Faction night capping...fine as is?

Aaluvien

I should have added to my comments above -- with all things considered in PC/NA/CP -- the scoring rules do not hold the top spot on my list of concerns.

The game's performance deterioration tops my list of concerns; really, it's my only concern due to its magnitude (not just "unplayable" but literally "there is no game to play").

I don't care about the score if I'm not playing or playing on a very limited basis due to lag or not at all, especially, due to the rise in the nightly frequency of disconnects.

The disconnects make the priority decision easy...when the game shuts itself off...the game is now just taking up memory on my computer with no function or utility.

WaltherCarraway

Why no one suggests low pop bonus change?

biminirwb17_ESO

Why would I want to play EP during the "night" on NA PC Kaal. When the majority of their players would rather take Nikel or camp Cropsford than defend Arrius?

No wonder people log off.

idk

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why would I want to play EP during the "night" on NA PC Kaal. When the majority of their players would rather take Nikel or camp Cropsford than defend Arrius?

No wonder people log off.

In the early days of this game there were some great tactics used and leaders that had a good perspective. Those days are long gone.

Daxtacy

Look familiar? Night 2 of the AD night capping adventure!
https://imgur.com/a/SlzSNGj

Sacredx

This topic has been discussed many times before, by many people and many threads. People have made recommendations to the developers on how they may improve the scoring system. Unfortunately, most if not all of it has not been adopted. The scoring system you see now has been unchanged for who knows how long, probably since the start.

Regarding separate servers, there is no financial sense to do this. It's as simple as that.

Regarding limiting the scoring between x and y hours, whatever that is, this is also not viable. You can't expect the developers to just say to all those players that spend real money in game between x and y hours that they are now worth less than someone who plays outside those hours. Like most decisions, it is simply another financial matter.

The current low pop bonus is a joke and a half. All it is is your score x2. So if your score is low say 30, then it's 60 with low pop. And if your faction with the low pop bonus gets an influx of players and takes the map your score jumps to a ridiculous number even though it is designed to balance for low pop when if fact you are the one with the high pop compared to the rest. This system makes no sense whatsoever and this has been pointed out ages ago and the developers did nothing about it.

The only thing we can do is keep making threads like these and maybe one day they might notice and do something about it.

Scritchel

"The only thing we can do is keep making threads like these and maybe one day they might notice and do something about it."

That's pretty ironic coming from you sacred. Has your group maybe tried not to just pvdoor the entire night with a 3 bar pop vs the lower ep and dc pops?

And the low pop bonus is not a joke. The double ap it also brings is great. If anything it should occur more frequently rather than having the under dog factions take the slaughterfest that is 3 bars vs 1 for 2 or so hours before it kicks in.

Soul_Demon

Aaluvien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Night capping in a 24/7 game played by people from across the world is a myth fabricated by people who think Cyrodiil is designed to be competitive PvP. I saw someone actually attempt to equate it to esports.

Hardly a "myth".

The crux of the problem is that during the North American night capping, that player base is unwilling to self-balance the population. This occurred prior to the recent campaign locks and the locks exacerbate the problem by tying their hands.

From the oceanic player's viewpoint, there is no 'night capping' since the server population is large enough and, relatively, equally distributed during those hours to check against long periods of one faction "running the map" and holding it. Therefore, no regular and predictable massive score movements.

So, unless the players self correct the issue (which they have proven they will not and recently can't due to campaign locks) then you're left with a relatively meaningless scoring system as it's currently structured since the majority of players have to deal with wild swings in the score nightly (during which the vast minority are online) that reflect little-to-no reality of the majority's actions.

(((Myth Busted)))

You had me up to the point of "This occurred prior to the recent campaign locks and the locks exacerbate the problem by tying their hands." as in my view since you can change factions after a 30 day camp they simply are unwilling to face more than one bar pop vs the three bars they field every single night. This speaks to the quality of players we have doing this and their motivations are hardly those many of the community share. Dynamic scoring during the hours of 12 midnight to 6 am would help when people show they are unwilling to shift to balance the populations. Reduce the points possible by a factor of the number of bars they have over the other factions. At this point its abundantly clear the players doing this know it, we all know they know it....and they just don't care for anything but overwhelming the one bars of the other two factions nightly.

josh.lackey_ESO

One quick fix for night-capping is to have the points per tick be proportional to the population on during the tick. That would be relatively simple to code. So taking the whole map at night wouldn't affect the score as much.

Sacredx

Scritchel wrote: »

"The only thing we can do is keep making threads like these and maybe one day they might notice and do something about it."

That's pretty ironic coming from you sacred. Has your group maybe tried not to just pvdoor the entire night with a 3 bar pop vs the lower ep and dc pops?

And the low pop bonus is not a joke. The double ap it also brings is great. If anything it should occur more frequently rather than having the under dog factions take the slaughterfest that is 3 bars vs 1 for 2 or so hours before it kicks in.

