To the PVErs out there who go into PVP zones...

DUTCH_REAPER

Welcome! We josh back and forth on here a lot I admit that. But in all honesty we all at some point went into PVP zones for the first time or had really bad experiences in PVP. But all 3 factions have got some seriously epic people to play this game with. If you play in PCNA and have an EP toon message me and I will shoot you a guild invite. We would love to teach you and help you enjoy PVP. If you are not EP maybe a smelly DC or AD 😉 post up in here because there are many great guilds out there with awesome peeps to play this game with. Happy gaming y’all.

InvictusApollo

Aaahhh how cute.

zyk

I recall a time when the highly knowledgeable leaders of a PVP guild I was a member of decided to help PC/NA/AD/Vivec improve by training a casual guild. They designed builds for them and lead some groups.

About half the casual guild had a breakdown in guild chat because the idea of having builds and playstyles on them was horribly offensive so the experiment was an overall failure. The end result was one of the leaders of the casual guild deciding he preferred playing with us. They didn't want to do the things necessary to be successful. They wanted to 'play their way'.

That's the biggest difference between PVP and PVE in ESO: a competitive mindset. Most ESO PVE has been nerfed to the point choices don't matter. Everyone can play their special snowflake build and have success without really learning the game. Players can play according to their whims. A competitive mindset drives a player to play according to what's most successful.

When it comes to PVP, having a competitive mindset by learning the rules and making intelligent choices according to them is essential. If one doesn't want to learn all of the mechanics and rules themselves, they must be willing to at least follow those who do. Most decent players aren't experts in mechanics, but they've learned to at least listen to those who are to varying degrees.

Morgul667

Please at least put on a pvp gear or something

Aurie

What about the PvE'ers who venture into PvP-land with the sole intention of doing stuff like collecting skyshards, and have zero interest in PvP?

PvP'ers say it's the same for them as they have to endure going into PvE-land for various reasons. But here's the thing.....they don't have to contend with being killed by other players as well as mobs as soon as they are spotted.

PvE mobs are relatively easy to kill, using whatever PvP gear/build is in normal use for that PvP player. And those that require a group to tackle...well, a player who happens to be alone can use the group-finder thing for a specifically-needed dungeon/boss. There is no question of needing to git gud in order to survive in PvE-land.

This is all contrary to PvE'ers in PvP-land who don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell without some knowledge, practise and gear for PvP'ing. And forget about quietly slipping in and then out again, mission achieved....a marauding mass of PvP'ers will always be found lurking under the nearest rock. But of course so they should be, after all PvP-land is their territory and killing other players is what they do.

What I'm saying is that the two situations are very different, there is no such thing as a white flag in PvP-land, and unfortunately some PvE content ZOS has in its wisdom chosen to place deep in the heart of the PvP domain!

zyk

Aurelle1 wrote: »

What about the PvE'ers who venture into PvP-land with the sole intention of doing stuff like collecting skyshards, and have zero interest in PvP?

If you want the rewards, you must overcome the challenges. It's really that simple and no different than defeating a monster for a reward you want.

This doesn't necessarily mean learning to PVP. There are countless methods from simply trying over and over again until it works to teaming up with friends to hiring PVP players to help just like people pay for PVE trial carries.

BahometZ

To dismiss PvEers as not having a competitive mindset kinda ignores most endgame PvE. Vet trials and vet DLC dungeons require getting the gear, training the skills, learning mechanics, communication, teamwork, all the things. I agree PvP is a more dynamic challenge, but neither side lacks something, they just have different goals. And plenty people do both anyway.

zyk

BahometZ wrote: »

To dismiss PvEers as not having a competitive mindset kinda ignores most endgame PvE. Vet trials and vet DLC dungeons require getting the gear, training the skills, learning mechanics, communication, teamwork, all the things. I agree PvP is a more dynamic challenge, but neither side lacks something, they just have different goals. And plenty people do both anyway.

We're using such general terms. I think 'PVE players' really means casual PVE players in this context. Competitive PVE players, however many are left, certainly take the game as seriously and in my experience do well in PVP zones.

Though I disagree with DLC dungeons as PVP players who rarely PVE easily derp their way through them with suboptimal builds without issue when they need to.

Cadbury

I vote for Dutch Reaper to be the new PvP representative.

TheRealPotoroo

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Welcome! We josh back and forth on here a lot I admit that. But in all honesty we all at some point went into PVP zones for the first time or had really bad experiences in PVP. But all 3 factions have got some seriously epic people to play this game with. If you play in PCNA and have an EP toon message me and I will shoot you a guild invite. We would love to teach you and help you enjoy PVP. If you are not EP maybe a smelly DC or AD 😉 post up in here because there are many great guilds out there with awesome peeps to play this game with. Happy gaming y’all.

