I hate DeathMatch

raasdal

I am considering deliberately removing DM from my Queue.

It feels like a zergball-fest, with everyone balling on eachother at the center of the map. 9/10 times. And half of those times, at least one team gets one or two healbots. These BG's will go full 15 min, with no one getting above 300 points.

In Domination or Chaosball or Relics there are plenty of chances for real 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, 2v3, etc. etc. The DM rounds all seem to just turn into one huge 4v4v4 brawl which gets super boring super fast.

OG_Kaveman

K

VaranisArano

Yes?
While the other match types sometimes reward teams for splitting up to cover more objectives, Deathmatch favors teams who coordinate and fight well together.

Which isn't that surprising, really, given that Bbattlegrounds was created to appeal to the "I just wanna small scale, no zergs" players in Cyrodiil. Small group, coordinated play is exactly what BGs were designed for.

Thogard

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

Koensol

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

Except when every other high MMR game is filled to the brink with nightblade healbots doing 2m+ healing each game. Whether you accurately judge the importance of healers or not, the result is garbage gameplay where people rarely die. Welcome to PC EU.

Thogard

Koensol wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

Except when every other high MMR game is filled to the brink with nightblade healbots doing 2m+ healing each game. Whether you accurately judge the importance of healers or not, the result is garbage gameplay where people rarely die. Welcome to PC EU.

On NA we just shame the healbots into playing something else. EU needs to step up their chat PvP game.

Bashev

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

In EU, I can do 3.5m+ damage + minor defile and major defile all the time (Warden OP) and barely any of the teams reach 300 points.

The problem is the burst dmage. If you are build for burst then you luck sustain or defence and in such games you will be eaten alive. But if you have sustain and mitigation you can finish you opponents

idk

DM is the most boring BG. Great for days when walking and chewing gum is a challenge but that is about it.

I have seen it done better in other games.

Qbiken

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

In EU, I can do 3.5m+ damage + minor defile and major defile all the time (Warden OP) and barely any of the teams reach 300 points.

The problem is the burst dmage. If you are build for burst then you luck sustain or defence and in such games you will be eaten alive. But if you have sustain and mitigation you can finish you opponents

Thogard isn't wrong however, many DM's on PC/EU are filled with teams who fail at the "position game" (of you could call it that) and prefer to just brawl, which makes them very susceptible to being sandwiched by the 3rd team.

As long as you can patently wait you can win most DM games on PC/EU (assuming your team composition isn't too horrible), because it's almost guaranteed that two teams will start to brawl in some mosh pit at the centre of the map.

Bashev

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

In EU, I can do 3.5m+ damage + minor defile and major defile all the time (Warden OP) and barely any of the teams reach 300 points.

The problem is the burst dmage. If you are build for burst then you luck sustain or defence and in such games you will be eaten alive. But if you have sustain and mitigation you can finish you opponents

Thogard isn't wrong however, many DM's on PC/EU are filled with teams who fail at the "position game" (of you could call it that) and prefer to just brawl, which makes them very susceptible to being sandwiched by the 3rd team.

As long as you can patently wait you can win most DM games on PC/EU (assuming your team composition isn't too horrible), because it's almost guaranteed that two teams will start to brawl in some mosh pit at the centre of the map.

I have 2 builds prepared:

• High single target damage with cross healing
• High sustain aoe damage with constant roots and defiling

If players are positioning and they have the mobility I use the first build, if they dont have the mobility and stack together I switch to the second build.

I want to see how will you position yourself vs charged trait destro staffs with frozen blockade on a warden if you are not stamina, vampire or nord? Once we catch one member of the group and he cannot escape, after we eliminate him we get points and we make 4vs3 fight trivial if the other team wants to fight.

MY point is: prepare a few builds and adjust based on the players you have and the enemies you should fight.

Qbiken

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

In EU, I can do 3.5m+ damage + minor defile and major defile all the time (Warden OP) and barely any of the teams reach 300 points.

The problem is the burst dmage. If you are build for burst then you luck sustain or defence and in such games you will be eaten alive. But if you have sustain and mitigation you can finish you opponents

Thogard isn't wrong however, many DM's on PC/EU are filled with teams who fail at the "position game" (of you could call it that) and prefer to just brawl, which makes them very susceptible to being sandwiched by the 3rd team.

As long as you can patently wait you can win most DM games on PC/EU (assuming your team composition isn't too horrible), because it's almost guaranteed that two teams will start to brawl in some mosh pit at the centre of the map.

I have 2 builds prepared:

• High single target damage with cross healing
• High sustain aoe damage with constant roots and defiling

If players are positioning and they have the mobility I use the first build, if they dont have the mobility and stack together I switch to the second build.

I want to see how will you position yourself vs charged trait destro staffs with frozen blockade on a warden if you are not stamina, vampire or nord? Once we catch one member of the group and he cannot escape, after we eliminate him we get points and we make 4vs3 fight trivial if the other team wants to fight.

MY point is: prepare a few builds and adjust based on the players you have and the enemies you should fight.

I agree with the bolded part you wrote 100%, my point was more that you can gain alot in a deathmatch with good positioning as thogard stated, even tho positioning isn't everything, I think it makes a big difference and can sometimes compensate for having a less optimised group (just speaking from my own experience)

And to answer your question: Race against time maybe? Assuming you've barspace for it

Just want to clarify that I'm not bashing or calling anyone or any particular team out, just sharing my experience with how I see it on PC/EU.

Koensol

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DM is usually the game mode that involves the least “balling up” in the center of the map.

At the higher end of the skill spectrum, it’s mostly just three teams all circling each other and hesitating to commit to a fight out of fear of getting hit by the third team...

Just keep playing. As you get better you’ll find that healers are less important and that the fighting is less centralized / hectic and more position focused.