Yes, we have tried a lot of different ideas. We have tried playing normally, not logging in, pushing the map hoping to get a response, not pushing, changing factions. At the end of the day it does whatever it wants. Sometimes we look at the map and decide to not even bother playing because it is already conquered and stays like that for a while. And then some people decide to somehow link this as our doing even though we were not even logged in. So you see you are not the first nor the last to say these things.

And you have to understand that we are here to have fun, not to be told what we can and can't do.

maxjapank

Prince_of_all_Pugs wrote: »

This may get down voted to hell but you have to understand , AD has always had a larger oceanic presence during late night and ad needs the night capping to equalize the score a bit more. Without the night capping, AD would completely falter and be 3rd place every single time because of our low quality troops. If ad were to be in 3rd place all the time , they could quit cyrodiil all together and then We’re would the pvp go? Y’all have to understand how badly ad gets farmed on NA PC, the poor ad tolerate it because of those sweet campaign rewards at the end.

No, Ad has not always had the larger population. Just two campaigns ago, you would see three Japanese guilds log on at 10pm Japan time and push south. You’d also see an influx of EP push south at roughly the same time. I and other AD remember vividly being pushed with only Fare left, and we would almost lose that.

The question would be where did those Japanese guilds go because they aren’t as active as before.

Also, I think you will see a few AD change to blue next campaign. The map is yellow when we log on and there is nothing to do. So love it or hate it, but that might put a little more life into the DC side. As for EP, just ewwwww. 😉

Minnesinger

Instead of no-CP and CP campaign they could try oceanic/ japan focused campaign where the points could be calculated by their play time. Then there is one for the NA people who can play on their campaign. You could play both but only for the limited time of the day. Just one thought.

TipsyDrow

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

You're talking about specifically an OCE server, I never suggested that. I said a west coast NA server. You see the only reason why our ping is HORRIBLE is because the closest server is in east NA.
Lol it is entirely related to the topic because were talking about a different regions prime time effecting the campaign because its population is stacked almost entirely into one faction, said regions prime time is in the servers off time hence night cappers.

Considering the recent problems ESO is having is due to server stresses it would it really be asking so much to get a west coast server?

Please explain how giving the lowest pop faction more points when they're not playing is anything but a measure of balance to prevent one team falling so far behind it's impossible to win or even stay competitive.

And in terms of faction lock, I'm almost 100% certain that if it wasnt in place the only thing those AD would do is change team to recap as another faction only to ultimately swap back to AD and make sure they ended up with everything in the end. So no, I dont think faction lock should be reversed.

Some of you seem to be under the impression that OCE prime time is evenly split in terms of faction. no, no it is not....and that's what I find annoying, it's only AD that are consistently on in large numbers.

The server is not on the east coast, it's in texas.

Hashtag_

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

idk wrote: »

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

I'm telling them to stop stacking one faction.

they used to be able to switch but RP nerds ruined that

BRogueNZ

Daxtacy wrote: »

Look familiar? Night 2 of the AD night capping adventure!
https://imgur.com/a/SlzSNGj

yeah pretty daft, we had the zerg herders online which thanks to the lag they generate is a good time to log even if your AD. They do that then don't come back until day shift have tidied up the retaliation starting from perhaps 1 or 2 keeps before we have a pop to push team purple.

idk

TipsyDrow wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

You're talking about specifically an OCE server, I never suggested that. I said a west coast NA server. You see the only reason why our ping is HORRIBLE is because the closest server is in east NA.
Lol it is entirely related to the topic because were talking about a different regions prime time effecting the campaign because its population is stacked almost entirely into one faction, said regions prime time is in the servers off time hence night cappers.

Considering the recent problems ESO is having is due to server stresses it would it really be asking so much to get a west coast server?

Please explain how giving the lowest pop faction more points when they're not playing is anything but a measure of balance to prevent one team falling so far behind it's impossible to win or even stay competitive.

And in terms of faction lock, I'm almost 100% certain that if it wasnt in place the only thing those AD would do is change team to recap as another faction only to ultimately swap back to AD and make sure they ended up with everything in the end. So no, I dont think faction lock should be reversed.

Some of you seem to be under the impression that OCE prime time is evenly split in terms of faction. no, no it is not....and that's what I find annoying, it's only AD that are consistently on in large numbers.

The server is not on the east coast, it's in texas.

That does not make it much better. AUS/NZ would get a much better ping from a west coast server. There is a lot of infrastructure, splices, switches, routers and such between the west coast and even Texas. Each slow down their ping and that is not even talking about the greater chance of a bad switch making things even worse.

Regardless, much of the AUS/NZ community that plays ESO is on the NA server and they have always had a presence in Cyrodiil since the game launched. That person is correct about the effect of them having faction lock and not having it. They have a right to play without being hindered. To tell them otherwise is to tell them they are less important, less valuable as people and consumers.

