All ESO events - Base, Chapters and DLCs - are happening in 582 only? What?

TiaFrye

Site article mentions that Elsweyr is happening six years after Euraxia took over. Which places it in year 582, since her coup was in 576.
That makes all ESO events from story content released up to date happening in the same year ESO started in the beginning.

My question is... are you joking right now, ZOS? For realz? How on Nirn we can do all these things in one year, and there is more to come with any given update afterwards!
You should stop with this stupid "play in any order" thing and give ESO normal timeline, it's just ridiculous.

Tensar

That's the first thing I saw in this article... It's doesn't make sense.

prof-dracko

There is a timeline, there's just not much ZOS can do in an open ended story. If they restricted Elsweyr to only people who had completed all of the other DLCs and zone, and thus would be "up to date" both figuratively and literally, barely anyone would be able to enjoy the new stuff. In this case immersion has to be sacrificed for gameplay. How would you solve the issue?

TiaFrye

prof-dracko wrote: »

There is a timeline, there's just not much ZOS can do in an open ended story. If they restricted Elsweyr to only people who had completed all of the other DLCs and zone, and thus would be "up to date" both figuratively and literally, barely anyone would be able to enjoy the new stuff. In this case immersion has to be sacrificed for gameplay. How would you solve the issue?

Make the order of the story clear or/and lock zones MQs, not side quests and zones themselves, to maintain do-it-in-correct-order thing. A lot of parts of the MQs doesn't make sense if not done in order. Some of them do spoil previous MQs. And most MQs doesn't even need speed run to be completed in a few hours.
That at least would've created a sense of flowing time and ability to tie MQs to specific dates, not the thing we have now.

The model they use now, and Bethesda have been using, is relatively okay for a single player game due to small amount of DLCs expanding the timeline. But pretend that it's still 582 after full blown 3 chapters and many more DLCs is insane.
More than that - they are forcing players in this one-year-timeline by posting such information and not leaving this up to community to build their own timeline if someone wants to spend not an hour in chapter X but months or a full year.

VaranisArano

ZOS experimented with moving the tineline forward in Orsinium, but with One Tamriel, trying to enforce an order of events is kind of pointless.

If you want a coherent story, it's best to just play things chronologically. But ZOS isnt going to enforce that.

Which means we'll get ridiculousness like new players working with Abnur Tharn, then doing the MQ only to find that he was

actually a semi-prisoner/semi-ally of the Worm Cult in need of rescue, who probably doesnt remember them from Elsweyr.

DBZVelena

I always considered us to be stuck in a elder scroll caused time bubble. Where you can get very lost in if you don't keep things right in your head. Like how a new Summerset toon meets Raz before Lyris.

Kagesaiga

Quoting from Meet the Character – Abnur Tharn article: "While I haven’t been able to confirm it, I suspect that Abnur and the Five Companions had a hand in the dreaded Soulburst and the subsequent disappearance of Varen Aquilarios about four years back."

VaranisArano

Kagesaiga wrote: »

Quoting from Meet the Character – Abnur Tharn article: "While I haven’t been able to confirm it, I suspect that Abnur and the Five Companions had a hand in the dreaded Soulburst and the subsequent disappearance of Varen Aquilarios about four years back."

Yep. The Soulburst happens in 2E 578, before the game starts.

Robo_Hobo

They tried it with Orsinium - there's some journals that mention the year being 583 there, but since then their stance seems to be to keep it ambiguous (for the most part), and just use 582 as the default year, what with their new tutorials always starting in the latest chapters now, and being able to do any zone at any time.

It doesn't really work - there's still a clear undebatable chronology to it - but it's good enough for most players to not feel forced into doing everything in order I guess.

There's still some mentions like the planemeld happening in the past in some notes in Elsweyr, though.

worrallj

TiaFrye wrote: »

Site article mentions that Elsweyr is happening six years after Euraxia took over. Which places it in year 582, since her coup was in 576.

You guys are bigger lore buffs than me. How do we know when euraxia invaded?

Danikat

I don't see why it's a problem. I would have thought people who care about the lore and the story will choose to play it in order anyway (at least on their main characters) and people who don't care aren't going to worry about the timeline.

