing. Just as a healer who is able to stand in the *beep* to revive someone is not bad.

martinhpb16_ESO

Kel wrote: »

This problem also has to do with the way Zos has severely hit damage this patch, increased costs of abilities by a large margin, at the same time they basically taken defile out of the game, made bleed damage affected by resists, and nerfed Oblivion damage. All while not touching healing and making it hard as hell to damage a tanky set up and hurting resources to do so.

If they wanted unkillable groups in Cyrodiil, or just players who build tanky and maybe run with a pocket healer, they've gone in the right direction. The rest of us do what we can while trying to fight down the mounting frustration....🤷‍♂️

This ^. For us solo players that don't want to run tanky its as boring and frustrating as hell

biminirwb17_ESO

ZOS has tried a few things to reduce the troll tank builds, Oblivion damage, Sloads etc but of course they had to reduce the effectiveness of these due to screams of nerf anything that kills me.

Shields had shield breaker as a counter, it got nerfed. VD proc off siege damage? Nah nerf.

All that is left is troll tanks so nobody dies and no nerfs are needed.

wolfbone

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

I would like to also note that you are asking for ZoS to make it easier to kill players. You're a player.. if they make it easier to kill players then you're easier to kill, and you're currently already upset that you're easy for good players to kill..

I dont think you understand. I'm saying that it's ridicolous when it takes a whole group of people to kill one guy. if you cant be bothered to properly read my post, then please dont bother trying to claim I'm saying things when for anyone who ah read it, can clealry see my propbelem is with the way whole groups of players to kill one person is not very fun.

Marcus684

wolfbone wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

I would like to also note that you are asking for ZoS to make it easier to kill players. You're a player.. if they make it easier to kill players then you're easier to kill, and you're currently already upset that you're easy for good players to kill..

I dont think you understand. I'm saying that it's ridicolous when it takes a whole group of people to kill one guy. if you cant be bothered to properly read my post, then please dont bother trying to claim I'm saying things when for anyone who ah read it, can clealry see my propbelem is with the way whole groups of players to kill one person is not very fun.

Maybe instead, you need to reread and reconsider his post. You’re asking ZOS to change “health regen and so on” to make players less tanky, which will likely make a significant portion of the players easier to kill, NOT just the “tanky” players. Maybe even you. Be careful what you ask for. You just may get it.

Synapsis123

PVP is way better now than the last two patches. I much prefer the brawling pvp to the hit 5 dots and person dies meta.

Heatnix90

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS has tried a few things to reduce the troll tank builds, Oblivion damage, Sloads etc but of course they had to reduce the effectiveness of these due to screams of nerf anything that kills me.

Shields had shield breaker as a counter, it got nerfed. VD proc off siege damage? Nah nerf.

All that is left is troll tanks so nobody dies and no nerfs are needed.

Sloads and Oblivion were nerfed because the tanky builds they were meant to counter were able to abuse them completely, thus making it a moot point.

Shieldbreaker was a niche set that was mostly used in duels, zos just decided to randomly nerf it because quotas.

As far as proc sets, ZOS stated that said sets proccing from siege was unintended so they fixed that mistake.

Kadoin

Marcus684 wrote: »

wolfbone wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

I would like to also note that you are asking for ZoS to make it easier to kill players. You're a player.. if they make it easier to kill players then you're easier to kill, and you're currently already upset that you're easy for good players to kill..

I dont think you understand. I'm saying that it's ridicolous when it takes a whole group of people to kill one guy. if you cant be bothered to properly read my post, then please dont bother trying to claim I'm saying things when for anyone who ah read it, can clealry see my propbelem is with the way whole groups of players to kill one person is not very fun.

Maybe instead, you need to reread and reconsider his post. You’re asking ZOS to change “health regen and so on” to make players less tanky, which will likely make a significant portion of the players easier to kill, NOT just the “tanky” players. Maybe even you. Be careful what you ask for. You just may get it.

They don't understand that when ZOS nerfs healing across the board, the same exact players will find ways to be just as tanky and do even more damage relative to others, just how it is now. ZOS would have to also address damage at the same time as healing for this not to be the case, but you know they will not because it will mean nerfs in PvE and players have literally had enough of that.

Juhasow

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Depends which "unkillable players" we're talking about. If we're talking about regular tanks that deal no damage to enemies or healing to allies but they're just simply very tanky then it's totally ok as they've invested everything to be unkillable but other then that they dont bring much into the battle. If we're talking about people that cannot be killed by group of people but that group of people is bunch of unorganised casuals not knowing what they're doing then it's still fine that 1 person can survive by playing way better then those casuals. If we're talking about tanky setups that can deal lot of damage or heal allies a lot and they're hard to be taken down even by multiple decent players then yeah there is an issue. So now which immortal players we're talking about ?

Isn´t it quite obvious that it´s about the last iteration you bring into play?
Why even try to distract from the argument with such a comment.

Everyone who plays pvp and is somewhat experienced knows what is talked about and denial comes (if at all) from people playing exactly that.

It really isnt that obvious. Many times I see people complaining about unkillable players and when asked more specifically to describe the situation it turns out it was one of the first 2 descriptions. My comment is more of a reminder that despite the fact there are situations where tankiness of some setups is problematic there is still lot of moments where hate towards someones tankiness is unfounded since he is either a true tank or simply he was fightning unexperienced players. Second situation is seen often , I was personally reported few times for winning 1vX by people I've killed and in pm some of the reasons were saying that I was too tanky for a damage dealer where in reality my enemies had similar stats like me but they were doing barely anything and didnt even knew what break free is.

Odditorium

I believe that the final solution to this dilemma; is to IGNORE said players AND ball groups. Don't play their game or feed the beast; use passive resistance. Ultimately, it will become a dull game for them and they will be forced to change their tactics. Now if only the rest of zone chat would listen LOL