What if faction locks lasted only X hours?

InvictusApollo

Give me your predictions of what would happen if faction locks were changed so that you could enter campaign with a character of another alliance every X hours. I'm curious for your opinions.

Mr_Walker

Many, many tears on the forum.

VaranisArano

You'd still have people complaining about not being able to play with their friends. You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards. You'd still have people swapping faction to troll - they'd just be able to do it less often.

It doesn't actually stop the things that faction lock is supposed to stop and it doesnt fix the things that removing faction locks are supposed to fix, all for the benefit of the players who are actually playing PVP in Cyrodiil or trying to win the campaigns.

The only people this suggestion unquestionably benefits are the players who only went into Cyrodiil long enough to get their Tier 1 rewards for the transmute stones on every character and then left for the rest of the month.

Derra

I´d be all up for a 3 day period.

Would essentially achieve the same thing as 30 days - make literal factionhopping impossible.
Would also allow the 30 day main campaigns to be rebalanced over it´s course a couple of times.
Would allow players to play all their characters in a game where there´s only one active pvp campaign left for each gamemode.

Derra

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

VaranisArano

Derra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

I wasn't entirely clear there, since I was thinking more of the people who play Cyrodiil long enough to get 25k AP and the Tier 1 transmute stones and then leave for the rest of the month. Bumping that reward up to Tier 3 would have improved that from my perspective, and meant that players actually had to PVP for some length of time. The only other reward worth getting was the jewelry, as the gold is negligible.

As for the players who actually played multifaction PVP, that's not my cup of tea, but I don't mind that they did it. I didnt ask for faction locks, but since I actually play to win the campaign, I'm not going to complain that we have a chance to play with them again.

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day. We get plenty of good fights in a nightly basis without faction swapping. And its not like "good fights" was the only reason players faction swapped, or that faction swapping never caused problems for the campaigns, so let's not pretend that we're only talking about pure-hearted defenders of the underdogs here.

I don't think that the playstyle of "IDGAF about objectives, just "good fights"" is very beneficial for Cyrodiil as an AvAvA zone in the long term, and I'm quite interested to see if faction locks change that for the better or if they turn out the same way as the not very feasible CP BGs.

And if they don't work out? *shrug* I'll keep on doing my faction loyal thing for EP, whatever anyone else does. Like I've been doing for the last two or so years.

Joy_Division

VaranisArano wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day. We get plenty of good fights in a nightly basis without faction swapping. And its not like "good fights" was the only reason players faction swapped, or that faction swapping never caused problems for the campaigns, so let's not pretend that we're only talking about pure-hearted defenders of the underdogs here.

I don't think that the playstyle of "IDGAF about objectives, just "good fights"" is very beneficial for Cyrodiil as an AvAvA zone in the long term, and I'm quite interested to see if faction locks change that for the better or if they turn out the same way as the not very feasible CP BGs.

And if they don't work out? *shrug* I'll keep on doing my faction loyal thing for EP, whatever anyone else does. Like I've been doing for the last two or so years.

And yet you take players seriously who'll grind an entire month of their lives on a campaign in which, even if they happen to win, get little more than virtual peanuts? What's so serious about that?. Especially considering even a hardcore player who logs in every single night has little tangible impact as the majority of scoring that decides who wins happens when they are not online and via very unserious mechanics such as allowing nightcapping to count the same as pop locked prime time. Maybe if ZOS took their PvP campaigns a little more seriously, so would I?

As ZOS certainly isn;t providing us with any serious reason to actually participate in an AvAvA format, we all have to get our own abstract fulfillment for cyrodiil. Just because we're not eager to be part of a mob of 30 to cap a resource guarded by 2 for Queen Aryenn doesn't mean we don;t take our time PvPing seriously.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I would rather a soft lock. Let me earn rewards and scoreboard place on one faction only but still play and earn ap on other factions.

Derra

VaranisArano wrote: »

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day.

I and some others i know simply played the weakest faction if there was any significantly weaker than the others.

VaranisArano

Joy_Division wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day. We get plenty of good fights in a nightly basis without faction swapping. And its not like "good fights" was the only reason players faction swapped, or that faction swapping never caused problems for the campaigns, so let's not pretend that we're only talking about pure-hearted defenders of the underdogs here.

