c0da Referenced in ESO

khajiitNPC

Interested to hear the opinions of others regarding an out of game Kirkbride fan-fiction appearing in ESO?

Bruccius

Well, it never really appeared, rather, it was giving a nod towards. As Bethesda so often does with Kirkbride's post-Morrowind works. Though granted, they do seem to humor more of his obscure works lately. Unsure if I'm a fan of that, but I'm not the one in charge.

Also, it's not really out of game if it appears ingame, now is it?

khajiitNPC

c0da makes it canon.

Eporem

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Interested to hear the opinions of others regarding an out of game Kirkbride fan-fiction appearing in ESO?

not sure what you mean by this, a story written by a fan of Kirkbride appearing in game as a quest? if it is this, I don't see why not..

VaranisArano

I think Kirkbride would have a bigger influence on TES if he were more consistently coherent. There's a time and place for wild and wacky, but not all the time or we're in the Shivering Isles.

PrayingSeraph

Not a fan of Kirkbride fanfic and very much not a fan of c0da. I get Morrowind was the game he had much influence on, but I've never been a fan of Kirkbride giving so much attention to Dunmer and Vivec. And his hate of Azura

But hey, I do respect his passion of his lore. But I'm thankful most of it is non canon.

khajiitNPC

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

Ihsan997

Just to be clear, is the discussion referring to this?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_37

Benzux

Eh, some of the lore Kirkbride thought up is cool and all, and did help make the TES Universe unique among other fantasy universes. But, most of his work seems to stem from the drug-induced hallucinations of a Star Wars fanboy. Everything he has written since leaving BGS is nothing more than fanfic. Seriously, some of the *** he's written makes so little sense that it's actually a joke.

khajiitNPC

@Ihsan997 yes particularly

"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing”,

The first letter of each word: wwwc0daes or www.c0da.es

khajiitNPC

world without wheel, charting 0 deaths and echoes singing

khajiitNPC

Why do you guys think this was added to the lore? I get if you believe it was nothing more than a nod but for those of you who think it was more deliberate, what purpose does it serve in the context of the sermon?

PrayingSeraph

It's a nod, an easter egg guys. Not lore

ArchMikem

The same guy who wrote that Nirn falls apart in the 5th Era and the planet is nothing but a bunch of clockwork on the interior, and the Dunmer moved their civilization to the Moon?

khajiitNPC

Ya

Eporem

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

when reading about c0da from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2reyef/what_is_c0da_an_answer/

and remembering Lawrence Schick's farewell letter from here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

and also reading a little of the plot:

"C0DA is set in the far distant future of the late Fifth Era, where an apocalyptic event known as Landfall has forced the remaining inhabitants of Nirn to take refuge on the moon Masser. The story centers around the Dunmer noble, Jubal-lun-Sul, who seeks the means to shepherd his people to a safe world, away from Landfall. His actions eventually culminate with the defeat of the Numidium and his marriage to Vivec, making way for the birth of a new universe."

I would say that why Lawrence Schick acknowledged c0da in this 37th Sermon of Vivec is because there is a possibility that this could happen - maybe not all of what was written in the c0da story but certainly travel to the Moon, especially since the quests of Elsweyr touch upon this. As well since Nirn was created based on the destruction of other worlds, who is to say that this world would not come to the same dilema.

casparian

ITT: people who have no idea what c0da is about, and people who just want to trigger Kirkbride fans. Great bait!

Benzux

Eporem wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

when reading about c0da from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2reyef/what_is_c0da_an_answer/

and remembering Lawrence Schick's farewell letter from here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

and also reading a little of the plot:

"C0DA is set in the far distant future of the late Fifth Era, where an apocalyptic event known as Landfall has forced the remaining inhabitants of Nirn to take refuge on the moon Masser. The story centers around the Dunmer noble, Jubal-lun-Sul, who seeks the means to shepherd his people to a safe world, away from Landfall. His actions eventually culminate with the defeat of the Numidium and his marriage to Vivec, making way for the birth of a new universe."

I would say that why Lawrence Schick acknowledged c0da in this 37th Sermon of Vivec is because there is a possibility that this could happen - maybe not all of what was written in the c0da story but certainly travel to the Moon, especially since the quests of Elsweyr touch upon this. As well since Nirn was created based on the destruction of other worlds, who is to say that this world would not come to the same dilema.