You almost had me but then you said EP and broke the spell.

InvictusApollo

Aurelle1 wrote: »

What about the PvE'ers who venture into PvP-land with the sole intention of doing stuff like collecting skyshards, and have zero interest in PvP?

PvP'ers say it's the same for them as they have to endure going into PvE-land for various reasons. But here's the thing.....they don't have to contend with being killed by other players as well as mobs as soon as they are spotted.

PvE mobs are relatively easy to kill, using whatever PvP gear/build is in normal use for that PvP player. And those that require a group to tackle...well, a player who happens to be alone can use the group-finder thing for a specifically-needed dungeon/boss. There is no question of needing to git gud in order to survive in PvE-land.

This is all contrary to PvE'ers in PvP-land who don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell without some knowledge, practise and gear for PvP'ing. And forget about quietly slipping in and then out again, mission achieved....a marauding mass of PvP'ers will always be found lurking under the nearest rock. But of course so they should be, after all PvP-land is their territory and killing other players is what they do.

What I'm saying is that the two situations are very different, there is no such thing as a white flag in PvP-land, and unfortunately some PvE content ZOS has in its wisdom chosen to place deep in the heart of the PvP domain!

Sure I agree that PvE mobs don't pose any threat even to a PvPer... but you know what can't be defeated by a PvPer in PvE? A vote to kick from group becuse your dps is too low to kill a boss

Kadoin

zyk wrote: »

I
That's the biggest difference between PVP and PVE in ESO: a competitive mindset. Most ESO PVE has been nerfed to the point choices don't matter. Everyone can play their special snowflake build and have success without really learning the game. Players can play according to their whims. A competitive mindset drives a player to play according to what's most successful.

Uhh in PvP you have more flexibility. Everyone can still play their own way in PvP, they just need the skill to do it first.

Aurie

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Aurelle1 wrote: »

What about the PvE'ers who venture into PvP-land with the sole intention of doing stuff like collecting skyshards, and have zero interest in PvP?

PvP'ers say it's the same for them as they have to endure going into PvE-land for various reasons. But here's the thing.....they don't have to contend with being killed by other players as well as mobs as soon as they are spotted.

PvE mobs are relatively easy to kill, using whatever PvP gear/build is in normal use for that PvP player. And those that require a group to tackle...well, a player who happens to be alone can use the group-finder thing for a specifically-needed dungeon/boss. There is no question of needing to git gud in order to survive in PvE-land.

This is all contrary to PvE'ers in PvP-land who don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell without some knowledge, practise and gear for PvP'ing. And forget about quietly slipping in and then out again, mission achieved....a marauding mass of PvP'ers will always be found lurking under the nearest rock. But of course so they should be, after all PvP-land is their territory and killing other players is what they do.

What I'm saying is that the two situations are very different, there is no such thing as a white flag in PvP-land, and unfortunately some PvE content ZOS has in its wisdom chosen to place deep in the heart of the PvP domain!

Sure I agree that PvE mobs don't pose any threat even to a PvPer... but you know what can't be defeated by a PvPer in PvE? A vote to kick from group becuse your dps is too low to kill a boss

Yes, there is a big kicking culture going on in PUGs these days, like no one seems to have any patience or remember that their own dps was once sub-optimal.

They also don't distinguish between PvP'ers and PvE'ers when it comes to kicking we are all subject to the same treatment. It's one of the reasons I don't ever group.

Sylosi

zyk wrote: »

That's the biggest difference between PVP and PVE in ESO: a competitive mindset. Most ESO PVE has been nerfed to the point choices don't matter. Everyone can play their special snowflake build and have success without really learning the game. Players can play according to their whims. A competitive mindset drives a player to play according to what's most successful.

When it comes to PVP, having a competitive mindset by learning the rules and making intelligent choices according to them is essential. If one doesn't want to learn all of the mechanics and rules themselves, they must be willing to at least follow those who do. Most decent players aren't experts in mechanics, but they've learned to at least listen to those who are to varying degrees.

LOL, PvPers with a competitive mindset are off playing competitive PvP games. ESO on the other hand is a complete joke in that regard and that is reflected by the playerbase - largely baddies who like low skilled, uncompetitive PvP where players with 10k hours can show their "skill" against players with 100 hours and where cheese carries hard.

Minnesinger

zyk wrote: »

I recall a time when the highly knowledgeable leaders of a PVP guild I was a member of decided to help PC/NA/AD/Vivec improve by training a casual guild. They designed builds for them and lead some groups.

