TANKS

SillyGT

There is an astronomical problem in cyrodiil on PS4. Honestly has to be like 60% of cyrodiil is all block tanks that sit on flags. Why even come to pvp if you don’t want to player vs. player. And you can’t just simply ignore them because they always harass you until more people show up. This is a big issue that has been progressively getting worse and worse since thieves guild. It’s not a new problem. Zos fix PvP please, no one dies anymore.

Blinkin8r

Yeah this used to be a huge problem after morrowind and has recently resurfaced. But rest assured no one who makes a block tank is sexually active so when this generation dies out we won't see them around anymore. Build your ult on them and risk getting stuck in combat until the day you die or ignore them. Nothing else you can do.

Durham

Two things need to happen.

Nerf Block and Bash reduction glyphs
or
Eliminate blocking cost reduction by 20% or 30% in PVP

These right click holding guys are getting out of hand. None are respected and they deserve no credit for just holding right click. These guys have issues killing pretty much anyone unless they are using bridge to pull people off to the slaughter fish. Almost all of these guys deserve a t-bag just like your ball group players that destroy server performance.

bulbousb16_ESO

Just as there should be damage caps, there should also be resistance caps.

IxSTALKERxI

You know it's bad when instead of theory crafting how to wipe a zerg, you are theory crafting how to kill a single player with a group of people.

Does that make me a zergling and the tanks 1vX pro's?

Should I make a tank to so we can /lute to each other? Maybe we can dance around tree's holding hands.

Veinblood1965

Your welcome.

Oh sorry thought you said THANKS not TANKS.

Spartabunny08

You're lucky they've been nerfing tanks into the ground since morrowind... It used to take your zerg to kill me now just half. I have a tank in every class because it's fun. No issues killing anyone. Actually killed emp on DK tank. But if not feeling like tanking I've got my 6200 wpn dmg nightblade that will fix anyone in my path. Just because you can't kill tanks doesn't mean others can't. Maybe a little l2p here. ZOS has already helped you all enough if you can't kill the tanks now well get a nightblade, bleed them and fear them... Done.

bulbousb16_ESO

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

It used to take your zerg to kill me now just half. I have a tank in every class because it's fun.

You have to admit, something is unbalanced when one player can stack resistances and health so high that it takes "just half" a zerg to defeat them. And then the tanks perceives that they are skilled. It would make sense if you were playing a giant, or a dragon, or one of those colossal bipeds you see in LOTR, but you're not. You're the same as everyone else, with outrageous stacking.

Really, these tanks are exactly what they claim zerglings are - the low-skilled bottom-feeders.

Spartabunny08

It's only 30 35000 health. But here's the thing since all the changes, yeah I could tank zergs before but after and since summerset buffed light attack spam and now the bleed enchant meta, my tank can be dropped by 2 people. 1 bleed build on a nightblade with good damage plus one other player will always chop my tank down. It sucks as a tank anymore. That's why I made my nightblade bleed build orc with 6200 wpn damage. I haven't had any problems with tanks and also because I have played them so extensively I know how to beat them. No bleeds though and my tank is a serious problem for enemies. There are resistance caps, 33000 soft cap and you stack up extra only if you're trying to mitigate minor and major breech and fracture. Any more than that is a waste of resources that could be better utilized somewhere else. I do see your perspective but like even before they've nerfed tanks over and over again they were very much still killable it just seemed no one was familiar all that much with like petrify, fear, bleeds, oblivion damage, hell siege the tank down. Most are vamp for damage reductions, cold fire is a *** lol. Toxic Nebula, don't know if you're familiar, feels the same way you do and even made YouTube videos to complain about it with my tank, he choose the cold fire option lol. One on one not even a emp is bringing my tank down. I like distracting, when players can't kill my tank, more come to try and now my scroll runner gets to make it to turn it in. Stuff like that. Honestly I main a healer now and am just as tanky as ever. If anything they've just made me stronger because now I've adapted and a straight up tank just isn't as viable as a 40000 resistance 4000 spell dmg healer... Now my group of three and four take on 8 and 12. So it's more like musical chairs... I would say learn the tanks weaknesses and dropping them will be no problem.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Use the same solution I did on XBox. Build a toon with a ridiculous Radiant Oppression number. Then when you see 14 of your teammates smashing on one guy going round a tree, hit 1 button and collect your AP. Radiant is the key to stopping these guys. It’s just that like 1% of people who used to use it still do.

If I cannot kill a tank with my radiant as a dozen teammates wack away at him, he’s essentially nearly unkillable so I just walk away with the knowledge that the player also has a zero percent chance of actually hurting anyone.

Lastly, as someone said before, use the opposing team’s tanks to heavy attack your resources back.

bulbousb16_ESO

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If I cannot kill a tank with my radiant as a dozen teammates wack away at him, he’s essentially nearly unkillable so I just walk away with the knowledge that the player also has a zero percent chance of actually hurting anyone

So, you admit that you have encountered characters that you have felt were unkillable, and so you just walked away. The problem is, these characters are controlling resources - and so, when you walk away, they win.