Nirn's destruction is inevitable - The Last Dragonborn simply delayed it during the events of Skyrim. Though, unless this "landfall" is caused by Alduin returning once again, I don't see it happening. Nor do I see the possibility of mortals living through such an event, since Alduin would devour all of Mundus - which includes the Moons. Even dialogue with Paarthurnax and Arngeir suggests the idea that Alduin will eventually return to destroy the world, so we can be pretty sure it's going to happen.

PrayingSeraph

Eporem wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

when reading about c0da from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2reyef/what_is_c0da_an_answer/

and remembering Lawrence Schick's farewell letter from here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

and also reading a little of the plot:

"C0DA is set in the far distant future of the late Fifth Era, where an apocalyptic event known as Landfall has forced the remaining inhabitants of Nirn to take refuge on the moon Masser. The story centers around the Dunmer noble, Jubal-lun-Sul, who seeks the means to shepherd his people to a safe world, away from Landfall. His actions eventually culminate with the defeat of the Numidium and his marriage to Vivec, making way for the birth of a new universe."

I would say that why Lawrence Schick acknowledged c0da in this 37th Sermon of Vivec is because there is a possibility that this could happen - maybe not all of what was written in the c0da story but certainly travel to the Moon, especially since the quests of Elsweyr touch upon this. As well since Nirn was created based on the destruction of other worlds, who is to say that this world would not come to the same dilema.

Kirkbride had a very large impact on TES III Morrowind. It would make sense to have a small easter egg towards Kirkbride in the ESO Morrowind chapter. It's a nod, an easter egg, not a statement of future plot intent. Yes, the events of c0da could theoretically happen, but there's nothing to suggest they will, anymore than any other obscure theory or fanfic. Not saying it's impossible, I just dont think it's likely. I think Bethesda/ZOS are aware how controversial Kirkbride is. Just mentioning his name gets fans riled up haha

And it was mentioned by the comment above, I think it's unlikely anyone in Mundus will survive Alduin's return. Of course I dount we'll ever see the end times of TES, due to Bethesda keeping everything intact so they can create more games. So I doubt we'll ever know for sure wbat will happen hahaha

Eporem

Benzux wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

when reading about c0da from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2reyef/what_is_c0da_an_answer/

and remembering Lawrence Schick's farewell letter from here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

and also reading a little of the plot:

"C0DA is set in the far distant future of the late Fifth Era, where an apocalyptic event known as Landfall has forced the remaining inhabitants of Nirn to take refuge on the moon Masser. The story centers around the Dunmer noble, Jubal-lun-Sul, who seeks the means to shepherd his people to a safe world, away from Landfall. His actions eventually culminate with the defeat of the Numidium and his marriage to Vivec, making way for the birth of a new universe."

I would say that why Lawrence Schick acknowledged c0da in this 37th Sermon of Vivec is because there is a possibility that this could happen - maybe not all of what was written in the c0da story but certainly travel to the Moon, especially since the quests of Elsweyr touch upon this. As well since Nirn was created based on the destruction of other worlds, who is to say that this world would not come to the same dilema.

Nirn's destruction is inevitable - The Last Dragonborn simply delayed it during the events of Skyrim. Though, unless this "landfall" is caused by Alduin returning once again, I don't see it happening. Nor do I see the possibility of mortals living through such an event, since Alduin would devour all of Mundus - which includes the Moons. Even dialogue with Paarthurnax and Arngeir suggests the idea that Alduin will eventually return to destroy the world, so we can be pretty sure it's going to happen.

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Eporem I’m referencing Schick’s acknowledgement of c0da in the 37th Sermon of Vivec.

when reading about c0da from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2reyef/what_is_c0da_an_answer/

and remembering Lawrence Schick's farewell letter from here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

and also reading a little of the plot:

"C0DA is set in the far distant future of the late Fifth Era, where an apocalyptic event known as Landfall has forced the remaining inhabitants of Nirn to take refuge on the moon Masser. The story centers around the Dunmer noble, Jubal-lun-Sul, who seeks the means to shepherd his people to a safe world, away from Landfall. His actions eventually culminate with the defeat of the Numidium and his marriage to Vivec, making way for the birth of a new universe."

I would say that why Lawrence Schick acknowledged c0da in this 37th Sermon of Vivec is because there is a possibility that this could happen - maybe not all of what was written in the c0da story but certainly travel to the Moon, especially since the quests of Elsweyr touch upon this. As well since Nirn was created based on the destruction of other worlds, who is to say that this world would not come to the same dilema.

