[Jewelry Master Writs] What if ZOS sold Chromium Grains at 6 vouchers each from the Golden Vendor

Dusk_Coven

Simply inflating Master Writ payouts does not really help the wider issue of the exorbitant cost of upgrading jewelry for actual use, not just for turning in a writ.

ZOS can control both rarity and cost (the key issues) by selling Chromium grains from a vendor.
A suggested price is 6 vouchers per Chromium grain:

• Suppose the a moderate-payout Master Jewelry Writ is 300 vouchers and the only significant cost are the four Chromium Plates (40 grains).
• Further assume a profit margin of 25%.
• Therefore, each grain is valued at ( 300 vouchers / 125% / 40 grains ) = 6 vouchers.

ADDENDUM - Factoring in Zircon

Epic Writs

• Suppose a moderate-payout Epic master writ is 60 vouchers and the only significant cost are the three Zircon plates.
• Further assume a profit margin of 25%. In practice it would be less because of the other materials, but possibly more because writs rewarding over 60 vouchers are possible.
• Therefore, each Zircon Plate is valued at ( 60 vouchers / 125% / 3 plates ) = 16 vouchers.

Legendary Writs

• Suppose a moderate-payout Master Jewelry Writ is 300 vouchers and the only significant cost are the three Zircon Plates and four Chromium Plates.
• 300 vouchers is 240 more than our benchmark Epic Writ, so our calculations will use 240 vouchers and four Chromium Plates. Using the same assumption of 25% profit, this works out to 48 vouchers per Plate.

Skwor

No. I sell gold plates by the buckets. They are easy to farm, and a frequent reward for crafting dailies.

Solariken

I'd like a non-RNG way to acquire lots of things, Chromium included. Sure they should be expensive, but I'd like to see things like this available for writ vouchers and even tel var.

Emma_Overload

I think they should just put them in the Tel Var store, along with tempers for all the other crafts, too.

albesca

Honestly Chromium is rarely a problem for me, on those rare occasions when I'm nearly tempted to do a jewellery writ, it's the Zircon platings that I struggle to acquire (maybe I should farm dolmens, I don't know)

Taleof2Cities

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Simply inflating Master Writ payouts does not really help the wider issue of the exorbitant cost of upgrading jewelry for actual use, not just for turning in a writ.

ZOS’s original premise for keeping Chromium rare is so players don’t substitute challenging content with upgrading green jewelry to gold on a whim.

Sometimes forum-goers unintentionally forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

Other times, forum-goers conveniently forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Simply inflating Master Writ payouts does not really help the wider issue of the exorbitant cost of upgrading jewelry for actual use, not just for turning in a writ.

ZOS’s original premise for keeping Chromium rare is so players don’t substitute challenging content with upgrading green jewelry to gold on a whim.

Sometimes forum-goers unintentionally forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

Other times, forum-goers conveniently forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

I don't think anyone forgets part of the rationale for making gold tempers rare. The issue is jewelry is way outside of the norm when compared to the other crafts in obtaining gold level tempers. Also keep in mind Zircon is even worse than Chromium in its drop rate.

Dusk_Coven

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

I don't think anyone forgets part of the rationale for making gold tempers rare. The issue is jewelry is way outside of the norm when compared to the other crafts in obtaining gold level tempers. Also keep in mind Zircon is even worse than Chromium in its drop rate.

The situation (which is partly player-made by player-pricing in Guild Stores) is so bad ZOS feels they need to intervene with inflating the payout for jewelry writs (which is another can of worms).

Making people "farm" plating with 8 to 18 alts running jewelry daily writs, or making people grind Alik'r Dolmens for deconstruction -- neither of these are reasonable answers to a scarcity issue that encourages people to wait for the jewelry they want to USE (not even for master writs) show up at the Golden Vendor.

Hence the idea of rarity-gating with a voucher-cost source at an NPC vendor, as a supplement to non-guild-store sources. If it goes badly, they can either raise the voucher price or just pull it from the Golden Vendor, without having had to touch any of the existing systems.