It certainly doesn't seem to concern anyone in Guild Wars 2. That has an on-going story too, with the events of the game spread over 7 years (roughly matching the real-life timeline of the releases) but releases can be played in any order. People who are interested in the story will choose to play it in order, others will start with the parts which give rewards they want and then go back and do the rest and some will only do the parts that interest them. I've never seen anyone complaining that they feel like they have to do the story in order just because there's dates next to the entries in the story journal.

Admittedly that game (like most others) has the advantage that it doesn't force all new characters into the latest storyline when they're created. All new characters start at the beginning of the story and then it's your choice to skip ahead. That's the big issue I see in ESO - if they want events to occur over a longer time line they'd need to give players the option to play them in order instead of being forced into the newest part first.

RaddlemanNumber7

worrallj wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Site article mentions that Elsweyr is happening six years after Euraxia took over. Which places it in year 582, since her coup was in 576.

You guys are bigger lore buffs than me. How do we know when euraxia invaded?

It's mentioned in the book "House Tharn of Nibenay, Noble Families of Cyrodiil, Volume Seventeen" by Count Opius Voteporix, which says:

Scarcely less powerful is the Chancellor's younger half-sister, Euraxia Tharn, who has been Queen of Rimmen since the Frostfall Coup in 2E 576.

Claudman

Pretty sure everything after the base game is either in 583 or after. Could've sworn some of the lore books in Morrowind had the year 583.

Grandesdar

So "the year of the dragon" is actually what we were in since the beginning? Mind blown.

TiaFrye

Claudman wrote: »

Pretty sure everything after the base game is either in 583 or after. Could've sworn some of the lore books in Morrowind had the year 583.

One Wrothgar book had 583, Birds of Wrothgar. Yet they contradict themselves about Elsweyr later because real timeline is bad for marketing.

Korah_Eaglecry

The biggest issue will always be when you enter the game and where you start. Because ZOS has decided to make the terrible decision of forcing new players through the new content instead of giving them the option. New Players will always end up doing the newer content then doing the 582 content later. So if ZOS doesnt make it ambigous than it confuses the hell out of new players even more to be in 583 or 584 in new content then somehow be 2 years earlier when they do the rest of the game.

Since Im not a new player, headcanon wise, everything that happens post Craglorn happens in 583 onward, including Morrowind.

worrallj

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The biggest issue will always be when you enter the game and where you start. Because ZOS has decided to make the terrible decision of forcing new players through the new content instead of giving them the option. New Players will always end up doing the newer content then doing the 582 content later. So if ZOS doesnt make it ambigous than it confuses the hell out of new players even more to be in 583 or 584 in new content then somehow be 2 years earlier when they do the rest of the game.

Since Im not a new player, headcanon wise, everything that happens post Craglorn happens in 583 onward, including Morrowind.

Agreed terrible decision. It's hard to get around with one Tamriel. But even with that the least they could do is start you at the beginning instead of the middle.

Grandesdar

I don't believe it's a terrible decision. If I were a new or returning but still kinda new player, I would prioritize new content because I would not feel left behind. This kind of thing happens when I play Guild Wars 2. I never got around finishing the main quest and even after countless expansions to that, they still make your start on the chronologically very first mission. I think I played it more than 10 times and quit the game at some point.

But if they let me start in the new content i would have gladly paid for it. So ESO follows the same tactic as the base game is almost free but the new expansion is $40 and a lot of current players dont plan to buy it at launch. You see my point?

Also if someone's is interested in the lore enough, they'd be doing their research and go back to original start as soon as they finish tutorial mission in Elsweyr.

TiaFrye

Grandesdar wrote: »

I don't believe it's a terrible decision. If I were a new or returning but still kinda new player, I would prioritize new content because I would not feel left behind. This kind of thing happens when I play Guild Wars 2. I never got around finishing the main quest and even after countless expansions to that, they still make your start on the chronologically very first mission. I think I played it more than 10 times and quit the game at some point.

But if they let me start in the new content i would have gladly paid for it. So ESO follows the same tactic as the base game is almost free but the new expansion is $40 and a lot of current players dont plan to buy it at launch. You see my point?

Also if someone's is interested in the lore enough, they'd be doing their research and go back to original start as soon as they finish tutorial mission in Elsweyr.