I don't think that the playstyle of "IDGAF about objectives, just "good fights"" is very beneficial for Cyrodiil as an AvAvA zone in the long term, and I'm quite interested to see if faction locks change that for the better or if they turn out the same way as the not very feasible CP BGs.

And if they don't work out? *shrug* I'll keep on doing my faction loyal thing for EP, whatever anyone else does. Like I've been doing for the last two or so years.

And yet you take players seriously who'll grind an entire month of their lives on a campaign in which, even if they happen to win, get little more than virtual peanuts? What's so serious about that?. Especially considering even a hardcore player who logs in every single night has little tangible impact as the majority of scoring that decides who wins happens when they are not online and via very unserious mechanics such as allowing nightcapping to count the same as pop locked prime time. Maybe if ZOS took their PvP campaigns a little more seriously, so would I?

As ZOS certainly isn;t providing us with any serious reason to actually participate in an AvAvA format, we all have to get our own abstract fulfillment for cyrodiil. Just because we're not eager to be part of a mob of 30 to cap a resource guarded by 2 for Queen Aryenn doesn't mean we don;t take our time PvPing seriously.

Sure. Everyone enjoys what they enjoy. I don't mean to belittle that.

Just so my position is upfront and obvious, because I'm apparently doing a horrible job of being clear here: I really enjoy faction loyal gameplay for the campaign win, no matter the minor rewards. Others enjoy very different styles and thats 100% fine by me. I wasnt asking for faction locks before we got them, and I'm not entirely sure how well they'll work out long term.

Now, let me try to clarify what I mean by taking someone "seriously" since apparently I cant clearly express myself on this thread to save my life...

As a faction loyal player who's playing for the campaign win - no matter how little tangible rewards I get for that - I don't regard the multifaction players I see playing all sides as reliable members of my team when they are very "here today, on the other side tomorrow". I don't listen to them in zone chat, and I chuckle whenever I see that today they've decided to play EP. They might be super serious experienced PVPers, sure, and many of them are. But I don't ever rely on them the way I listen to or rely on the players I see playing for EP night after night, campaign after campaign. Experience has shown me that while they might be great PVPers, they simply are not reliable team members when it comes to trying to win the campaign which is how I enjoy playing Cyrodiil.

So its not that I disrespect their player vs player fighting chops. Many are quite good, at least the ones who play underdog rather than bandwagoning. There's lot of variety in multifaction players, so for the sake of clarity, I'll assume I'm talking about experienced PVPers who regularly did multifaction play, not the players just there for the Tier 1 rewards.

Given that I choose to fight AvAvA, faction loyal, and for the campaign win...I do not regard multifaction players as reliable and dependable allies, no matter which way they go. The players I know to be reliable and dependable are the players who put the time and effort in to fight for their faction consistantly.

So if "my faction right or wrong" is not your thing, that's fine with me! You do you. Have fun your way!

But please don't be offended that I find the vast majority of multifaction players to be unreliable allies when it comes to playing AvAvA for the campaign win. I really don't understand why that seems to be a problem here, since players who want the benefit of swapping sides are obviously giving up the reputation that comes with being dedicated to one side or the other. Can't really have both...

Sorry, I hope that makes sense. Apparently I can't express what I actually mean very well on this thread, so I might just take a break and drink more coffee. I wasn't even trying to start this faction loyal vs multifaction argument, just trying to point out that the OP's solution doesnt go far enough either way, and apparently I'm failing at that and stumbling right into the faction loyal vs multifaction argument anyway.

So hopefully I don't start a whole new argument, and you all have a great day!

Mr_Walker

VaranisArano wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day. We get plenty of good fights in a nightly basis without faction swapping. And its not like "good fights" was the only reason players faction swapped, or that faction swapping never caused problems for the campaigns, so let's not pretend that we're only talking about pure-hearted defenders of the underdogs here.

I don't think that the playstyle of "IDGAF about objectives, just "good fights"" is very beneficial for Cyrodiil as an AvAvA zone in the long term, and I'm quite interested to see if faction locks change that for the better or if they turn out the same way as the not very feasible CP BGs.

And if they don't work out? *shrug* I'll keep on doing my faction loyal thing for EP, whatever anyone else does. Like I've been doing for the last two or so years.

