The Zoo meta is getting old...

Myrkgrav

It is incredibly annoying and broken. Anyone who denies just doesn't play PvP, and its painfully obvious.

Aurielle

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Yes. Gaining free mitigation from 8-16 pets is imbalanced. Making your enemies unintentionally waste their resources on your pets is unbalanced.

Wow life must be rough for some. I've never seen 16 pets in BG. I bet it is the premades that have been ruining BGs. What do you think?

Thanks for confirming that you’ve never played against a pet sorc premade. Each player has two permanent pets out (scamp, twilight) guaranteeing 8 pets around them at all times, then they coordinate their storm atro ults. Combined with Maw of the Infernal procs, you can have sixteen pets active at once. It’s pure chaos when it happens, and a lot of people just end up leaving the BG. Packleader WW premades are ridiculous too. Eight pets plus WW bleeds/heals... might as well just exit out of the game when that happens.

Anyone who denies that this is a problem is probably exploiting it themselves.

StormeReigns

Had seen a few. Luckily I've been in only two BGs with very similar setups. I just hang back and spam Inevitable Detonation (and Haunting curse if on my sorc at the time) into the chaotic mess. Staying back as far as possible to not draw too much attention in my direction.

But often the sounds of the multiple explosions and damage getting amplified by that makes my few deaths worth it during those rare occasional matches.

WreckfulAbandon

It's not just fighting pet sorc teams in BGs that is problematic about pets. The wonky targeting system and impossibility of interrupting 100% of resummons (especially for melee) make the counterplay options vs a competent zoo sorc limited.

And most ppl who use zoo sorcs know this making it cheeky at best and exploiting shoddy mechanics at worst. There's a reason that pet sorcs are banned from every duelling tourney and no pet sorc in Cyrodiil deserves the courtesy or honor of a 1v1.

Alucardo

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Yes. Gaining free mitigation from 8-16 pets is imbalanced. Making your enemies unintentionally waste their resources on your pets is unbalanced.

Wow life must be rough for some. I've never seen 16 pets in BG. I bet it is the premades that have been ruining BGs. What do you think?

Yes, it's most likely pre-mades. I have been in BGs where there have been a significant amount of pets on the map, like the 6 wolves I was talking about earlier.
Pet sorcs are gaining popularity, so there's generally lots of other little critters running around to get in your way too. Nobody is asking for these pets to get nerfed or anything, we simply don't want to continually have them blocking LoS as it's a cheap and unfair way of gaining free mitigation.

Strider__Roshin

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Nerf PvE for the sake of PvP thread. No thanks.

Reading what's said in the thread before commenting? I'm guessing you said "no thanks" to that too?

PhoenixGrey

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Strider__Roshin

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Wat?

Aurielle

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Say what now? My main is a classic non-pet destro/resto sorc, and I have to play other classes just so that I have a challenge. Sorcs are still extremely strong when played well.

Canned_Apples

They're giving up two slots but the pets do all the damage anyways while they stand back popping three bubbles and spamming lightning heavy attacks to command their pets and summon another one.

Warden Bear isn't as big of a nuisance - it's very unreliable and requires two ULTIMATE slots, which is a bigger trade off. -at most, you'll see 1 or 2 people per day running the bear ultimate.
I tried using it multiple times when I first started playing, and again recently, but I couldn't get it work reliably on any build I tried. It's too slow, and having to command it to attack your target every second is a feat in its own. One time the bear was on the other end of the map while I was spamming "pet attack" and heavy attacks.

The magic execute can do a fair bit of damage if you manage to get it off, but most of the time it is off glitching about and if you pop the execute when it randomly decides to attack another target then the ultimate won't go off and you'll lose your points. Using DoBS/Forest/Permafrost/etc. is far more reliable and gives you more flexibility (defense on one bar, offense on the other.)

Emma_Overload

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Ye I’m not sure why 98% of sorcs are going pet builds in pvp now. You’re losing 2 slots. And the pet is just free ulti for people with the max Fighter’s Guild passive.

Because the Restoration line is terrible, especially after the nerf to Healing Ward. It's that simple.

DBZVelena

I disagree that the problem is the pets. its clearly the broken targeting. And if that was fixed both pvp AND pve would be happy.
I mean, how often has a pet not stood in the way of something a pve-er needed to interact with? Same thing.
Pets are great fun, but they should not be used a body-blockers.
As soon as targeting truly ignores pets well...
we'd prob get a topic about broken pet utility XD

Koensol

vamp_emily wrote: »

Anything else?

You guys are running out of things to cry about.

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

We’ve been pointing out the imbalances of pet stacking (sure, call it “crying” if you like) for a long time.

Is it really imbalanced? Or just something you don't like?

Please, if you don't play BGs or haven't ever fought against a group stacked with petsorcs, stop trying to mingle in discussion and blaming people for having bias. Petsorcs are almost objectively broken because the pets block all line of sight to the target, while all they have to do is apply curse, fury and just spam lightning staff heavy attacks and laugh while you are taking a ton of unavoidable dmg. Yea... totally balanced there. It's no surprise they have been banned from any serious duelling tournament.

Alucardo

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

I'm not even sure we're playing the same game if you believe that

Strider__Roshin

DBZVelena wrote: »

I disagree that the problem is the pets. its clearly the broken targeting. And if that was fixed both pvp AND pve would be happy.
I mean, how often has a pet not stood in the way of something a pve-er needed to interact with? Same thing.
Pets are great fun, but they should not be used a body-blockers.
As soon as targeting truly ignores pets well...
we'd prob get a topic about broken pet utility XD

That's what I mentioned in my opening statement. The fact that these pets LoS is the main issue. If I could hard target my opponent and have all my attacks hit them rather than their pets this would much less of an issue.