It's not really about "go and do new content", it's about putting lore invested players in a terrible position. No hero, no matter how big, can't do everything and more to come in one year, yet ZOS insists that even Elsweyr, Chapter that has been put in the game 5 years after game's initial release, happening in the same exact year. That any MQ, not zone itself mind you, can be done in any order and it doesn't matter at all. When it does.
I would like at least to be left believe that it's been up to 5 years since base game MQ, but ZOS doesn't want that. They want everyone on the same page. When no-lore people doesn't care about that at all and for lore'people it's practically a disaster.

VaranisArano

TiaFrye wrote: »

Grandesdar wrote: »

I don't believe it's a terrible decision. If I were a new or returning but still kinda new player, I would prioritize new content because I would not feel left behind. This kind of thing happens when I play Guild Wars 2. I never got around finishing the main quest and even after countless expansions to that, they still make your start on the chronologically very first mission. I think I played it more than 10 times and quit the game at some point.

But if they let me start in the new content i would have gladly paid for it. So ESO follows the same tactic as the base game is almost free but the new expansion is $40 and a lot of current players dont plan to buy it at launch. You see my point?

Also if someone's is interested in the lore enough, they'd be doing their research and go back to original start as soon as they finish tutorial mission in Elsweyr.

It's not really about "go and do new content", it's about putting lore invested players in a terrible position. No hero, no matter how big, can't do everything and more to come in one year, yet ZOS insists that even Elsweyr, Chapter that has been put in the game 5 years after game's initial release, happening in the same exact year. That any MQ, not zone itself mind you, can be done in any order and it doesn't matter at all. When it does.
I would like at least to be left believe that it's been up to 5 years since base game MQ, but ZOS doesn't want that. They want everyone on the same page. When no-lore people doesn't care about that at all and for lore'people it's practically a disaster.

Elsweyr is a terrible start for a lore-minded player.

If you want to do everything that leads into the story before you start Elsweyr, you have to:
Do the Main Quest.
Do the Alik'r Delves and Volenfell.
Be at least level 45 to queue for Wrathstone's dungeons.
Do the Elsweyr Prologue.

At the very least, if you want to know why there are dragons rampaging in Elsweyr, you have to:
Lead Elsweyr, travel to your Starter City, talk to Abnur Tharn, and do the Elsweyr Prologue, then go back to Elsweyr to start the Chapter.

Its a little absurd to my mind.

Grandesdar

That's what I'm talking. I agree it's a terrible start for lore-minded player but majority of newcomers wouldn't care about the lore to begin with, they want dragons and want to be the next dovahkiin while complaining there is no TES6 yet. It's a marketing strategy for ZOS.

VaranisArano

Grandesdar wrote: »

That's what I'm talking. I agree it's a terrible start for lore-minded player but majority of newcomers wouldn't care about the lore to begin with, they want dragons and want to be the next dovahkiin while complaining there is no TES6 yet. It's a marketing strategy for ZOS.

That's certainly true. Many players do want to just jump straight into the newest content.

And I don't mind that. But I also see a lot of new players asking "What order should I do the story? What is there to do after Elsweyr? What's the Main Quest? How do I start it?" And that's been happening since Morrowind.

I really wish ZOS gave us an option for which start to go with. I'd recommend three options:
1. The Main Quest's original Soul Shriven in Coldharbor tutorial
2. Morrowind's tutorial, starting off the Daedric Wars Arc
3. Elsweyr tutorial, starting off the newest Chapter

Korah_Eaglecry

Honestly they know that a large subsection of the playerbase could care less about the lore and things stacking in a manner that makes sense. Its probably the overwhelming majority. So a part of me does wonder why they dont address the movement in time knowing most will probably over look it or not pay attention to it. Why keep up the ambiguousness of it if most wont stop to read that book with dates in it. Just give the lore enthusiasts what they want.

Kambo

It's not directly stated anywhere what the current year in the timeline is, despite speculation due to this post's subject, but I would like to provide my own input to put some kind of chronological setting to the game, rather than leaving it ambiguous.

