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It's time for a change
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.
And it would not change anything. Guilds would just require more weekly sales to be part of them if they are in top markets. Logic prevails.4 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip]
I love this generational projection
Do you have any actual data to back up your rant or are younger people an easy target for your frustrations?
Just to mess with your data, I'm 47. I hate stupid inefficiencies. I hate artificial obstacles placed in the way of functions that should be seamless.
Take this, for example: you go in game interact with the trader on their home turf. Do you get the item right away, since you're standing in front of their merchandise-laden wagon? Nope. You have to travel to some other part of Tamriel, sit through a loading screen. Then, maybe, the trader will mail it to you. Mail. After you were standing right in front of them. Seriously?
How much time and resources are wasted on guild trader bidding wars? How much player gold is shoved into guild fees and donations? How much buyer time is wasted wayshrining all across Tamriel to find an item? How many people have given up on buying and selling altogether because it's a colossal waste of time? How many sales have sellers lost as a result?
Eh, whatever. On the downward slope of life's mountain even arguing this is probably a waste of valuable time. *shakes cane* Get off my lawn
[edited to remove quoted content]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on 7 March 2019 13:513 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭R1ckyDaMan wrote: »I do not use guild traders at all if I can help it, only time I use them is for motif's.
I would rather my gold went into the void than into other players coffers imo.
And yeah, it is annoying trying to find stuff even with the trading website, I was looking for the minotaur helmet motif yesterday, spent about 2 hours going back and forth across tamriel trying to source one, was not fun and still did not get one because all the ones listed on the trading website were not at the actual trader anymore.
That sounds like a failing of TTC, not eso.
You could go to the relevant zone and farm it. Like someone else did before they put it up for sale.
Maybe you're too busy.0 -
mcted123✭I think there are a little too many traders, maybe a way to search multiple traders at once?
But I do think the concept helps the community aspect and is defiantly unique so I'll take it0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
I can break that proposal in about 5 seconds. I post 1 foul hide for 25 million gold. Log to my alt account and buy it. Bam, guild taxes earned and can now be used for the weekly bid.0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.
And it would not change anything. Guilds would just require more weekly sales to be part of them if they are in top markets. Logic prevails.
Ok I’ll explain since this appears to have gone over your head. The gold earned through trader tax goes directly to the guild bank, the same as donations and deposits from players go directly to the guild bank.
You would HAVE to change something that creates a bank exclusively for taxes from which a guild can bid with. There’s no way to differentiate a social guild from a trade guild until they’ve already bid on a trader, so how would someone be allowed to make their first bid?
So your proposal demands a new banking system that must be implemented in every guild in case it becomes a trade guild, and it makes it even harder for new guilds to start up even if they have the funds to do so.
Logic says you didn’t think out any of the consequences to forcing trade taxes into a separate account from which guilds are required to bid from.Edited by Jhalin on 7 March 2019 01:500 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.
And it would not change anything. Guilds would just require more weekly sales to be part of them if they are in top markets. Logic prevails.
Ok I’ll explain since this appears to have gone over your head. The gold earned through trader tax goes directly to the guild bank, the same as donations and deposits from players go directly to the guild bank.
You would HAVE to change something that creates a bank exclusively for taxes from which a guild can bid with. There’s no way to differentiate a social guild from a trade guild until they’ve already bid on a trader, so how would someone be allowed to make their first bid?
So your proposal demands a new banking system that must be implemented in every guild in case it becomes a trade guild, and it makes it even harder for new guilds to start up even if they have the funds to do so.
Logic says you didn’t think out any of the consequences to forcing trade taxes into a separate account from which guilds are required to bid from.
It is you that has missed the mark or do not understand the requirements top trading guilds have as such your "logic" is seriously flawed.
The first and most basic requirement a top trading guild has is a minimum sales requirement.
So it is obvious to most that with your idea the guilds in competitive markets would require a high sales requirement to stay in the guild. They would also be more active in weeding out those that do not meet the requirement and cater more to those They would increase the sales requirement to increase how much was raised by the guild trader.
It really is that simple. Granted, I understand those that do not grasp how trading guilds work might not grasp this.
Edit: Trading guild I am in has a minimum weekly or monthly sales requirement, do not remember which since it is not an issue for me. The requirement is low. Those that do not meet the requirement have to donate. Those that do not measure up are removed as any trading guild that does well will be actively manage. The guild has increased their minimum requirements at least once in the past year. This is typical for trading guilds that do well. it shows the effect your idea would have Lets not live in a vacuum to think changes would have additional effects.Edited by idk on 7 March 2019 04:081 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.
And it would not change anything. Guilds would just require more weekly sales to be part of them if they are in top markets. Logic prevails.
Ok I’ll explain since this appears to have gone over your head. The gold earned through trader tax goes directly to the guild bank, the same as donations and deposits from players go directly to the guild bank.
You would HAVE to change something that creates a bank exclusively for taxes from which a guild can bid with. There’s no way to differentiate a social guild from a trade guild until they’ve already bid on a trader, so how would someone be allowed to make their first bid?