In EU, I can do 3.5m+ damage + minor defile and major defile all the time (Warden OP) and barely any of the teams reach 300 points.

The problem is the burst dmage. If you are build for burst then you luck sustain or defence and in such games you will be eaten alive. But if you have sustain and mitigation you can finish you opponents

Thogard isn't wrong however, many DM's on PC/EU are filled with teams who fail at the "position game" (of you could call it that) and prefer to just brawl, which makes them very susceptible to being sandwiched by the 3rd team.

As long as you can patently wait you can win most DM games on PC/EU (assuming your team composition isn't too horrible), because it's almost guaranteed that two teams will start to brawl in some mosh pit at the centre of the map.

I have 2 builds prepared:

• High single target damage with cross healing
• High sustain aoe damage with constant roots and defiling

If players are positioning and they have the mobility I use the first build, if they dont have the mobility and stack together I switch to the second build.

I want to see how will you position yourself vs charged trait destro staffs with frozen blockade on a warden if you are not stamina, vampire or nord? Once we catch one member of the group and he cannot escape, after we eliminate him we get points and we make 4vs3 fight trivial if the other team wants to fight.

MY point is: prepare a few builds and adjust based on the players you have and the enemies you should fight.

I agree with the bolded part you wrote 100%, my point was more that you can gain alot in a deathmatch with good positioning as thogard stated, even tho positioning isn't everything, I think it makes a big difference and can sometimes compensate for having a less optimised group (just speaking from my own experience)

And to answer your question: Race against time maybe? Assuming you've barspace for it

Just want to clarify that I'm not bashing or calling anyone or any particular team out, just sharing my experience with how I see it on PC/EU.

You are definately right about the positioning, and I agree with Thogard as well on that point. My point is that in many games this point becomes almost irrelevant because of the amount of healbots present. Like, you can move around all you want, but a good healbot will still be able to keep their team alive. Even in a sandwich. Especially when his team also has plenty of heals slotted themself. Its just completely out of whack at the moment. Like its no surprise people fall back on cheese like 2h ult.

The occasions when there are no nightblade healbots and you can have proper 4v4v4 against good players are very rare indeed. I have played a nb healer in the past and I know how easy it is to completely ruin a game for the opposition.

Thogard

If you get caught in a wall of elements or a permafrost, you already lost. Learn to prekite.

I am aware that EU tends to build tankier whereas NA tends to play farther apart.

NA hasn’t really seen many harmony groups succeed in BGs though. It’s been tried many times but NA mobility is just significantly higher than EU (perhaps this is due to the higher server quality making mobility a more reliable defense on NA?) which makes it extremely difficult to land synergies on targets.

I’d be curious to see how many harmony groups are on EU: with the players moving more slowly and having higher HP, id expect it to be a more effective tactic there.

Koensol

Thogard wrote: »

If you get caught in a wall of elements or a permafrost, you already lost. Learn to prekite.

I am aware that EU tends to build tankier whereas NA tends to play farther apart.

NA hasn’t really seen many harmony groups succeed in BGs though. It’s been tried many times but NA mobility is just significantly higher than EU (perhaps this is due to the higher server quality making mobility a more reliable defense on NA?) which makes it extremely difficult to land synergies on targets.

I’d be curious to see how many harmony groups are on EU: with the players moving more slowly and having higher HP, id expect it to be a more effective tactic there.

Two friends of mine experimented with a novabomb duo in BGs and it worked pretty damn well, even in high MMR they had some amazing bombs. Mainly because people just didn't expect it. They became more cautious afterwards though. This was about 2 updates ago, but I don't think it would turn out any different in the current patch.

brandonv516

I would love the Sigil of Power to come back (maybe add other Sigils).

But they need to redo the whole idea so it doesn't end up rewarding the premades who are already spanking.

Chrlynsch

brandonv516 wrote: »

I would love the Sigil of Power to come back (maybe add other Sigils).

But they need to redo the whole idea so it doesn't end up rewarding the premades who are already spanking.

Got to Mario cart balance them power-upz.

Royaji

Chrlynsch wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I would love the Sigil of Power to come back (maybe add other Sigils).

But they need to redo the whole idea so it doesn't end up rewarding the premades who are already spanking.

Got to Mario cart balance them power-upz.

A "blue-shell", which can only be picked up by the team in 3rd and which goes to explode and one shot everything in 10m radius of the best player on the leading team, can be an interesting idea to promote spreading up. Just saying...

CompM4s

Dont que for it

Iskiab

Spec for more damage. If everyone’s tanky and high healing the game will go full time but the group with 2 healers rarely wins. Burst as a group and people will go down.

Beardimus

raasdal wrote: »

I am considering deliberately removing DM from my Queue.

It feels like a zergball-fest, with everyone balling on eachother at the center of the map. 9/10 times. And half of those times, at least one team gets one or two healbots. These BG's will go full 15 min, with no one getting above 300 points.

In Domination or Chaosball or Relics there are plenty of chances for real 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, 2v3, etc. etc. The DM rounds all seem to just turn into one huge 4v4v4 brawl which gets super boring super fast.

I agree, DM is my least fave BG mode. After the random daily I queue for all but DM.

oxygen_thief

Royaji wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I would love the Sigil of Power to come back (maybe add other Sigils).

But they need to redo the whole idea so it doesn't end up rewarding the premades who are already spanking.

Got to Mario cart balance them power-upz.

A "blue-shell", which can only be picked up by the team in 3rd and which goes to explode and one shot everything in 10m radius of the best player on the leading team, can be an interesting idea to promote spreading up. Just saying...

its a stupid idea as for me. one should win due to higher skill and without help of an exploding crutch. if there is not enough spreadouting for you then create a new char and join low lvl battlegrounds.