We know that Imperial City takes place in 582, technically before the defeat of Molag Bal. Orsinium takes place in 583, as has been discovered in things like journals. There are two ways we can look at this then. We can follow the timeline based on the real life releases of DLCs and Chapters, or we can place certain DLCs and such together in clusters to form the timeline.

Following the former, starting with Orsinium in 583, next up would be Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Shadows of the Hist in 584. Following that would be Morrowind, Horns of the Reach, and Clockwork City in 585. Then we'd have Dragon Bones, Summerset, Wolfhunter, and Murkmire in 586. And finally, the entire Year of the Dragon beginning with Wrathstone will encompass all of 587.

Now with the latter option, once again starting with Orsinium, I would place it, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Shadows of the Hist together in 583. Morrowind, Horns of the Reach, and Clockwork City in 584. Dragon Bones, Summerset, Wolfhunter, and Murkmire in 585. And finally, the Year of the Dragon in 586.

In my opinion, the former option seems the most likely.

The main inconsistency pointed out about the timeline in the actual writing has been multiple statements about Euraxia conquering Rimmen 6 years prior, but I also have a tidbit that contradicts that a bit. After Abnur Tharn teleports you into the Rimmen Sewers after the failed negotiation, assuming you've done the original main story, you have the option of stating "You were more powerful when you faced Mannimarco" to which he will respond with "My old age is finally catching up to me". It seems unlikely to me that he could face Mannimarco one-on-one in a magic duel and then find his old age catching up to him in the same year. There are also a few conversation points about whether he's heard from the other Companions. Realistically, it only makes sense to assume that the timeline has been moving forward, rather than assuming it's been stuck in 582.

It's possible they may be referring to Euraxia having conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the defeat of Molag Bal, or even simply 6 years prior to the current place in the timeline, making the date she actually conquered the city being 581, though both are a bit of a stretch to be honest. I mean it's possible she invaded in 576 and only conquered the city in 581, give or take, but still. Personally, I don't think it's worth looking too much into. It seems like a simple mistake on the part of the writers and isn't really that big of a deal if you think about it. There have been mistakes and changes in the past with the writing, so at this point it shouldn't seem like anything new. Remember how the Alfiq originally in lore were mute, unable to speak, but they changed it for Elsweyr stating it was a misconception? I first thought that was a mistake.

Don't jump the gun is all I'm really saying I guess.

Danikat

But since One Tamriel was released starting new players at the actual beginning of the game wouldn't make any difference to those who don't care about lore. Ok they'd have to go through Coldharbour instead of the Elseweyr academy and then use a waypoint or ship to get to the newest content, but if they're new and don't care about the story it won't matter which introduction they get and I'm sure even a new player can figure out how to get to a different map. Or how to type "How do I get to the bit with dragons?" in chat.

Besides which the most common suggestion is to make it optional. Where the character creator currently asks if you want to play the tutorial or skip it they could add additional options to start in Coldharbour, and maybe add Morrowind and Summerset too. If they really want to push new players into the latest expansion they could make it a two-step process - option 1 is Play "The Tutorial" (the one for the latest expansion) Skip, or Other. And if you click Other you get a second list with other tutorials to choose from.

Again there would be almost no change for those who want to start in the latest expansion, but it doesn't force everyone else to go through a mangled story as well.

Tensar

Kambo wrote: »

It's not directly stated anywhere what the current year in the timeline is, despite speculation due to this post's subject, but I would like to provide my own input to put some kind of chronological setting to the game, rather than leaving it ambiguous.

We know that Imperial City takes place in 582, technically before the defeat of Molag Bal. Orsinium takes place in 583, as has been discovered in things like journals. There are two ways we can look at this then. We can follow the timeline based on the real life releases of DLCs and Chapters, or we can place certain DLCs and such together in clusters to form the timeline.

Following the former, starting with Orsinium in 583, next up would be Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Shadows of the Hist in 584. Following that would be Morrowind, Horns of the Reach, and Clockwork City in 585. Then we'd have Dragon Bones, Summerset, Wolfhunter, and Murkmire in 586. And finally, the entire Year of the Dragon beginning with Wrathstone will encompass all of 587.

