Pet Sorcs in Bgs

VikingBerserker

How tf are these pet sorc builds so damn tanky?

Iskiab

I’m no expert, but I think they run 5 Necropence/Bright throat, 5 armour master plus Chudan. Two protective jewellery.

I think that’s the current basic sorc setup. 5 light.

brandonv516

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

Iskiab

Yea, I think the annoying ones run necropence - one burst combo and run away. BT is better sustain so some might use it, IDK.

Personally find the low sustain ones ineffective on my team. I’ll see a warden or DK setup a group with everyone in execute range, meanwhile I’ll look and see the sorc already running away because of sustain issues. They’re like one trick ponies with one burst combo and can’t adapt because they lack situational awareness, and leave all those killing blows for the other team. It’s like they don’t feel safe pvping without a tree nearby. /rant off

Aurielle

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO PET OR FO CRY !

Noctus

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, I think the annoying ones run necropence - one burst combo and run away. BT is better sustain so some might use it, IDK.

Personally find the low sustain ones ineffective on my team. I’ll see a warden or DK setup a group with everyone in execute range, meanwhile I’ll look and see the sorc already running away because of sustain issues. They’re like one trick ponies with one burst combo and can’t adapt because they lack situational awareness, and leave all those killing blows for the other team. It’s like they don’t feel safe pvping without a tree nearby. /rant off

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

im astonished noone of u mentioned the reduced costs on ult which lets u use healing staff ult very often combined with frost staff and the set Desert Rose and earthgore a casual pvp player have no hope and even an experienced pvp player will have difficulties or even need up to 3 ppl to take that guy down if its a troll tank build.

with the following u dont have to agree but its just my opinion:
in this game survivability > dmg. becouse ur survivability consist of dmg mitigation + heal effectively giving troll tank builds the upperhand

Iskiab

Noctus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, I think the annoying ones run necropence - one burst combo and run away. BT is better sustain so some might use it, IDK.

Personally find the low sustain ones ineffective on my team. I’ll see a warden or DK setup a group with everyone in execute range, meanwhile I’ll look and see the sorc already running away because of sustain issues. They’re like one trick ponies with one burst combo and can’t adapt because they lack situational awareness, and leave all those killing blows for the other team. It’s like they don’t feel safe pvping without a tree nearby. /rant off

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

im astonished noone of u mentioned the reduced costs on ult which lets u use healing staff ult very often combined with frost staff and the set Desert Rose and earthgore a casual pvp player have no hope and even an experienced pvp player will have difficulties or even need up to 3 ppl to take that guy down if its a troll tank build.

with the following u dont have to agree but its just my opinion:
in this game survivability > dmg. becouse ur survivability consist of dmg mitigation + heal effectively giving troll tank builds the upperhand

Hum, interesting. I don’t have a sorc I just try to keep up on stuff people say on the forums. Maybe I should experiment on my magblade.

Agree 100% about tankiness. Hate the low survivability types on my team. They soak up too much healing so I can’t do any damage, and spend all their time playing defensively because they’re so squishy.

Smart healing can be a curse. A lot of times the squishy guy will get the heal and die anyways, where it could have gone to the person who’s contributing to the group and saved them.

@Noctus

Messing around and applying the same concept to magblade this is the best I could come up with:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=130085

Skills are there just for passives. Couple questions:
- block cost is still ~500 magicka which seems high. Using S&B you can get it to 200 stamina per block. Ever tried S&B instead with stamina enchants? This would unlock magicka recovery.
- how does it perform when not blocking? I fear people whenever I see them blocking
- Is there a sweet spot or anything I’m missing that I could tweak?

Might try it as a melee magblade, the editor shows it with all resistance buffs up. Without them resistances seem low.

LordTareq

Iskiab wrote: »

Messing around and applying the same concept to magblade this is the best I could come up with:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=130085

Skills are there just for passives. Couple questions:
- block cost is still ~500 magicka which seems high. Using S&B you can get it to 200 stamina per block. Ever tried S&B instead with stamina enchants? This would unlock magicka recovery.
- how does it perform when not blocking? I fear people whenever I see them blocking
- Is there a sweet spot or anything I’m missing that I could tweak?