PhoenixGrey

Aurielle wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Say what now? My main is a classic non-pet destro/resto sorc, and I have to play other classes just so that I have a challenge. Sorcs are still extremely strong when played well.

Pet sorc is extremely strong when played well. If oblivion damage was not a thing in the game I can say the classic version would still work else its just a shield stacking potato slayer which any other class in the game can do. The healing ward nerf killed off the classic sorc IMO

Thogard

Alucardo wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

I'm not even sure we're playing the same game if you believe that

Phoenix grey is the highest MMR and most talented mag sorc playing pc NA BGs atm

Toc de Malsvi

aeden_0 wrote: »

Has ZOS ever commented on taking into account the shielding effect of pets when balancing? It's not just class pets, the Maw of the Infernal proc can be way overpowered if played right.

If they intend for pets to be such a targeting annoyance they need to reduce their health so players can realistically kill them in combat. This would make it similar to breaking a shield. If they didn't they should make all pet's non-targetable (like shade) and reduce their damage or something.

Not just Maw of the Infernal, Engine Guardian is a free misdirect for every fourth single target projectile its far worse than Infernal cause it butt-hugs the owner while they hop around. The worst is when you cast something like Ballista at a player only to see the Engine Guardian spawn and somehow magically the Ballista appears to decide the Engine Guardian was the original target.

PhoenixGrey

Alucardo wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

I'm not even sure we're playing the same game if you believe that

You should probably try out pet sorc. The kind of stuff you can pull off on that spec is somewhat as good as the sorc before the shield nerfs and it has a bit of group utility as well.

LordTareq

Maybe they can add improved targetting to the crown store...

visionality

Alucardo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So is it ranged who are having problems with them, or also pure ST builds?

It'd be nice if tab targeting actually had a use.

Actually it would be super-nice if tab-targeting would force the game to target the tabbed player as long as he's in your line of sight (and you're aiming at him). Thought it would work like that when I started playing the game and was utterly suprised when I realized tab-targeting in ESO is just a highlight function without any real targeting.

visionality

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Yea, I totally agree. I'm playing a magsorc myself in PVP and saw how the nerf-nerf-nerf-madness of ZOS throughout the last two years impoverished the class down to its sad state of today.

Playing a cheese pet sorc and exploiting the targeting weaknesses of ESO is the last ressort for many players who lack the high-end skill to score kills while staying alive with any other setup. Shame it has come down to this.

Alucardo

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

I'm not even sure we're playing the same game if you believe that

You should probably try out pet sorc. The kind of stuff you can pull off on that spec is somewhat as good as the sorc before the shield nerfs and it has a bit of group utility as well.

I've fought them recently. I'm certainly not disagreeing they are strong, and I'd say even stronger than vanilla Sorc. But to call destro/restro sorc "absolute garbage" is going a bit far, hence my comment.

zyk

I'd like it if pets weren't hit with single target abilities unless they are tab targeted.

jcm2606

visionality wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So is it ranged who are having problems with them, or also pure ST builds?

It'd be nice if tab targeting actually had a use.

Actually it would be super-nice if tab-targeting would force the game to target the tabbed player as long as he's in your line of sight (and you're aiming at him). Thought it would work like that when I started playing the game and was utterly suprised when I realized tab-targeting in ESO is just a highlight function without any real targeting.

Nah, as it turns out tab targeting just has a mind of its own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yprAGEEfOPk

PhoenixGrey

visionality wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

Yea, I totally agree. I'm playing a magsorc myself in PVP and saw how the nerf-nerf-nerf-madness of ZOS throughout the last two years impoverished the class down to its sad state of today.

Playing a cheese pet sorc and exploiting the targeting weaknesses of ESO is the last ressort for many players who lack the high-end skill to score kills while staying alive with any other setup. Shame it has come down to this.

TBH, targeting the pet is the last thing I want. I would rather that the pet gets stuck somewhere to avoid the pain in re-summoning it.

I dont even slot atro for the most part. The classic sorc needs a heal, a little more damage and sustain, without which I only see the zoo meta continuing.

PhoenixGrey

Thogard wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

The problem is the classic destro/ restro sorc is absolute garbage and needs to be addressed.

I'm not even sure we're playing the same game if you believe that

Phoenix grey is the highest MMR and most talented mag sorc playing pc NA BGs atm

Thanks dude !
Although I know of a few who might be much better and its just that they rarely play this game

Metemsycosis

I just dbos, soul tether, or eye of the storm the whole lot of them.

Hotdog_23

If or when ZOS decides to try and fight the ZOO problem please don't let involve tab targeting because consoles do not have the luxury of tab targeting.

The most pets I have seen in BG's was 10 on one team, 2 pets and the Maw of the Infernal for 3 sorcs and one bear on the warden. It was not a fair fight in the least.

jcm2606

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

If or when ZOS decides to try and fight the ZOO problem please don't let involve tab targeting because consoles do not have the luxury of tab targeting.

The most pets I have seen in BG's was 10 on one team, 2 pets and the Maw of the Infernal for 3 sorcs and one bear on the warden. It was not a fair fight in the least.

Tab targeting isn't even a solution as it breaks so damn often that it's a liability more often than not. The clip I've been posting is just one example of this, and I literally just captured another clip not a half hour ago of the targeting system just breaking.