Stridig

Well.... if they're nightcapping then they're certainly not hindered. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

SirAndy

Stridig wrote: »

Well.... if they're nightcapping then they're certainly not hindered. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Actually, they're just playing while you are not. If that bothers you, stop sleeping ...

Voltranox

The biggest problem is zergs and the hammer.

All factions engage in zergs at various times. But when you throw the hammer into the mix, it usually attracts tons of extra players to flock to it, which results in truly massive zergs of 40 to 60 characters. The only hope for a smaller populated faction to stop it is to try to create an organized keep defence...which the hammer makes impossible.

So the big blob of 60 players (with an organized guild ball group at its center) arrives at a keep. They are through the walls and swarming all over the 15-or-so defenders within seconds. Add an Emperor to the mix, and it makes things worse.

In addition, faction lock has stopped players from using their various other characters to play as an underdog, or to balance the campaign.

In the previous faction lock before One Tamriel, if one side was having a big win, many players would implore their faction not to push the other factions back to their gate, so that the campaign was kept alive and interesting. Occasionally you'd see petty minded players insist on pushing until the campaign was dead, but not often. After OT, I really enjoyed playing on different characters in all three factions. Refreshing and lots of new friends and perspectives. Factions are basically an illusion. Each faction has ALL the good and bad, and it can change daily depending on who is playing.

Now, the attitude seems the opposite. Wiping the entire map, crushing all resistance with 50-player zergs, and utterly killing the gameplay is the standard. Mindless.

For example, trying to take back just one tri-keep with 5 other players yesterday, after being gated, we were swarmed by a full zerg of the leading faction. Several of the few people left on the faction logged out, as did I. Every day I log into ESO to play pvp only, and the time I stay gets less and less. Eventually I won't bother, and ESO will simply fade from my memory. Oh well, it's only a game.

Ahtu

The funny part is how these night cappers get their butts handed to them on the weekends when people are actually defending keeps. We will continue to fight them on the weekends and keep handing their butts to them for as long as they want to night cap. Bring it on you yellow-bellies.

Dominion_Nightblade

Ahtu wrote: »

The funny part is how these night cappers get their butts handed to them on the weekends when people are actually defending keeps. We will continue to fight them on the weekends and keep handing their butts to them for as long as they want to night cap. Bring it on you yellow-bellies.

Ok, fine! It's on like donkey Kong!

vamp_emily

I don't think DCs biggest problem is "zergs and the hammer".

DC's biggest problem is that the players are OP ( in a bad way ). If AD nightcaps/winning then DC goes primary for EP. If EP is winning DC goes primary for AD. I just don't understand, DC helps the winning alliance get more points by not putting pressure on them.

This reminds me of the current DC alliance in Kaal/NA/PC.
https://youtu.be/fCuYlKKFAO8




-

Stridig

SirAndy wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Well.... if they're nightcapping then they're certainly not hindered. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Actually, they're just playing while you are not. If that bothers you, stop sleeping ...

Lol. I'm too old not to sleep. It really doesn't bother me. There's plenty of action when I play. Score is whatever.

caeliusstarbreaker

Clearly the answer is faction locks

Delphinia

Currently, the map looks like this (PC/NA) Kaal camp... and does quite often during what may be considered "prime time" .. (it hasn't changed much and is now about midnight/1 am est Sat morning) ... also interesting to note that it was very similar just earlier in the day .. approximately 10 am est Friday, or so hours before.... Seems that a majority of the hours, the map appears as below, yet, it does seem to change drastically as someone posted above around 4 am est.

https://youtu.be/AjDbAPSbA3g

ATomiX69

VaranisArano wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

This is the correct answer ^^^

*There were no nightcappers prior to the return of faction locks.*

There always were and there always will be nightcappers no matter if there is faction lock or not.
Also its pretty easy to define nightcap on EU as whole europe consists of 4 time zones, so a Cap-Lock for like 4-6 hours per day would definitly be possible.
And yeah a large majority that plays on EU is from those 4 time zones actually, I think I got 2 friends of the 90ish people on my friendlist who play from outside of the 4 EU timezones.
But again as many people said, cyrodiil isnt meant to be competetive and some people take campaign score way too serious.

DisgracefulMind

Delphinia wrote: »

Currently, the map looks like this (PC/NA) Kaal camp... and does quite often during what may be considered "prime time" .. (it hasn't changed much and is now about midnight/1 am est Sat morning) ... also interesting to note that it was very similar just earlier in the day .. approximately 10 am est Friday, or so hours before.... Seems that a majority of the hours, the map appears as below, yet, it does seem to change drastically as someone posted above around 4 am est.

https://youtu.be/AjDbAPSbA3g

AD been 3-barred to poplocked every night in oceanic, which isn't 10pm EST, usually oceanic is considered 12-1am EST and onwards.