So your proposal demands a new banking system that must be implemented in every guild in case it becomes a trade guild, and it makes it even harder for new guilds to start up even if they have the funds to do so.
Logic says you didn’t think out any of the consequences to forcing trade taxes into a separate account from which guilds are required to bid from.
It is you that has missed the mark or do not understand the requirements top trading guilds have as such your "logic" is seriously flawed.
The first and most basic requirement a top trading guild has is a minimum sales requirement.
So it is obvious to most that with your idea the guilds in competitive markets would require a high sales requirement to stay in the guild. They would also be more active in weeding out those that do not meet the requirement and cater more to those They would increase the sales requirement to increase how much was raised by the guild trader.
It really is that simple. Granted, I understand those that do not grasp how trading guilds work might not grasp this.
I'd like to point out that some of the larger trading guilds even have sister guilds, sometimes started by a senior member with a quota of maybe 1k a week or you buy/sell from the guild. That is far from unreasonable. I've been in guilds with a "bad" location and still made plenty of gold. A legitimate guild usually posts requirements in the recruitment ad AND in the Message of the Day.Edited by D0PAMINE on 7 March 2019 04:100 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I think guilds should only be allowed to sell to guild members to start with and then when they have enough in taxes they can hire a trader, but traders should only ever be hired through taxes earned not from donations ... This will stop the whole over bidding on traders
There’s zero difference between gold earned through taxes and gold that’s donated, it all goes into the guild bank.
And it would not change anything. Guilds would just require more weekly sales to be part of them if they are in top markets. Logic prevails.
Ok I’ll explain since this appears to have gone over your head. The gold earned through trader tax goes directly to the guild bank, the same as donations and deposits from players go directly to the guild bank.
You would HAVE to change something that creates a bank exclusively for taxes from which a guild can bid with. There’s no way to differentiate a social guild from a trade guild until they’ve already bid on a trader, so how would someone be allowed to make their first bid?
So your proposal demands a new banking system that must be implemented in every guild in case it becomes a trade guild, and it makes it even harder for new guilds to start up even if they have the funds to do so.
Logic says you didn’t think out any of the consequences to forcing trade taxes into a separate account from which guilds are required to bid from.
It is you that has missed the mark or do not understand the requirements top trading guilds have as such your "logic" is seriously flawed.
The first and most basic requirement a top trading guild has is a minimum sales requirement.
So it is obvious to most that with your idea the guilds in competitive markets would require a high sales requirement to stay in the guild. They would also be more active in weeding out those that do not meet the requirement and cater more to those They would increase the sales requirement to increase how much was raised by the guild trader.
It really is that simple. Granted, I understand those that do not grasp how trading guilds work might not grasp this.
I'd like to point out that some of the larger trading guilds even have sister guilds, sometimes started by a senior member with a quota of maybe 1k a week or you buy/sell from the guild. That is far from unreasonable. I've been in guilds with a "bad" location and still made plenty of gold. A legitimate guild usually posts requirements in the recruitment ad AND in the Message of the Day.
Oh yes. There are many choices. I have two PvE guilds that often have a trader for the minimum bid. It is far from their focus and no one cares how much you sell, if anything. It does raise some money for the guild that help with raiding.
However my point is that if donations could no longer be accepted for bidding on traders the competitive guilds will strengthen their requirements for sales as they would still remain competitive. To think otherwise is to not understand to begin with.0 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭I'd be down for a global auction house. I was happy with WoW's and I am currently happy with FFXIV & GW2's global auction house systems. As it is, I'm in 3 guilds with traders. The ones in Alinor & Stormhaven do have some dues but they're not exborbitant and you do sell more there than the trader in the middle of nowhere. For players on console, I imagine using traders is an absolute pain. For us PC players we get add-ons because of course, players have to come up with a way to make things more convenient than the original devs' design.2
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Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Androconium wrote: »
This would be excellent but oh wait maybe the person is on console? Either add a npc that replicates the add-on for PS4 or make a global ah since with that add-on you basically have a global ah on PC.1 -
ZOS_Ragnar✭✭✭✭✭We have removed some comments that were not constructive and disruptive. Please keep in mind that on the forums you will often encounter different opinions that you may not agree with. It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree, but we ask that you do not put other people down for their opinions, ideas, or suggestions. In most discussions, there is no right or wrong, just different angles, opinions, and interests.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭phobossion wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »The guild trader system is the main reason that I have no desire to be a GM.
I enjoy being a GM and have in many other games, but I simply don't have the time to do all that is required to maintain a trader in this game. They have made it simply unbearably complex and time consuming.
You know you don't have to start a trading guild, right?
No *** Sherlock. I would LIKE to create a trading guild but it is overly complicated and cumbersome is my point.
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moonsugar66✭✭✭GW2 AH is the best one so far.
Play both ESO and GW2. Every time I return here from GW2 and use the trade system I die inside.
There was a huge argument during ESO beta about an AH system. Funny, all that fear about getting exploited through an AH trade system came to pass anyway. Same ***, just a different delivery method.1 -
Jannisaries✭✭I couldn't disagree with the OP more, on all counts.