About half the casual guild had a breakdown in guild chat because the idea of having builds and playstyles on them was horribly offensive so the experiment was an overall failure. The end result was one of the leaders of the casual guild deciding he preferred playing with us. They didn't want to do the things necessary to be successful. They wanted to 'play their way'.

That's the biggest difference between PVP and PVE in ESO: a competitive mindset. Most ESO PVE has been nerfed to the point choices don't matter. Everyone can play their special snowflake build and have success without really learning the game. Players can play according to their whims. A competitive mindset drives a player to play according to what's most successful.

When it comes to PVP, having a competitive mindset by learning the rules and making intelligent choices according to them is essential. If one doesn't want to learn all of the mechanics and rules themselves, they must be willing to at least follow those who do. Most decent players aren't experts in mechanics, but they've learned to at least listen to those who are to varying degrees.

Can agree that this hard. Anyways, a casual guild with focus on having fun while pvping might work as well as pushing players to their limits or above. I know a helpful guild leader can make miracles and develope the skills. Anyways, strict rules don´t fit that well if one doesn´t want to go the path of improving. One can be happy to have someone to talk with and make new friends without care for winning the battles. Anyways the cry for "Help!!" while squirreling after a kiting player is so epic that I would like to experience that once more. Once because it gets kinda old if in every fight someone wanders away.

AhPook_Is_Here

Feed me Seymour.

Zer0_CooL

zyk wrote: »

That's the biggest difference between PVP and PVE in ESO: a competitive mindset. .

Thats why i still havent done any of the new vet Dungeons on HM, let alone vet trials.

But sure, runing in a zerg one button spaming the "survival skill" due to lag, takes a lot of skill.

karliahquinn

I just like to go to IC and fish to try and finish that achievement, but once you're spotted most of the time you are repeatedly sought out and killed, farming TVS I guess. Although I met the most awesome DC player the other day, they assessed that I wasn't going to fight them and they gave me a wave and rode off. I heart them.

Mr_Walker

karliahquinn wrote: »

I just like to go to IC and fish to try and finish that achievement, but once you're spotted most of the time you are repeatedly sought out and killed, farming TVS I guess. Although I met the most awesome DC player the other day, they assessed that I wasn't going to fight them and they gave me a wave and rode off. I heart them.

If you're on Xbox NA that may have been me!

karliahquinn

I'm on PC EU, but I still heart you also for showing kindness to your fellow players!

nesakinter

Most high-level PvPers I know are also fairly good in PvE and same goes for high-level PvErs who are often great in PvP. It is the casual majority who complain about PvP.

Pajor

I am not good at pvp, and only do end game pve content. Though I find cyrodiil fun regardless of being bad at killing players. I don't have pvp gear yet, and killed plenty of cp 810 nightblades that snuck up on me in pve gear which is kind of sad.

sentientomega

My favourite faction is AD, and, just once, I'd like to see a max gold map. I've seen max blue and max red maps, so I think it'd be nice to see AD in the best place they can be. But, don't misunderstand me; I have characters of all races, all alliances, and I don't have, and have never wanted to get, Any Race-Any Alliance.

I have no intention of learning how to PvP, and it isn't my idea of a fun time, and nor should that be held against me. I've done PvP in other games, too, and yes, you can have some really choice moments, but, overall, PvP's just not my thing.

Nevertheless, thanks, OP, for the well-wishing.

Minyassa

Aurie wrote: »

What about the PvE'ers who venture into PvP-land with the sole intention of doing stuff like collecting skyshards, and have zero interest in PvP?

PvP'ers say it's the same for them as they have to endure going into PvE-land for various reasons. But here's the thing.....they don't have to contend with being killed by other players as well as mobs as soon as they are spotted.

PvE mobs are relatively easy to kill, using whatever PvP gear/build is in normal use for that PvP player. And those that require a group to tackle...well, a player who happens to be alone can use the group-finder thing for a specifically-needed dungeon/boss. There is no question of needing to git gud in order to survive in PvE-land.

This is all contrary to PvE'ers in PvP-land who don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell without some knowledge, practise and gear for PvP'ing. And forget about quietly slipping in and then out again, mission achieved....a marauding mass of PvP'ers will always be found lurking under the nearest rock. But of course so they should be, after all PvP-land is their territory and killing other players is what they do.

What I'm saying is that the two situations are very different, there is no such thing as a white flag in PvP-land, and unfortunately some PvE content ZOS has in its wisdom chosen to place deep in the heart of the PvP domain!