Might try it as a melee magblade, the editor shows it with all resistance buffs up. Without them resistances seem low.

Won't work, you don't have the defenses to last under focus fire, nor the healing. Rapid Healing alone just isn't going to cut it and your ultimate won't be available every time. Also two near identical bars is usually not a great idea.

I tried PvP-tanking in battlegrounds on my magblade using heavy Shacklebreaker + Pariah + Bloodspawn. For healing I used Mutagen, Healing Ward & Blessing of Protection as well as Healthy Offering.
Survivability even with 5x heavy armor, defensive monster set & 1 defensive armor set, as well as the heals, while decent, was still not that amazing. Facetanking high dps players the way DK's and Templars can didn't end well, and I still had to rely heavily on cloak not to be focused down.

oxygen_thief

Iskiab wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, I think the annoying ones run necropence - one burst combo and run away. BT is better sustain so some might use it, IDK.

Personally find the low sustain ones ineffective on my team. I’ll see a warden or DK setup a group with everyone in execute range, meanwhile I’ll look and see the sorc already running away because of sustain issues. They’re like one trick ponies with one burst combo and can’t adapt because they lack situational awareness, and leave all those killing blows for the other team. It’s like they don’t feel safe pvping without a tree nearby. /rant off

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

im astonished noone of u mentioned the reduced costs on ult which lets u use healing staff ult very often combined with frost staff and the set Desert Rose and earthgore a casual pvp player have no hope and even an experienced pvp player will have difficulties or even need up to 3 ppl to take that guy down if its a troll tank build.

with the following u dont have to agree but its just my opinion:
in this game survivability > dmg. becouse ur survivability consist of dmg mitigation + heal effectively giving troll tank builds the upperhand

Hum, interesting. I don’t have a sorc I just try to keep up on stuff people say on the forums. Maybe I should experiment on my magblade.

Agree 100% about tankiness. Hate the low survivability types on my team. They soak up too much healing so I can’t do any damage, and spend all their time playing defensively because they’re so squishy.

Smart healing can be a curse. A lot of times the squishy guy will get the heal and die anyways, where it could have gone to the person who’s contributing to the group and saved them.

@Noctus

Messing around and applying the same concept to magblade this is the best I could come up with:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=130085

Skills are there just for passives. Couple questions:
- block cost is still ~500 magicka which seems high. Using S&B you can get it to 200 stamina per block. Ever tried S&B instead with stamina enchants? This would unlock magicka recovery.
- how does it perform when not blocking? I fear people whenever I see them blocking
- Is there a sweet spot or anything I’m missing that I could tweak?

Might try it as a melee magblade, the editor shows it with all resistance buffs up. Without them resistances seem low.

desert rose on a light magblade? are you sure you will survive long enough to make it proc? i used it on a heavy magickadk s&b/ ice staff. i was beaten hard by four ppl in bgs and its procs were average. does anybody use DR now?

Iskiab

Well that’s what I was thinking, but someone mentioned using an ice staff with desert rose, since Ice staves makes blocking cost magicka. Only issue is it would lock your magicka regen and you use magicka for your abilities, and I never considered using all procs and sets for magicka sustain instead.

I was considering something similar but with sword and board so interested. Those skills btw on the prior build were just placeholders.

I was considering trying this instead but am not sure if it’d work:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132662

Basicly perma blocking with sword and board while spamming magicka abilities. Leeching and stamina drain enchant to offset the blocking cost.

Is cc that bypasses block easily accessible? I know for NBs it is (fear) but am not sure about other classes.

oxygen_thief

Why do you insist on magicka? You can try heavy stam s&b/2h you will have vigor, rally shadowy disguise sets like seventh legion, Alessian order, crest of cyrodiil ect

Iskiab

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Why do you insist on magicka? You can try heavy stam s&b/2h you will have vigor, rally shadowy disguise sets like seventh legion, Alessian order, crest of cyrodiil ect

Tried a stamina NB. I was able to brawl leveling up but found it lacks the survivability to brawl at 50... I was left with the impression that I suck big time as stamina. For my other alts I leveled them during xp events instead of pvp so am meh at them. I could learn how to play them well, but I’d have to eat sucking in my first 100 BGs.