You have to admit that characters with resistances/health that high is a problem that needs to be adjusted. A good player should be able to handle a few enemies. No one player should be able to withstand a mob, regardless of talent.

IxSTALKERxI

@Spartabunny08 Fair points. I know there are counters to tanks but it seems like there are many more people running highly survivable builds. It's not so bad when 5-10% of enemies are tanky, but so far this patch it seems like 60% of people on the opposing factions are on a tanky build, running off in 7 different directions which can be annoying to take down 1 by 1 if spec'd to wipe a larger group with aoe rather than single targets. It's not just tanks though, there are some high sustain highly mobile builds also which are annoying to lock down.

Can adjust gameplay/strategy accordingly, but it gets to the point where you have to ask 'is this pvp meta fun?'

NyassaV

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

It's only 30 35000 health. But here's the thing since all the changes, yeah I could tank zergs before but after and since summerset buffed light attack spam and now the bleed enchant meta, my tank can be dropped by 2 people. 1 bleed build on a nightblade with good damage plus one other player will always chop my tank down. It sucks as a tank anymore. That's why I made my nightblade bleed build orc with 6200 wpn damage. I haven't had any problems with tanks and also because I have played them so extensively I know how to beat them. No bleeds though and my tank is a serious problem for enemies. There are resistance caps, 33000 soft cap and you stack up extra only if you're trying to mitigate minor and major breech and fracture. Any more than that is a waste of resources that could be better utilized somewhere else. I do see your perspective but like even before they've nerfed tanks over and over again they were very much still killable it just seemed no one was familiar all that much with like petrify, fear, bleeds, oblivion damage, hell siege the tank down. Most are vamp for damage reductions, cold fire is a *** lol. Toxic Nebula, don't know if you're familiar, feels the same way you do and even made YouTube videos to complain about it with my tank, he choose the cold fire option lol. One on one not even a emp is bringing my tank down. I like distracting, when players can't kill my tank, more come to try and now my scroll runner gets to make it to turn it in. Stuff like that. Honestly I main a healer now and am just as tanky as ever. If anything they've just made me stronger because now I've adapted and a straight up tank just isn't as viable as a 40000 resistance 4000 spell dmg healer... Now my group of three and four take on 8 and 12. So it's more like musical chairs... I would say learn the tanks weaknesses and dropping them will be no problem.

ONLY 30k or 35k health LOL, I swear way to many people have too much health these days. More and more idiots fall into the trap of "Oh I'm dying too much, I'll just get more health." and then it spreads and more people need to have more health just to compete. I used to run around with 22k-23k health but now I'm having to run around with 24-25k since I run into so many tanks and zerglings who try to outlast my damage till their zerg shows up becuase of a giant health pool.

Kartalin

The problem with a lot of these tanks (especially DKs but all of them really) is that all these pugs stack right next to the target as they try to burst them down. Meanwhile the tank is surviving on proximity based attacks or procs that give them health based on nearby opponents — vamp ult, bahrahra’s curse, inhale, that cp passive where three successful blocks guarantees next skill crits (which is used to heal) and so on. Back off the tank, snare and hard cc them ad nauseum, and range them down.

BRogueNZ

which came first, the focused target X v 1 organised small mans love to do anywhere but an actual objective worth more than a resource (not blaming them, its smart) ..or the tanks, who grow tired of it and hope to live long enough to do essentially anything?

Sanctum74

You run an organized AP farming ball group. If you can't have someone in your group running unblockable cc's, aoe's, and bleeds then you really have no reason to complain.

usmcjdking

I don't think blocking is so much the issue as much as the utter lack of any serious method or ability to break block. Anything that is highlighted as working versus block works better versus any other sort of mitigation.

The easiest, and honestly most balanced solution is just radial blocking. 270 degree blocking cone is VERY forgiving even under lag.

LuciusOctavio

Put a meatbag/scattershot/Oil Cat on a Tank lets see how long they last. Coldfires if you got them, siege getting a massive boost in damage.

Thing is everyone is Tanky in PVP, Resistance and Recovery are king. You can last longer to deal damage, sustain longer to wait for assistance.

Instead of bandaid nerf's develop strategies to combat this in game.

Demra

Play no cp.

Kadoin

Problems caused by CP shoulds be solved by them. I don't think everyone should be nerfed because of CP. If you ask me, I honestly think damage being too high and terrible balance is the real reason that these guys are starting to grow in population.

All nerfing PvP tanks would do is nerf PvE tanks and players in PvP that weren't built to hold block, plus make many builds useless in no-CP.

ssewallb14_ESO

Hi,

I play a block tank that can kill you, have since 1T, through the best and worst patches for this playstyle.

The reason this is approaching OP again is the two best counters have been nerfed heavily, and some OP potions have been added to the game. Bleeds and defile effectively shut down this playstyle, but now there are far fewer bleed builds in cyrodiil after the nerf, and the most common source of defile (Incap) is gone. Even with defile it took a heavy nerf from befoul.

Nerfing counterplay to a thing will get you more of the thing, it's a common theme in this game. Things that are "OP" are usually things with limited counterplay.