And yet you take players seriously who'll grind an entire month of their lives on a campaign in which, even if they happen to win, get little more than virtual peanuts? What's so serious about that?. Especially considering even a hardcore player who logs in every single night has little tangible impact as the majority of scoring that decides who wins happens when they are not online and via very unserious mechanics such as allowing nightcapping to count the same as pop locked prime time. Maybe if ZOS took their PvP campaigns a little more seriously, so would I?

As ZOS certainly isn;t providing us with any serious reason to actually participate in an AvAvA format, we all have to get our own abstract fulfillment for cyrodiil. Just because we're not eager to be part of a mob of 30 to cap a resource guarded by 2 for Queen Aryenn doesn't mean we don;t take our time PvPing seriously.

Sure. Everyone enjoys what they enjoy. I don't mean to belittle that.

Just so my position is upfront and obvious, because I'm apparently doing a horrible job of being clear here: I really enjoy faction loyal gameplay for the campaign win, no matter the minor rewards. Others enjoy very different styles and thats 100% fine by me. I wasnt asking for faction locks before we got them, and I'm not entirely sure how well they'll work out long term.

Now, let me try to clarify what I mean by taking someone "seriously" since apparently I cant clearly express myself on this thread to save my life...

As a faction loyal player who's playing for the campaign win - no matter how little tangible rewards I get for that - I don't regard the multifaction players I see playing all sides as reliable members of my team when they are very "here today, on the other side tomorrow". I don't listen to them in zone chat, and I chuckle whenever I see that today they've decided to play EP. They might be super serious experienced PVPers, sure, and many of them are. But I don't ever rely on them the way I listen to or rely on the players I see playing for EP night after night, campaign after campaign. Experience has shown me that while they might be great PVPers, they simply are not reliable team members when it comes to trying to win the campaign which is how I enjoy playing Cyrodiil.

So its not that I disrespect their player vs player fighting chops. Many are quite good, at least the ones who play underdog rather than bandwagoning. There's lot of variety in multifaction players, so for the sake of clarity, I'll assume I'm talking about experienced PVPers who regularly did multifaction play, not the players just there for the Tier 1 rewards.

Given that I choose to fight AvAvA, faction loyal, and for the campaign win...I do not regard multifaction players as reliable and dependable allies, no matter which way they go. The players I know to be reliable and dependable are the players who put the time and effort in to fight for their faction consistantly.

So if "my faction right or wrong" is not your thing, that's fine with me! You do you. Have fun your way!

But please don't be offended that I find the vast majority of multifaction players to be unreliable allies when it comes to playing AvAvA for the campaign win. I really don't understand why that seems to be a problem here, since players who want the benefit of swapping sides are obviously giving up the reputation that comes with being dedicated to one side or the other. Can't really have both...

Sorry, I hope that makes sense. Apparently I can't express what I actually mean very well on this thread, so I might just take a break and drink more coffee. I wasn't even trying to start this faction loyal vs multifaction argument, just trying to point out that the OP's solution doesnt go far enough either way, and apparently I'm failing at that and stumbling right into the faction loyal vs multifaction argument anyway.

So hopefully I don't start a whole new argument, and you all have a great day!

That's almost meaningless. I used to do my absolute best no matter which faction I played for. How much more "reliable" do you want?

VaranisArano

Mr_Walker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You'd still have people playing every faction just to milk the campaign rewards.

And why the hell should it be problematic when someone with 4 ad 4 ep and 4 dc is able to get the same amount of campaign rewards as someone with 12 ep chars?
The game actively encouraged people to level on multiple factions to balance out pvp since one tamriel. The person who actively played on underpopulated factions did play more to the devs intentions and for the good of the game over the past two years than the self proclaimed faction loyalist.
Why do you feel they should be punished for that now?

That being said, I find it very hard to take multifaction players seriously. Like, its fine if you "want good fights", but I'm laughing when those players show up next to me defending an objective when my raid killed them on AD or DC the other day. We get plenty of good fights in a nightly basis without faction swapping. And its not like "good fights" was the only reason players faction swapped, or that faction swapping never caused problems for the campaigns, so let's not pretend that we're only talking about pure-hearted defenders of the underdogs here.