If you look at various forum threads you'll see there are some builds that PvPers think are cheesy, disgusting and annoying because they enable someone to basically block and heal and withstand damage for so long it gets tedious and tiresome to keep attacking them. These sound to me to be the *perfect* PvE Cyrodiil build, so just hunt around and look for the things that people want nerfed or banned, and then use them to mind your own business and fish or whatever, and only use the really annoying skills if someone insists on trying to fight you. If you don't attack back, and just concentrate on staying alive, they will hopefully eventually give up and let you resume your PvEing. Better yet go with a friend who is also cheesy and healy, and you can heal and shield each other while not attacking. Just make sure you are in offline mode so you don't get hate whispers from people who get mad if you won't fight them.

nryerson1025

If I had to give one piece of advice to pveers trying to learn how to PvP or even enter cyrodiil for skyshards/events/fishing, it would be to seriously devalue the significance of your characters death.

If you die, or when you die, it does not matter. You can rez again and you're the same you were before it happened--irl and in game!

If someone is preventing you from getting a skyshard, or even if you're trying to learn PvP but just keep losing and aren't sure why , keep going! Try again, come back with a friend. Participate in the PvP for all its pros and cons and one day, something clicks and it is rewarding! I think I lost every fight I was in for a full year when I first started pvping, maybe longer than that. One day something just changed and, as far as this game goes, I've never looked back.

TheRealPotoroo

nryerson1025 wrote: »

If I had to give one piece of advice to pveers trying to learn how to PvP or even enter cyrodiil for skyshards/events/fishing, it would be to seriously devalue the significance of your characters death.

If you die, or when you die, it does not matter. You can rez again and you're the same you were before it happened--irl and in game!

If someone is preventing you from getting a skyshard, or even if you're trying to learn PvP but just keep losing and aren't sure why , keep going! Try again, come back with a friend. Participate in the PvP for all its pros and cons and one day, something clicks and it is rewarding! I think I lost every fight I was in for a full year when I first started pvping, maybe longer than that. One day something just changed and, as far as this game goes, I've never looked back.

You're ignoring the significant amount of real time that death costs you. If you're in a faction group fighting over territory and you die the odds are you'll rez and be able to get back to the fight reasonably quickly because fighting tends to happen near borders. But if you're a PVE players who's spent twenty to thirty minutes of real time just traveling to wherever to get the non-PVP resource you're interested in and you get killed then that's a big deal.

nryerson1025

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

If I had to give one piece of advice to pveers trying to learn how to PvP or even enter cyrodiil for skyshards/events/fishing, it would be to seriously devalue the significance of your characters death.

If you die, or when you die, it does not matter. You can rez again and you're the same you were before it happened--irl and in game!

If someone is preventing you from getting a skyshard, or even if you're trying to learn PvP but just keep losing and aren't sure why , keep going! Try again, come back with a friend. Participate in the PvP for all its pros and cons and one day, something clicks and it is rewarding! I think I lost every fight I was in for a full year when I first started pvping, maybe longer than that. One day something just changed and, as far as this game goes, I've never looked back.

You're ignoring the significant amount of real time that death costs you. If you're in a faction group fighting over territory and you die the odds are you'll rez and be able to get back to the fight reasonably quickly because fighting tends to happen near borders. But if you're a PVE players who's spent twenty to thirty minutes of real time just traveling to wherever to get the non-PVP resource you're interested in and you get killed then that's a big deal.

it takes maybe 10 minutesto ride across the entire map. 2 minutes btw keeps.

question: if you are in a trial and your group wipes to one boss, do you get as upset about the waste of time?

TheRealPotoroo

nryerson1025 wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

nryerson1025 wrote: »

If I had to give one piece of advice to pveers trying to learn how to PvP or even enter cyrodiil for skyshards/events/fishing, it would be to seriously devalue the significance of your characters death.

If you die, or when you die, it does not matter. You can rez again and you're the same you were before it happened--irl and in game!

If someone is preventing you from getting a skyshard, or even if you're trying to learn PvP but just keep losing and aren't sure why , keep going! Try again, come back with a friend. Participate in the PvP for all its pros and cons and one day, something clicks and it is rewarding! I think I lost every fight I was in for a full year when I first started pvping, maybe longer than that. One day something just changed and, as far as this game goes, I've never looked back.

You're ignoring the significant amount of real time that death costs you. If you're in a faction group fighting over territory and you die the odds are you'll rez and be able to get back to the fight reasonably quickly because fighting tends to happen near borders. But if you're a PVE players who's spent twenty to thirty minutes of real time just traveling to wherever to get the non-PVP resource you're interested in and you get killed then that's a big deal.

it takes maybe 10 minutesto ride across the entire map. 2 minutes btw keeps.

question: if you are in a trial and your group wipes to one boss, do you get as upset about the waste of time?

And the rest. It takes a LOT of real time to move around Cyrodiil to places not near your faction's territory and getting killed is hugely wasteful.