First some background. I am in 5 trade guilds and run two accounts. I average 900-1200 sales per week for around 4M gold per week. I have done this for almost two years so i think i have a good handle on the ESO economy. I sell a wide variety of items from crafted furniture to raw mats. I rarely "buy and flip" and I am by no means the most active or lucrative trader. I am not a guild master or even an officer in any of my guilds.
Firstly, I cant say whether selling in zone takes all day as I have never considered doing that. I list stuff in a trade guild and if it doesn't sell in 10 days I relist at a different price or in another store. Or perhaps the "all day" part is an exaggeration?
Trade guilds blind bid every week for their spot. This costs gold. For premium cities such as Mourhold and Rawl it is millions. Secondary and tertiary markets are also very expensive. Trade guilds fund this weekly cost by levying dues, setting selling minimums, having raffles and conducting auctions of donated merchandise or some combination of these. When you list an item for sale a 1% listing fee is charged and that gold disappears, the guild does not get it. (There is a post somewhere from ZoS that says this fee is refunded on sale but this is false, anyway I digress).
In addition, a 7% tax is levied on your sale, half of which (3.5%) goes to the guild. The other half disappears. Part of the reason for the tax is for its anti-inflationary benefits. In the absence of taxation (and the weekly trade guild bids) the game economy will experience significant inflation, You don't want that.
For a guild to raise 1M gold for a bid, it needs to sell 28M. Each guild only has room for 500 members. Even if every single member was active they would each need to sell 56k worth of stuff. You can see then that many guilds who face large bid costs have to have minimum selling quotas. Inactive players are removed from guilds to make room for players who are active and want to sell.
This being said, there are many trade guilds that operate quite successfully in smaller markets and have no dues or selling minimums. One of my guilds is like this. But, not every thing will sell for more than vendor prices, no matter where the trader is located. Non-set gear is an example.
My only other experience with MMO markets was WoW and it does not bring back happy memories. If you found the Uber Battleaxe of Awesomeness and ran to the AH to sell it, you would look up how many others are listed and list your for less than everyone else. After several days you go back to the AH and discover that nine other peeps have done the same thing so you have to cancel your listing and relist cheaper than those guys. This "race to the bottom" is not fun.
In ESO, you can still be undercut by your guildies but there are a lot fewer of them that the entire game community so it isn't nearly as bad. Also, most traders use addons to gauge market prices and list accordingly, without reference to current listings.
I remember the AH bots in WoW. I don't know if they still have them (I stopped playing after MoP). You would often see the bots parked to the left of the door to the AH in Stormwind (I cant remember where the bots were in Hordeville, sorry). These bots would auto-purchase items priced below a pre-set limit, and relist at a higher price. Also, they would buy stacks of items and relist them as single items. If you wanted to buy a bunch of potions for your next raid you would have to scroll through page after page of overpriced singles to get to a reasonably priced multi-stack. I understand that these bots infect central AH's in other games but I have not seen this for myself.
Just to be clear, guilds don't have an "iron-grip" on pricing. They just don't. Guild masters are too busy doing darn near anything else to worry about what is selling and for how much. What they are concerned with is total sales. Period. If anyone told me I was selling for too low a price or too high, I would tell them to get stuffed, then list tons of stuff for a low low price just to be a B^&ch.
With regard to restricting trade guilds to only selling "crafted or rare items", who is to say what "rare" means. If Alcast designs a build for vMA that includes the Beekeepers set from Greenshade, you bet it will become "rare" in a heartbeat. Who then tells trade guilds they can sell that?. This is moot in any event as having an AH would insta-kill trade guilds.
Enough about guilds, lets tackle to 450mph farmers. Pricing is determined by two factors, supply and demand. Farmers (yes I have one, although I don't use her very much anymore) zip around the country side harvesting everything they see. What they harvest increases the available supply, thereby providing downward pressure on prices. For the 2 or 3 minutes after a farmer has come by the "false sense of rarity" the OP mentioned may exist for a local viewer but this has zero effect of prices. If they didn't respawn in a few minutes I suppose this perceived rarity would be more common but fortunately for us the nodes respawn. Always.
A suggested improvement is a more robust Listing service similar to Tamriel Trade Centre. TTC works but has its flaws which results in frustration for buyers when they visit stores only to find the item they want is not there.
TLDR: suck it up, it isn't that long, just read it.1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GW2 AH is the best one so far.
Oh gods, yes. Sell on the fly to empty your inventory instantly-- with a handy-dandy right click menu option. A little magical birdie, envelope, whatever flies your item away for immersion's sake. Pick up your items/gold instantly in a major city. List items above the insta-buy price, or just dump things off to buyers instantly with price protection-- automatic filters ensure you'll never lose vs. selling to vendors *sigh*
But even the crappiest, kludgiest mess of an auction house--SWTOR's GTN-- is more efficient than the antiquated mess in this game. Plus, those systems enable any player to participate in the economy, unlike the clique system in this game.
Edited by jainiadral on 8 March 2019 22:192