Kirkbride had a very large impact on TES III Morrowind. It would make sense to have a small easter egg towards Kirkbride in the ESO Morrowind chapter. It's a nod, an easter egg, not a statement of future plot intent. Yes, the events of c0da could theoretically happen, but there's nothing to suggest they will, anymore than any other obscure theory or fanfic. Not saying it's impossible, I just dont think it's likely. I think Bethesda/ZOS are aware how controversial Kirkbride is. Just mentioning his name gets fans riled up haha

And it was mentioned by the comment above, I think it's unlikely anyone in Mundus will survive Alduin's return. Of course I dount we'll ever see the end times of TES, due to Bethesda keeping everything intact so they can create more games. So I doubt we'll ever know for sure wbat will happen hahaha

Could Clockwork City have been Nirn in the story since it is sometimes referred to as the 2nd Nirn - did Sotha Sil recreate a moon as well - would this city being out of time and space have survived Alduin's return .. ... just thoughts of possibilities ....

khajiitNPC

Not bait. I think there is a very specific reason this appears in the lore.

I get people will say Easter egg or nod to Kirkbride because they believe Occam’s razor is the best scalpel.

Personally I think it cuts deeper than that. Combined with the message Schick left us it confirms the lore is in our marrow and solidified ‘open source mythology’. Which I know the lore purists cringe at it. But I guess the bigger question is do they even grasp what the 36 Sermons are about?

I have a friend who has a waifu in his head canon. I accepted it. I didn’t like it because her name was waifu. But I knew, c0da makes it canon.

I wonder why it’s so hard to accept. Especially in ESO where we have multiple Vestiges, the last quest of the psijic skill line, different instances, choices for our “character”. So many of the lore purists try so hard to work contrary to what’s going on. Dragonbreaks aren’t just convenient ways to retcon. CHIM is real!

But even the simplest thing as a different instant will be glossed over as game mechanic. It’s like...the truth is just beating them over the head with it, and they are like but...but...the franchise.

Bruccius

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not bait. I think there is a very specific reason this appears in the lore.

I get people will say Easter egg or nod to Kirkbride because they believe Occam’s razor is the best scalpel.

Personally I think it cuts deeper than that. Combined with the message Schick left us it confirms the lore is in our marrow and solidified ‘open source mythology’. Which I know the lore purists cringe at it. But I guess the bigger question is do they even grasp what the 36 Sermons are about?

I have a friend who has a waifu in his head canon. I accepted it. I didn’t like it because her name was waifu. But I knew, c0da makes it canon.

I wonder why it’s so hard to accept. Especially in ESO where we have multiple Vestiges, the last quest of the psijic skill line, different instances, choices for our “character”. So many of the lore purists try so hard to work contrary to what’s going on. Dragonbreaks aren’t just convenient ways to retcon. CHIM is real!

But even the simplest thing as a different instant will be glossed over as game mechanic. It’s like...the truth is just beating them over the head with it, and they are like but...but...the franchise.

C0da doesn't make anything canon though. It goes against the very purpose of the word ''canon''.

Your argument that ''everyone plays differently, thus everyone's playstyle is canon'' is nice, but not how it works. How your character plays is your choice, your ''story'' is fanon, just as the story of my Vestige, or that of any other player in the game.

khajiitNPC

@Bruccius

But the very notion of dragon breaks, parallel universes, kalpas, warps, red moments, lyg; seem to all lend to a narrative that is decided by the “player” of the game. Where you prefer franchised narrative there is a whole community beyond that contributing to the lore. I’m fine with the label fanon and fanfic. In my headspace they can exist together as well as apart.

PrayingSeraph

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Bruccius

But the very notion of dragon breaks, parallel universes, kalpas, warps, red moments, lyg; seem to all lend to a narrative that is decided by the “player” of the game. Where you prefer franchised narrative there is a whole community beyond that contributing to the lore. I’m fine with the label fanon and fanfic. In my headspace they can exist together as well as apart.

Bethesda and ZOS support the notion of canon. Hence them in the past saying Kirkbride's contributions outside the games arent canon, as well as stating that the TES novels are canon.