I’d rather master one class then be mediocre at a lot of classes. I typically only play max 2 characters so I’m going to change my stamblade to a magblade and try necro when it comes out. All the cool magblades went melee to get around reflections so I want to try it without having to change my morphs all the time.

Besides, Stamblades and stamina in general are too slow. Once you play a magblade it’s hard to play another class because you get spoiled with speed. Imagine playing a templar or DK after playing a sorc a lot, you’d constantly be missing streak. That’s what it’s like when you play another class after magblade but substitute speed.

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Besides, Stamblades and stamina in general are too slow. Once you play a magblade it’s hard to play another class because you get spoiled with speed. Imagine playing a templar or DK after playing a sorc a lot, you’d constantly be missing streak. That’s what it’s like when you play another class after magblade but substitute speed.

If you want real speed, play an Orc Stamina Sorcerer and learn when to utilize sprint.

Noctus

Iskiab wrote: »

Well that’s what I was thinking, but someone mentioned using an ice staff with desert rose, since Ice staves makes blocking cost magicka. Only issue is it would lock your magicka regen and you use magicka for your abilities, and I never considered using all procs and sets for magicka sustain instead.

I was considering something similar but with sword and board so interested. Those skills btw on the prior build were just placeholders.

I was considering trying this instead but am not sure if it’d work:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=132662

Basicly perma blocking with sword and board while spamming magicka abilities. Leeching and stamina drain enchant to offset the blocking cost.

Is cc that bypasses block easily accessible? I know for NBs it is (fear) but am not sure about other classes.

u cant copy that on nightblade u dont have the reduced ultimate cost of a sorc. what u gotta do is survive just enough for the ult to go 100 % then go back to shielding. while the ult active u use heavy to refresh ur magicka and then repeat again. make sure u have 30 k resistance and over 30 k + hp. u can manage up to 3 ppl if ur experienced.

Betty_Booms

I dont reccomend armor master for no cp as it leaves you with too low of a magicka pool which affects the shield size too much due to battle spirit.

The tankiness comes from stacking harness magicka and hardened ward. Sorcs are very resistent to magicka also which transfers to those shields. And to add to this harness returns magicka every time a magicka attack is absorbed so very sustainable.

Iskiab

With the shield changes taking damage according to your mitigation aren’t resistances still worthwhile?

I had thought that was one of the reasons shield stacking sorcs were so powerful. What I mean is if your mitigation is like:

50% mitigation 4K shield = 8k of damage absorbed pre mitigation

0% mitigation 6k shield = 6k of damage absorbed

The example is from arbitrary numbers, I just mean mitigation is adding more to survivability with weaker shields then stronger shields from more magicka ever could.

Each protective ring is 3% less damage giving up 1K of a stat. Chudan is to free a skill slot. Armour master for resistances plus health.

Alienoutlaw

its not so much being tanky, the pets run LOS and give ALOT of interference sorcs have power surge that heals on crit and shields the twilight has a massive heal (troll king increases this) as posted already most pet sorcs run Necro personally i run rattlecage with VMA inferno, reach and deadric tombs hit like trucks

MaxJrFTW

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

its not so much being tanky, the pets run LOS and give ALOT of interference sorcs have power surge that heals on crit and shields the twilight has a massive heal (troll king increases this) as posted already most pet sorcs run Necro personally i run rattlecage with VMA inferno, reach and deadric tombs hit like trucks

The heal does like 3k in no CP. Far from massive.

InvictusApollo

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

When anyone else uses a tree for cover, then it's "skillfull", but when a sorcerer uses his pets for cover (which are moving around), that is somehow "A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off".

Iskiab

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

When anyone else uses a tree for cover, then it's "skillfull", but when a sorcerer uses his pets for cover (which are moving around), that is somehow "A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off".

You said it, glad we’re on the same page!

Seriously though, no classes are easy in themselves. There is an advantage to having a tree that follows you around though.

Just ignore salty complaints. People don’t like losing and it’s an ego check, blaming an imbalance is part of the people’s coping mechanism in pvp. The more salt, the better you’re doing. If I don’t get a salty tell for a couple weeks I worry I’m losing my edge.