Funny how an oceanic player comes on and points out an issue about oceanic faction imbalances and AD players start going at her/him like they don't play oceanic or something.

There has been a huge top in balance in faction numbers for a very long time in Oceanic, it's not a new issue, just being denied regardless of any evidence and the constant differences in faction pops every night.

Kadoin

Delphinia wrote: »

Currently, the map looks like this (PC/NA) Kaal camp... and does quite often during what may be considered "prime time" .. (it hasn't changed much and is now about midnight/1 am est Sat morning) ... also interesting to note that it was very similar just earlier in the day .. approximately 10 am est Friday, or so hours before.... Seems that a majority of the hours, the map appears as below, yet, it does seem to change drastically as someone posted above around 4 am est.

https://youtu.be/AjDbAPSbA3g

Oh please, those same AD PvDoor guilds been PvDooring the map for years and some of them did so when it was DC's turn to dominate the night map. They know who they are and know exactly when to log off so they aren't embarrassed and trashed when the population evens out. No one should be defending those guilds. They have no skill and no real tactic besides balling up on 1-bar factions, yet some AD would choose to do so just because it helps them win. Pathetic.

And yes, some of those losers championed faction lock on this very forum because they hated when others in their own faction swapped to EP & DC and kept score balanced or stopped them from stealing scrolls and getting super ticks. Now they go and do whatever they want assisted by ZOS' stupid lock system that clearly is not working to accomplish anything besides massive score imbalances, the very thing people complained about a lack of locks causing!

Someone mentioned those JPN "EP" guilds that would appear on EP, yeah those were actually JPN AD guilds fed up with AD's crap every night and swapped around to, you know, actually get a fight in instead of sit around looking stupid or taking scrolls with no resistance and patting themselves on the back. Almost sounds like they were playing the game!

And I thought EU server was full of it.

ellahellabella

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

Currently, the map looks like this (PC/NA) Kaal camp... and does quite often during what may be considered "prime time" .. (it hasn't changed much and is now about midnight/1 am est Sat morning) ... also interesting to note that it was very similar just earlier in the day .. approximately 10 am est Friday, or so hours before.... Seems that a majority of the hours, the map appears as below, yet, it does seem to change drastically as someone posted above around 4 am est.

https://youtu.be/AjDbAPSbA3g

AD been 3-barred to poplocked every night in oceanic, which isn't 10pm EST, usually oceanic is considered 12-1am EST and onwards.

Funny how an oceanic player comes on and points out an issue about oceanic faction imbalances and AD players start going at her/him like they don't play oceanic or something.

There has been a huge top in balance in faction numbers for a very long time in Oceanic, it's not a new issue, just being denied regardless of any evidence and the constant differences in faction pops every night.

It's only gotten worse since faction lock too. Smh

maxjapank

Kadoin wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

Currently, the map looks like this (PC/NA) Kaal camp... and does quite often during what may be considered "prime time" .. (it hasn't changed much and is now about midnight/1 am est Sat morning) ... also interesting to note that it was very similar just earlier in the day .. approximately 10 am est Friday, or so hours before.... Seems that a majority of the hours, the map appears as below, yet, it does seem to change drastically as someone posted above around 4 am est.

https://youtu.be/AjDbAPSbA3g

Oh please, those same AD PvDoor guilds been PvDooring the map for years and some of them did so when it was DC's turn to dominate the night map. They know who they are and know exactly when to log off so they aren't embarrassed and trashed when the population evens out. No one should be defending those guilds. They have no skill and no real tactic besides balling up on 1-bar factions, yet some AD would choose to do so just because it helps them win. Pathetic.

And yes, some of those losers championed faction lock on this very forum because they hated when others in their own faction swapped to EP & DC and kept score balanced or stopped them from stealing scrolls and getting super ticks. Now they go and do whatever they want assisted by ZOS' stupid lock system that clearly is not working to accomplish anything besides massive score imbalances, the very thing people complained about a lack of locks causing!

Someone mentioned those JPN "EP" guilds that would appear on EP, yeah those were actually JPN AD guilds fed up with AD's crap every night and swapped around to, you know, actually get a fight in instead of sit around looking stupid or taking scrolls with no resistance and patting themselves on the back. Almost sounds like they were playing the game!

And I thought EU server was full of it.

Lol. Are you what is called "fake news"? While tis true that AD has an overwhelming Oceanic presence now. It hasn't always been the case. But you sound real salty. The animosity you harbor towards AD is understandable if you've been beaten one too many times. But it really makes it hard to take you seriously.

Anyways, I've mentioned in a couple of threads now. DC will have a few more hopping over to you next campaign. So hopefully DC will at least welcome a few more players and AD will find more challenging things to do.