Taleof2Cities

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Simply inflating Master Writ payouts does not really help the wider issue of the exorbitant cost of upgrading jewelry for actual use, not just for turning in a writ.

ZOS’s original premise for keeping Chromium rare is so players don’t substitute challenging content with upgrading green jewelry to gold on a whim.

Sometimes forum-goers unintentionally forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

Other times, forum-goers conveniently forget this when starting new threads about the exorbitant cost of Chromium.

I don't think anyone forgets part of the rationale for making gold tempers rare. The issue is jewelry is way outside of the norm when compared to the other crafts in obtaining gold level tempers.

That's a pretty subjective statement: "outside the norm".

I'm going to guess your version of "the norm" is different than the other 13.5+ million players in ESO.

Not that it matters. What ZOS considers as the norm is the only one that counts. With over a year (and another chapter) gone by since the debut of jewelry crafting, any drop rate changes would have been accomplished by now.

redlink1979

Vouchers for grains? No.
Obtaining chromium isn't a problem unless you want instant gratification.
Major problem on live is the low amount of vouchers granted by completing jewelry master writs, legendary or not.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

The situation (which is partly player-made by player-pricing in Guild Stores) is so bad ZOS feels they need to intervene with inflating the payout for jewelry writs (which is another can of worms).

Farm and get it for free or pay the price for the time others spend farming - as it happens with all the items that can be sold to others.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Making people "farm" plating with 8 to 18 alts running jewelry daily writs, or making people grind Alik'r Dolmens for deconstruction -- neither of these are reasonable answers

Again... Farm for free items or pay the price for the time others spend farming.

bmnoble

To be honest looking at OP proposal, would make existing suppliers of Chromium plating's slightly richer.


Think of this, the people who have a main crafter and likely alts maxed out doing daily writs as well, are likely to be the main ones earning writ vouchers, not the people seeking to buy the plating's from them to upgrade their gear.

Will your suggestion increase supply of Zircon and Chromium plating's? without a doubt, will it lower prices? no, because largely the same players selling those plating's at this time will be the majority of players supplying the market with plating's already, its doubtful that those players are going to lower their prices.

The people who do the JC writs at the moment stockpile their Chromium plating's, they rarely if ever get put up in guild stores, all this will do is allow those players interested in doing the new JC, to complete them without having to rely on the guild stores as much.

There will be no real benefit to players who have no interest in daily writs, who only leveled JC so that they could upgrade their own jewelry.


But and this is the most important part, people don't do master writs with the intention of buying their upgrade mats with the vouchers, they use those vouchers to buy stuff of the writ vendors.

Only those that have all they want off the writ vendor will buy grains, so people will still rely on guild stores for enough supply of plating's to do the writs.


Good chance their would be a price hike in other crafts Master writs that have 60 or so vouchers as well. Think of it this way right now you could buy a 60 or so voucher Wood working master writ, for around 20K spend another 24K on gold mats, do the writ and if your plan was brought in they would have enough vouchers to buy enough grains for a plating which you could sell for around 30 - 40K profit, don't see that staying the same for long if your plan goes ahead.

Either those writs would stop appearing in guild stores or their price or the price of the mats would go up to compensate for potential profit.


Maybe I am just being pessimistic but that's the way I see it.

Dusk_Coven

bmnoble wrote: »

To be honest looking at OP proposal, would make existing suppliers of Chromium plating's slightly richer.

Unless people just use vouchers to buy the materials. Ignore the market till the price comes down. Or just ignore it and use vouchers.
Right now the costs are such that people are smarter to wait for the Golden Vendor to sell them gold rings for 150k.
With vouchers at the current rate of maybe 700/voucher, you're looking at not too much over 168k, which is not bad considering there's no RNG.

bmnoble wrote: »

the people who have a main crafter and likely alts maxed out doing daily writs as well, are likely to be the main ones earning writ vouchers, not the people seeking to buy the plating's from them to upgrade their gear.