Now with the latter option, once again starting with Orsinium, I would place it, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Shadows of the Hist together in 583. Morrowind, Horns of the Reach, and Clockwork City in 584. Dragon Bones, Summerset, Wolfhunter, and Murkmire in 585. And finally, the Year of the Dragon in 586.

In my opinion, the former option seems the most likely.

The main inconsistency pointed out about the timeline in the actual writing has been multiple statements about Euraxia conquering Rimmen 6 years prior, but I also have a tidbit that contradicts that a bit. After Abnur Tharn teleports you into the Rimmen Sewers after the failed negotiation, assuming you've done the original main story, you have the option of stating "You were more powerful when you faced Mannimarco" to which he will respond with "My old age is finally catching up to me". It seems unlikely to me that he could face Mannimarco one-on-one in a magic duel and then find his old age catching up to him in the same year. There are also a few conversation points about whether he's heard from the other Companions. Realistically, it only makes sense to assume that the timeline has been moving forward, rather than assuming it's been stuck in 582.

It's possible they may be referring to Euraxia having conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the defeat of Molag Bal, or even simply 6 years prior to the current place in the timeline, making the date she actually conquered the city being 581, though both are a bit of a stretch to be honest. I mean it's possible she invaded in 576 and only conquered the city in 581, give or take, but still. Personally, I don't think it's worth looking too much into. It seems like a simple mistake on the part of the writers and isn't really that big of a deal if you think about it. There have been mistakes and changes in the past with the writing, so at this point it shouldn't seem like anything new. Remember how the Alfiq originally in lore were mute, unable to speak, but they changed it for Elsweyr stating it was a misconception? I first thought that was a mistake.

Don't jump the gun is all I'm really saying I guess.

Sadly Abnur Tharn say himself "1 year ago" when he talk about coldharbour events... So the game is just stupid at this point.

Kambo

Tensar wrote: »

Sadly Abnur Tharn say himself "1 year ago" when he talk about coldharbour events... So the game is just stupid at this point.

I just took the time to sift through all of the dialogue that Abnur has in regards to Years and Coldharbour. There is no specific mention at all about him saying the Coldharbour events happened "1 year ago". The only reference to a single year is him commenting "If you told me a year ago that I would be wandering Elsweyr on behalf of the Khajiit to deal with a rage of Dragons, I would have turned you into a newt for spouting such nonsense. Yet here we are."

Considering the whole "6 years ago" thing has remained incredibly persistent throughout my search though, I'm almost inclined to believe the year is still 583 just on that alone. Thinking back on it some more, it's possible that the whole Daedric Triad storyline begins and ends in 583 and still leaves time for Elsweyr, but only barely. Chronologically those events would have to happen pretty close to each other in order for it to work, but I suppose it is possible. Not super thrilled about that prospect though.

Then again at this point it's just speculation. We won't really know until the Loremaster confirms a set year. That being said, I imagine it hasn't reached Frostfall of 583 yet, or else they would say Euraxia claimed the throne 7 years ago, as the event in which she did it is referred to as the "Frostfall Coup".

Using this information, I have a rough chronological order for when the events occurred. Orsinium likely was around the very beginning of 583, with Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild both probably taking place over the course of only a couple weeks, give or take. Morrowind probably happens around First Seed or Rain's Hand. Following this, Clockwork City and Summerset probably took place somewhere around Second Seed and Mid Year, with Murkmire possibly happening in Sun's Height. Wrathstone and the Elsweyr Prologue probably happen during Last Seed, leaving Hearthfire for the events of Elsweyr, as going into Frostfall would make it around 7 years ago that Euraxia took Rimmen.

Even with that order it's a bit of a stretch, but once again, until it's actively confirmed, this is probably the best rendition of the timeline's progression I can come up with. Sprinkle the dungeon DLCs in-between everything else and you should be fine.

Still not going to be super thrilled if it actually is still 583, since that squishes so much story into only a single year.

EDIT: Boy, do I sure feel stupid right now
https://i.imgur.com/8UskOJF.png

Bealindra

see it as (as movies sometimes has) anyone seen sliding door or xman days of future past)
past,preset,future.

maybe a calibrer alteration of side by side reality..
anyhow the story binds it togheter, it might not be in time but le final'e will

Korah_Eaglecry

Kambo wrote: »

Tensar wrote: »

Sadly Abnur Tharn say himself "1 year ago" when he talk about coldharbour events... So the game is just stupid at this point.