VikingBerserker

i ended up running necro/armor master/chudan its pretty strong, but far from invincible. Tankier dks seem to be the worst to matchup against.

wheem_ESO

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

When anyone else uses a tree for cover, then it's "skillfull", but when a sorcerer uses his pets for cover (which are moving around), that is somehow "A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off".

That's not a valid comparison. As far as I know, there are no trees - or other terrain/objects - that allow one player to stand behind them and go full offense on another player that has their line of sight/targeting blocked by said object.

Aurielle

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

When anyone else uses a tree for cover, then it's "skillfull", but when a sorcerer uses his pets for cover (which are moving around), that is somehow "A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off".

There are several differences between pet LOS and terrain LOS. Let’s review them:

1. One cannot unintentionally waste single target ultimates on trees.
2. One cannot unintentionally waste single target skills (and the resources associated with said skills) on trees.
3. Trees cannot deal auto attack damage or heal your target while they’re using them for cover.
4. Trees make it harder for your LOSing opponent to hit you — it’s not a one way disadvantage.
5. Trees do not follow your opponent around.
6. Trees cannot CC you.
7. Trees cannot absorb procs from monster sets, skills like Flames of Oblivion, etc.

So yes, when sorcerers use their free mitigation meat shields, they’re engaging in a very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off. Terrain LOS is in no way comparable.

ccmedaddy

^ Truth.

Let me just add that there's a special place in the n00b purgatory for pet sorcs that use Engine Guardian lol

iCaliban

Just remove pets from being targetable and this problem goes away.

oxygen_thief

iCaliban wrote: »

Just remove pets from being targetable and this problem goes away.

they will be invulnerable then. in zos mind an ability to kill pets is a counter to the zoo build.

Urvoth

oxygen_thief wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Just remove pets from being targetable and this problem goes away.

they will be invulnerable then. in zos mind an ability to kill pets is a counter to the zoo build.

Who wants to kill the pets? If that were a viable strategy, you wouldn’t see so many people complaining about them being targetable.

Targetable pets are just a cancerous crutch for bad players and end up giving real sorcs a bad rep.

Juhasow

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Many are running something like Armor Master, Necropotence, and Chudan. This combination provides a lot of resistances and a healthy magicka pool.

This on top of the targeting interference that pets cause provides a lethal combo.

And Matriarch heals are nothing to dismiss.

This. It’s no big secret. They also get free mitigation from their zoos. A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off — which probably explains why there’s so darn many of them in BGs these days.

When anyone else uses a tree for cover, then it's "skillfull", but when a sorcerer uses his pets for cover (which are moving around), that is somehow "A very easy play style that requires very little skill to pull off".

When You use trees to disrupt enemy line of sight You do it also to Yourself. Enemy cant hit You but You also cant hit enemy when with the pet You are free to deal damage to enemy and You most of the time dont even spend time on positioning Yourself pet will simply just absorb part of enemy damage. When You use tree as a cover enemy wont waste resources on hitting the tree while he can waste resources on hitting the pet. Obstacles like trees or rocks wont follow You to grant You cover.

Aurielle

Urvoth wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Just remove pets from being targetable and this problem goes away.

they will be invulnerable then. in zos mind an ability to kill pets is a counter to the zoo build.

Who wants to kill the pets? If that were a viable strategy, you wouldn’t see so many people complaining about them being targetable.

Targetable pets are just a cancerous crutch for bad players and end up giving real sorcs a bad rep.

All. Of. This.

Don’t get me wrong, there are good pet sorcs out there — said good pet sorcs usually just use Matriarch for the heal, and not for the cheap LOS. When you streak out into the field with your daedroth, your scamp, your matriarch, AND your storm atronach, however, you loudly announce to everyone in the BG that you’re either there just to farm hate tells, or you’re SO bad at playing sorcerer that you need four forms of free LOS mitigation (two of which are the size of Russia) to be of any use to your teammates. Bonus points for trolling and/or utterly failing at your class if four of you form a premade with the exact same build.

jcm2606

I'll say it again, just get rid of the *** targeting. Boom, problem solved. Pets now won't steal my skills and ultimates when I had no intention of fighting them in the first place. It's really not that hard.