They'd be foolish to upgrade their gear -- especially in a pricey field like jewelry -- without upgrading their skill first.
In the worst case, get a crafter friend to do it for you.

bmnoble wrote: »

will it lower prices? no

Whether it does or not is irrelevant. By using vouchers, we bypass the Guild Stores entirely. You can still buy from it if you want, or you can do other types of crafts to get vouchers to then supplement your supply. Not necessarily to do writs, but to upgrade jewelry for personal use.

bmnoble wrote: »

all this will do is allow those players interested in doing the new JC, to complete them without having to rely on the guild stores as much.

Well, yes.
I see the Guild Stores as intended to supplement your "normal" sources for all sorts of items. However, because the price is so inflated, it is no longer serving that function reasonably for Jewelry crafting.

So if you let people get some with vouchers, you can effectively cap the cost at a calculated price that isn't too good but definitely not going to make you craft the item at a loss.
It's not intended that they use vouchers to make up the entire materials requirement -- they can just get enough grains to SUPPLEMENT their inventory that they got from other sources.

bmnoble wrote: »

But and this is the most important part, people don't do master writs with the intention of buying their upgrade mats with the vouchers, they use those vouchers to buy stuff of the writ vendors.

Considering that people try to sell voucher stuff all the time and use that as a benchmark for whether a writ is worth doing... I'm not sure this is true.
But even if it were true... nothing's stopping them from using their vouchers to buy voucher stuff.

If they did try to use only vouchers for all the mats, their profit would be comparable to the other crafts. Which is still sort of OK. At least they wouldn't just throwing away writs or sit on them for a long time because they can't get enough materials at a sensible price.
If you were sitting on 300+ vouchers, why not use that and come out ahead with maybe 330? Not so huge a profit that it blows all the other crafts away, but at least there's profit. Rather than feeling like you should hoard your plating and wait for that top-reward writ that might never come.

bmnoble wrote: »

Either those writs would stop appearing in guild stores or their price or the price of the mats would go up to compensate for potential profit.

Not a problem either way.
People who sell writs are looking for profit, not vouchers. If they stopped selling them, did them themselves to get vouchers, and tried to sell the vouchers on the market at a ludicrous price... well, they are already at a terrible price so we're not any worse. Just don't buy with gold.
There are lots of crafts easier and cheaper to get vouchers from than jewelry. Do the writs that you get. You can get your own vouchers and hence supplement your jewelry mats.

And if someone really didn't want to do any crafts but still needed the mats, there's always the Guild Store, which is basically trading gold for time.

redlink1979

bmnoble wrote: »

Maybe I am just being pessimistic but that's the way I see it.

You're not pessimistic, you're being realistic.

redlink1979

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

To be honest looking at OP proposal, would make existing suppliers of Chromium plating's slightly richer.

Unless people just use vouchers to buy the materials. Ignore the market till the price comes down. Or just ignore it and use vouchers.
Right now the costs are such that people are smarter to wait for the Golden Vendor to sell them gold rings for 150k.
With vouchers at the current rate of maybe 700/voucher, you're looking at not too much over 168k, which is not bad considering there's no RNG.

bmnoble wrote: »

the people who have a main crafter and likely alts maxed out doing daily writs as well, are likely to be the main ones earning writ vouchers, not the people seeking to buy the plating's from them to upgrade their gear.

They'd be foolish to upgrade their gear -- especially in a pricey field like jewelry -- without upgrading their skill first.
In the worst case, get a crafter friend to do it for you.

bmnoble wrote: »

will it lower prices? no

Whether it does or not is irrelevant. By using vouchers, we bypass the Guild Stores entirely. You can still buy from it if you want, or you can do other types of crafts to get vouchers to then supplement your supply. Not necessarily to do writs, but to upgrade jewelry for personal use.

bmnoble wrote: »

all this will do is allow those players interested in doing the new JC, to complete them without having to rely on the guild stores as much.

Well, yes.
I see the Guild Stores as intended to supplement your "normal" sources for all sorts of items. However, because the price is so inflated, it is no longer serving that function reasonably for Jewelry crafting.