Block cost reduction hasn't been OP since block cost was effectively doubled by halving the cooldown. Messing with block cost will only break PvE and harm builds that aren't permablocking. Also resistance stacking doesn't matter at all, this doesn't make you tanky in PvP. Don't mess with this, again it will break PvE and mostly harm non block builds. More counterplay is what is needed here.

InvictusApollo

All of this sounds just like some l2p issue.
Many people forget that this game has this things called: "counters". And it just happens that a mobile tank counters a group of brain dead zerglings who don't even predict his path and cut him short. Instead they run around him in circles.

bulbousb16_ESO

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Many people forget that this game has this things called: "counters".

If you read the insightful post above yours, you will come to understand that the counters to the tank have been nerfed. Under no circumstances should a single player be able to withstand a large number of opponents. Players are not bosses.

InvictusApollo

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Many people forget that this game has this things called: "counters".

If you read the insightful post above yours, you will come to understand that the counters to the tank have been nerfed. Under no circumstances should a single player be able to withstand a large number of opponents. Players are not bosses.

And why not? Because you aren't good enough to be a "boss"?
Or maybe because your herd of zerglings doesn't even know what the word "build" means?
I think it is very good that you can't light attack someone to death even if you have a whole group of light attack spammers.

Every tank is killable. Even the tankiest permanently blocking player that I have ever met eventually got killed. It simply requires skill and insight. If you lack one of them, then at least have some decency and stop insulting yourself with calls for nerfs.

bulbousb16_ESO

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Every tank is killable. Even the tankiest permanently blocking player that I have ever met eventually got killed. It simply requires skill and insight.

Irrelevant. It shouldn't take a large group of players to kill one solo person. It's an imbalance in the game, and the result of egregious min-maxing. Just imagine what will happen when everyone converts to these builds. I know I'm making one.

BlackMadara

I haven't had much problems with tanks in a long while. The last time I had to force one off of a resource, I noticed a few things that I've applied to my gameplay.

-The only people that can permablock don't have enough damage to effectively heal themselves for long.

-Most block builds use other means of mitigation (mist form, SnB ult, LoS, protection, procedures healing sets)

-they use certain moments to charge a heavy for stamina.

So now I stack my DoTs (mDK so no bleeds) and la weave my cheapest direct damage skill to drain stamina. I'll cc to check if they are running the set that heals them while stunned or rooted. If they don't have that, cc on CD, if they do, just la weave spam. I make sure to pay attention to any heavy attack charges, step back, dodge heavy and burst down. It normally takes 2 or 3 of these moments, but works.

Dots, bleeds, defile, and unblockable cc counter tanks. If you don't spec for these, don't expect to kill an actual skilled tank. It probably means you are able to have a shorter ttk on squishier targets. That's how it should be.

Minno

BlackMadara wrote: »

I haven't had much problems with tanks in a long while. The last time I had to force one off of a resource, I noticed a few things that I've applied to my gameplay.

-The only people that can permablock don't have enough damage to effectively heal themselves for long.

-Most block builds use other means of mitigation (mist form, SnB ult, LoS, protection, procedures healing sets)

-they use certain moments to charge a heavy for stamina.

So now I stack my DoTs (mDK so no bleeds) and la weave my cheapest direct damage skill to drain stamina. I'll cc to check if they are running the set that heals them while stunned or rooted. If they don't have that, cc on CD, if they do, just la weave spam. I make sure to pay attention to any heavy attack charges, step back, dodge heavy and burst down. It normally takes 2 or 3 of these moments, but works.

Dots, bleeds, defile, and unblockable cc counter tanks. If you don't spec for these, don't expect to kill an actual skilled tank. It probably means you are able to have a shorter ttk on squishier targets. That's how it should be.

This. After this the only thing that should happen is ZoS revert the block mitigation being additive with each other.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

Kadoin wrote: »

Problems caused by CP shoulds be solved by them. I don't think everyone should be nerfed because of CP. If you ask me, I honestly think damage being too high and terrible balance is the real reason that these guys are starting to grow in population.

All nerfing PvP tanks would do is nerf PvE tanks and players in PvP that weren't built to hold block, plus make many builds useless in no-CP.

This is the most reasonable post in this thread, agreed. These are CP issues and should be handled as such.

zyk

It's not just blocking. In general, defensive sets are way stronger than offensive sets.

ZOS has made an obvious effort to reduce the Time to Kill since ESO 2.4. It's gross. Playing other games lately has put into perspective how badly broken ESO PVP is. It's actually revolting.

Dominion_Nightblade

zyk wrote: »

Playing other games lately has put into perspective how badly broken ESO PVP is. It's actually revolting.

If only more people would follow suit, zos might reflect and learn a thing or two.

Hashtag_

Dominion_Nightblade wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Playing other games lately has put into perspective how badly broken ESO PVP is. It's actually revolting.

If only more people would follow suit, zos might reflect and learn a thing or two.

Even if all the pvp players left eso it wouldn’t matter because pvp is such a small portion of the overall population.