I just took the time to sift through all of the dialogue that Abnur has in regards to Years and Coldharbour. There is no specific mention at all about him saying the Coldharbour events happened "1 year ago". The only reference to a single year is him commenting "If you told me a year ago that I would be wandering Elsweyr on behalf of the Khajiit to deal with a rage of Dragons, I would have turned you into a newt for spouting such nonsense. Yet here we are."

Considering the whole "6 years ago" thing has remained incredibly persistent throughout my search though, I'm almost inclined to believe the year is still 583 just on that alone. Thinking back on it some more, it's possible that the whole Daedric Triad storyline begins and ends in 583 and still leaves time for Elsweyr, but only barely. Chronologically those events would have to happen pretty close to each other in order for it to work, but I suppose it is possible. Not super thrilled about that prospect though.

Then again at this point it's just speculation. We won't really know until the Loremaster confirms a set year. That being said, I imagine it hasn't reached Frostfall of 583 yet, or else they would say Euraxia claimed the throne 7 years ago, as the event in which she did it is referred to as the "Frostfall Coup".

Using this information, I have a rough chronological order for when the events occurred. Orsinium likely was around the very beginning of 583, with Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild both probably taking place over the course of only a couple weeks, give or take. Morrowind probably happens around First Seed or Rain's Hand. Following this, Clockwork City and Summerset probably took place somewhere around Second Seed and Mid Year, with Murkmire possibly happening in Sun's Height. Wrathstone and the Elsweyr Prologue probably happen during Last Seed, leaving Hearthfire for the events of Elsweyr, as going into Frostfall would make it around 7 years ago that Euraxia took Rimmen.

Even with that order it's a bit of a stretch, but once again, until it's actively confirmed, this is probably the best rendition of the timeline's progression I can come up with. Sprinkle the dungeon DLCs in-between everything else and you should be fine.

Still not going to be super thrilled if it actually is still 583, since that squishes so much story into only a single year.

EDIT: Boy, do I sure feel stupid right now
https://i.imgur.com/8UskOJF.png

Im just going to assume that the 6 years ago comment is more of a general thing than a hard number. People are often more or less inaccurate when it comes to years vs months or weeks. For instance referring to an event that occurred 8 years ago as "a decade ago" or "about 10 years ago". So usually when I hear someone say a number of years I assume a window of a year or two on either side of the number being given. If its written though, I will be more attentive to the number being presented and assume its accurate.

Personally I think if we are accounting for everything that has happened we are probably more or less in mid 584 to early 585.

Imperial City took place around about the end of the MQ. And Orsinium placed us well into the beginnings of 583 and with its movements up and down the province as well as things like the siege. My assumption is that DLC like Orsinium and the Chapters take place over an extended period of time being at the very least a month. Even if we assume that the Guild DLCs were only a few weeks at at time. There is still the assumed travel time from location to location. By the time we made it back across the continent to Vvardenfell it would have to be either mid to late summer with Clockwork City coming in around early to late fall. Im not a big fan of the idea that events would be coming down the pipe back to back and that the Vestige would be able to instantaneously respond to them all or immediately move from location to location (even if we treat wayshrines as real things and not just convenient player movement tools the Vestige would still need to locate these before using them for instant teleportation). Summerset would have to be either at the very end of 583 or sometime not long after the beginning of 584. Murkmire occurring any time over a few months after the conclusion of the Daedric War. Wrathstone is also a bit far flung and means that it would have to be over a number of weeks or a few short months before we hit the prologue of Elsweyr. At its earliest Elsweyr would probably take place sometime in late spring or early summer of 584.

This is also assuming the Vestige takes part in all of the Dungeon DLCs that are again, quite far flung and require travel time. With the Dungeon DLCs added to the mix it could potentially be early 585 when Elsweyr takes place.

Hallothiel

@Kambo

Do you have a better link / image as cant read a damn thing in the one you posted - is just a blur! Ta.

Kambo

Hallothiel wrote: »

@Kambo

Do you have a better link / image as cant read a damn thing in the one you posted - is just a blur! Ta.

You can click on the image to enhance it.