I don't think that the playstyle of "IDGAF about objectives, just "good fights"" is very beneficial for Cyrodiil as an AvAvA zone in the long term, and I'm quite interested to see if faction locks change that for the better or if they turn out the same way as the not very feasible CP BGs.

And if they don't work out? *shrug* I'll keep on doing my faction loyal thing for EP, whatever anyone else does. Like I've been doing for the last two or so years.

And yet you take players seriously who'll grind an entire month of their lives on a campaign in which, even if they happen to win, get little more than virtual peanuts? What's so serious about that?. Especially considering even a hardcore player who logs in every single night has little tangible impact as the majority of scoring that decides who wins happens when they are not online and via very unserious mechanics such as allowing nightcapping to count the same as pop locked prime time. Maybe if ZOS took their PvP campaigns a little more seriously, so would I?

As ZOS certainly isn;t providing us with any serious reason to actually participate in an AvAvA format, we all have to get our own abstract fulfillment for cyrodiil. Just because we're not eager to be part of a mob of 30 to cap a resource guarded by 2 for Queen Aryenn doesn't mean we don;t take our time PvPing seriously.

Sure. Everyone enjoys what they enjoy. I don't mean to belittle that.

Just so my position is upfront and obvious, because I'm apparently doing a horrible job of being clear here: I really enjoy faction loyal gameplay for the campaign win, no matter the minor rewards. Others enjoy very different styles and thats 100% fine by me. I wasnt asking for faction locks before we got them, and I'm not entirely sure how well they'll work out long term.

Now, let me try to clarify what I mean by taking someone "seriously" since apparently I cant clearly express myself on this thread to save my life...

As a faction loyal player who's playing for the campaign win - no matter how little tangible rewards I get for that - I don't regard the multifaction players I see playing all sides as reliable members of my team when they are very "here today, on the other side tomorrow". I don't listen to them in zone chat, and I chuckle whenever I see that today they've decided to play EP. They might be super serious experienced PVPers, sure, and many of them are. But I don't ever rely on them the way I listen to or rely on the players I see playing for EP night after night, campaign after campaign. Experience has shown me that while they might be great PVPers, they simply are not reliable team members when it comes to trying to win the campaign which is how I enjoy playing Cyrodiil.

So its not that I disrespect their player vs player fighting chops. Many are quite good, at least the ones who play underdog rather than bandwagoning. There's lot of variety in multifaction players, so for the sake of clarity, I'll assume I'm talking about experienced PVPers who regularly did multifaction play, not the players just there for the Tier 1 rewards.

Given that I choose to fight AvAvA, faction loyal, and for the campaign win...I do not regard multifaction players as reliable and dependable allies, no matter which way they go. The players I know to be reliable and dependable are the players who put the time and effort in to fight for their faction consistantly.

So if "my faction right or wrong" is not your thing, that's fine with me! You do you. Have fun your way!

But please don't be offended that I find the vast majority of multifaction players to be unreliable allies when it comes to playing AvAvA for the campaign win. I really don't understand why that seems to be a problem here, since players who want the benefit of swapping sides are obviously giving up the reputation that comes with being dedicated to one side or the other. Can't really have both...

Sorry, I hope that makes sense. Apparently I can't express what I actually mean very well on this thread, so I might just take a break and drink more coffee. I wasn't even trying to start this faction loyal vs multifaction argument, just trying to point out that the OP's solution doesnt go far enough either way, and apparently I'm failing at that and stumbling right into the faction loyal vs multifaction argument anyway.

So hopefully I don't start a whole new argument, and you all have a great day!

That's almost meaningless. I used to do my absolute best no matter which faction I played for. How much more "reliable" do you want?

I have a much more stringent definition of "reliable" than you do. Not that yours is wrong, exactly, but its not MY definition.

See, I play to win the campaigns for EP and have since Haderus, Trueflame, and the whole run of PC/NA Vivec. My reliable teammates are the players who play to win the campaign for EP, day after day, campaign after campaign. Those are the players I trust to consistently fight for the faction win and who I listen to in zone chat and who I'm happy to see when we fight alongside each other at objectives.

Multifaction players don't fight to win for EP, night after night, campaign after campaign.That's sort of the whole point of being a multifaction player, right? Having the freedom to play for whatever faction you want, whenever you want?