So if you let people get some with vouchers, you can effectively cap the cost at a calculated price that isn't too good but definitely not going to make you craft the item at a loss.
It's not intended that they use vouchers to make up the entire materials requirement -- they can just get enough grains to SUPPLEMENT their inventory that they got from other sources.

bmnoble wrote: »

But and this is the most important part, people don't do master writs with the intention of buying their upgrade mats with the vouchers, they use those vouchers to buy stuff of the writ vendors.

Considering that people try to sell voucher stuff all the time and use that as a benchmark for whether a writ is worth doing... I'm not sure this is true.
But even if it were true... nothing's stopping them from using their vouchers to buy voucher stuff.

If they did try to use only vouchers for all the mats, their profit would be comparable to the other crafts. Which is still sort of OK. At least they wouldn't just throwing away writs or sit on them for a long time because they can't get enough materials at a sensible price.
If you were sitting on 300+ vouchers, why not use that and come out ahead with maybe 330? Not so huge a profit that it blows all the other crafts away, but at least there's profit. Rather than feeling like you should hoard your plating and wait for that top-reward writ that might never come.

bmnoble wrote: »

Either those writs would stop appearing in guild stores or their price or the price of the mats would go up to compensate for potential profit.

Not a problem either way.
People who sell writs are looking for profit, not vouchers. If they stopped selling them, did them themselves to get vouchers, and tried to sell the vouchers on the market at a ludicrous price... well, they are already at a terrible price so we're not any worse. Just don't buy with gold.
There are lots of crafts easier and cheaper to get vouchers from than jewelry. Do the writs that you get. You can get your own vouchers and hence supplement your jewelry mats.

And if someone really didn't want to do any crafts but still needed the mats, there's always the Guild Store, which is basically trading gold for time.

You are forgetting that the consequence of using vouchers to buy grains would directly be an increase of the price per voucher.

If you don't farm a bit, at least from time to time, you will have to pay for others time. You can't dodge that.

thermatico

Doesn't sound like a good idea. That would be the easiest conversion of vouchers to gold in the history of Narnia.

Dusk_Coven

thermatico wrote: »

Doesn't sound like a good idea. That would be the easiest conversion of vouchers to gold in the history of Narnia.

Considering those customers would also have the ability to make their own vouchers... what would voucher-bought grains be priced at? Assuming ZOS doesn't make them BoP, which is a further option if it becomes a problem. But hopefully it won't, so people have some flexibility.

disintegr8

I have 2000 vouchers in my inventory - bring it on home!!

Really is just another way to make rich people richer - not really in favor of it.

Dusk_Coven

disintegr8 wrote: »

I have 2000 vouchers in my inventory - bring it on home!!

Really is just another way to make rich people richer - not really in favor of it.

How?
Use vouchers to buy stuff and sell in Guild Stores? That's what people already do.
Use vouchers to buy grains to sell in Guild Stores? People already sell grains there. The market could of course get glutted, bringing down prices. Or people could just use vouchesr to buy the grains they need and bypass the market.

All assuming we don't ruin this for ourselves by messing up the market, forcing ZOS to make voucher-bought grains/plates Bind on Pickup.

If people are so worried about profit-making with this, the calculation could be revised to be 0% profit, making it strictly a supplementary source of purple/gold plating since at that point trying to do a writ with all vouchers would be at best a small loss due to other materials involved.

Even with a small profit margin, opportunities would be few and far between as you'd have to wait for a good-reward writ to get a profit doing it all with writs. The variables with the calculations for voucher cost per grain, as well as writ drop rate, can all be tweaked -- without extensive changes to the jewelry system.
Absolute worst case they can pull the entire system out by taking the stock out of the Golden Vendor.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Or jewelery hireling to keep some mats coming in

Dusk_Coven

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Or jewelery hireling to keep some mats coming in

(1) That would introduce a new variable to the system that isn't easily taken back. Not impossible but if it turned out badly they couldn't really reverse it.
(2) They'd need to be careful with the drop rate because of people with lots of crafter alts. A situation that could get worse in the future if they continue to allow more toon slots.

Not impossible of course and it would certainly be in line with the other crafts.

Banana

Id buy them