You can have as much "headcanon" as you want, but it's objectively false to say there is no canon or that Kirkbride's post-games writing are canon. Landfall doesnt happen, nirn inhabitants dont go to the moon and Kirkbride's Dunmer and Vivec fetish doesnt spawn a new universe. These dont happen in thebcanon, that's a fact.

Shick's final letter was just the typical RPG "create your story" PR. They all say it, Bethesda, Bioware, you name it. He doesnt dismiss the notion of canon.

I don't mean this in a rude way, but I think you are looking to far into it.

VaranisArano

khajiitNPC wrote: »

But the very notion of dragon breaks, parallel universes, kalpas, warps, red moments, lyg; seem to all lend to a narrative that is decided by the “player” of the game. Where you prefer franchised narrative there is a whole community beyond that contributing to the lore. I’m fine with the label fanon and fanfic. In my headspace they can exist together as well as apart.

In my opinion, the Dragonbreak as used in the games is the very opposite of a narrative decided by the players.

In Daggerfall, the Warp in the West negates a player choice. In the game, you decide who "wins" by giving them the totem and the Mantella and who are the rest of the losers are, and how they lose. You can only give it to one person. But with the Dragonbreak, ALL of the futures happen. Your choice? Didnt matter. The future of Iliac Bay is what Bethesda says it is, and they said the Dragon broke and all the choices happened, even the ones you didnt make.

That's not a narrative created by a player. That's a narrative device being used to control the story how the Writers/Devs want it to go.

khajiitNPC

Well of course the need for Franchise to have established canon is a given. I feel ya guys. I’m just so surprised how much has changed regarding ideologies of lore. Not to be rude but looks like the NPCs won.

Bruccius

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Well of course the need for Franchise to have established canon is a given. I feel ya guys. I’m just so surprised how much has changed regarding ideologies of lore. Not to be rude but looks like the NPCs won.

Nah, the Kirkbride brigade hasn't won. 't least not yet.

Nothing has changed regarding ideologies of lore, or rather, they have, with people now considering unofficial material to be totally fact. Back in the day, people would create theories, or accept theories of others, but wouldn't use said theories as cold hard evidence. That is what's changed.

Turelus

casparian wrote: »

ITT: people who have no idea what c0da is about, and people who just want to trigger Kirkbride fans. Great bait!

Indeed. I have no idea what's going on, but it's fun to read.

Apparently I need a "C0da is canon" t-shirt for ESO Tavern this year, seems it would make some fun conversations.

Eporem

Canon seems to me the end of speculation and mystery - something already established and unchangeable - which I do think is very much needed, especially in the world of Nirn where future events have already been written of. I don’t think Lawrence Schick was saying there is no such thing as Canon in the Elder Scrolls - what I understood him as saying was of the things in Elder Scrolls that have not been established as Canon as yet, which I think are many things still, the lore writers, both past and present have gotten inspiration through the comments, speculations theories and perspectives of the player base, from this ‘head canon’ of the player base, this response to their writings.
........

I look back now on what I wrote and others wrote on Lawrence Schick's acknowledgment of C0da in the 37th sermon, and yes I do think it is a 'nod' to a past writer of the Elder Scrolls, while still thinking it could contain inspiration for perhaps the future of Clockwork City:) in case this future has not been written of as yet by the lore writers of the Elder Scrolls.

Ogou

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Bruccius

But the very notion of dragon breaks, parallel universes, kalpas, warps, red moments, lyg; seem to all lend to a narrative that is decided by the “player” of the game. Where you prefer franchised narrative there is a whole community beyond that contributing to the lore. I’m fine with the label fanon and fanfic. In my headspace they can exist together as well as apart.

None of those actually point to players deciding the narrative though.
You also seem to make the assumption that understanding that there is a "canon" or some unbendable truths in the lore mean that you can't contribute to the lore anymore which is totally wrong.

Bruccius

Ogou wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Bruccius

But the very notion of dragon breaks, parallel universes, kalpas, warps, red moments, lyg; seem to all lend to a narrative that is decided by the “player” of the game. Where you prefer franchised narrative there is a whole community beyond that contributing to the lore. I’m fine with the label fanon and fanfic. In my headspace they can exist together as well as apart.

None of those actually point to players deciding the narrative though.
You also seem to make the assumption that understanding that there is a "canon" or some unbendable truths in the lore mean that you can't contribute to the lore anymore which is totally wrong.

Care to elaborate?