The way I see it, multifaction players get the freedom to play for any faction, but it comes at the expense of building up a reputation as a player loyal to a particular faction who helps the faction win time and again.

But then if you don't care about playing for a single faction, why on earth would you care that you don't have the same reputation with faction loyal players as a player who's been consistently playing for a single faction, helping them win campaign after campaign?

Mr_Walker

VaranisArano wrote: »

But then if you don't care about playing for a single faction, why on earth would you care that you don't have the same reputation with faction loyal players as a player who's been consistently playing for a single faction, helping them win campaign after campaign?

Huh? I don't. With age comes apathy, and right at the bottom of my list of "important things to worry about" is what some random muppet in a game thinks of me.

I'm just a reliable player. I will reliably fight like hell. I will reliably place down 4-5 siege/counter siege in addition to my own for anyone to use. I will reliably try to push the map. You know if you see me I’m doing my best.

I’m probably better for whatever faction I’m playing in than half the leeching sacks of crap in it.

VaranisArano

Mr_Walker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But then if you don't care about playing for a single faction, why on earth would you care that you don't have the same reputation with faction loyal players as a player who's been consistently playing for a single faction, helping them win campaign after campaign?

Huh? I don't. With age comes apathy, and right at the bottom of my list of "important things to worry about" is what some random muppet in a game thinks of me.

I'm just a reliable player. I will reliably fight like hell. I will reliably place down 4-5 siege/counter siege in addition to my own for anyone to use. I will reliably try to push the map. You know if you see me I’m doing my best.

I’m probably better for whatever faction I’m playing in than half the leeching sacks of crap in it.

You might indeed be better...while you are playing for that faction.

And then you turn around and fight for the other factions.

I'm faction loyal. I can't count on you for any longer than you decide to play for my faction. You'll be fighting against me soon enough. So if I'm going to give kudos for effort in Cyrodiil, its going to go to the people who fight like hell for my faction ALL the time. Not to people who fight like hell for us some of the time and then fight like hell against us whenever they feel like. You might be the best PVPer in Cyrodiil, but you arent going to be someone I rely on to bring EP to victory.

This shouldnt be that hard to figure out...

But since you don't care about my kudos, and I'm worried I'm derailing the thread, I'm not even sure why we're having this conversation anymore.

So I'll bow out. Sorry if I offended you. Have a great day!

Kartalin

I think a limited time lock would make neither side happy, though I appreciate the attempt to compromise.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I would rather a soft lock. Let me earn rewards and scoreboard place on one faction only but still play and earn ap on other factions.

Agreed.

Ranger209

In my mind there need to be set teams. This is exactly what faction locking does, establish the teams. Anything short of that and there are no real teams in AvAvA.

Derra

Kartalin wrote: »

I think a limited time lock would make neither side happy, though I appreciate the attempt to compromise.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I would rather a soft lock. Let me earn rewards and scoreboard place on one faction only but still play and earn ap on other factions.

Agreed.

Heavily disagree with that approach though.
End of campaign rewards are one of the only interesting reward systems the game has - especially for people that like to test a lot of builds outside of pts environments.

Kartalin

What if for each campaign you chose which faction all of your characters would fight for, just do away with all factions outside of cyrodiil. I guess they wouldn't be able to sell any race any alliance anymore though. But as it is I have 3 magplars, 3 stamblades, 2 stamdens, and 2 magdks on the various factions. Would be awesome to not have to level up redundant characters.

idk

It would seem logical you either have faction lock for the duration of the campaign or not at all.

As it is we can change it iirc but lose campaign bonus and standing when we do. So what OP suggests is basically what we already have.

Mr_Walker

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm faction loyal.

My characters are faction loyal. I have the mental agility to differentiate between the 2 scenarios. I'm also not into the creepy LARP thing.

Derra

Kartalin wrote: »

What if for each campaign you chose which faction all of your characters would fight for, just do away with all factions outside of cyrodiil. I guess they wouldn't be able to sell any race any alliance anymore though. But as it is I have 3 magplars, 3 stamblades, 2 stamdens, and 2 magdks on the various factions. Would be awesome to not have to level up redundant characters.

This is what i´d prefer aswell.

Also they could add increasing end of campaign rewards the longer you stay with a faction to encourage faction loyalty.