Lore time - Altmer

Lord-Otto

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please pass it along to the one responsible for the lore you gave. No offense, I really assume good intentions, but that person is plain wrong.

TelvanniWizard

Altmer and lore have never been friends in ESO.

Lord-Otto

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Altmer and lore have never been friends in ESO.

Well, I guess you can excuse a small retcon here and there to fit into MMO mechanics. But this here is so big and handled so poorly, I needed to point it out.

Razorback174

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

Give it up man. They're clearly not listening.

Altmer are now all about being stamina users and Bosmer have never had any attachment to stealth at all.

Besides, it's not like lore was one of the reasons anyone even bothered playing an Elder Scrolls game in the first place, is it?

Claudman

The racial passives aren't lore. lol
It's gameplay.

Stop using lore as a crutch, just say that the passives are bad because they are.

Lord-Otto

Razorback174 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

Give it up man. They're clearly not listening.

Altmer are now all about being stamina users and Bosmer have never had any attachment to stealth at all.

Besides, it's not like lore was one of the reasons anyone even bothered playing an Elder Scrolls game in the first place, is it?

x'D
Well, I really do believe someone had a good intention answering our lore concerns with creating new lore to fit Spellcharge in. It just horribly failed, solved nothing and is more like an insult now.
I wouldn't have touched the game with a ten-foot pole if it didn't have "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

Lord-Otto

Claudman wrote: »

The racial passives aren't lore. lol
It's gameplay.

Stop using lore as a crutch, just say that the passives are bad because they are.

It's lore but also FEEL that plays the big part here. Lore-wise, Altmer are very specialized for magic, and that's also represented in their racials. It's why people like me picked them, to have the feel of a pure destructive caster. And that is something usually represented in RPG gameplay. ESO is butchering that right now.

Claudman

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

The racial passives aren't lore. lol
It's gameplay.

Stop using lore as a crutch, just say that the passives are bad because they are.

It's lore but also FEEL that plays the big part here. Lore-wise, Altmer are very specialized for magic, and that's also represented in their racials. It's why people like me picked them, to have the feel of a pure destructive caster. And that is something usually represented in RPG gameplay. ESO is butchering that right now.

Lorewise, Altmer can also be Battlemages, Nightblades,Spellswords and a myriad of classes which utilize stamina as well as magicka.

The problem is, the passives they're trying to implement into ESO don't work in ESO since HYBRIDS don't work in ESO. It's not that they're lore-friendly or not, since you could argue that...But, even then they're gameplay stats so they have no hold over the lore when the strongest mages in Tamriel aren't even Altmer.

I get what irks you about it, but lore isn't the reason why it's bad, my guy. It's because it's bad fundamentally and doesn't work with ESO's non-hybrid MMO gameplay. It would work better in a singleplayer TES.

Lord-Otto

Claudman wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

The racial passives aren't lore. lol
It's gameplay.

Stop using lore as a crutch, just say that the passives are bad because they are.

It's lore but also FEEL that plays the big part here. Lore-wise, Altmer are very specialized for magic, and that's also represented in their racials. It's why people like me picked them, to have the feel of a pure destructive caster. And that is something usually represented in RPG gameplay. ESO is butchering that right now.

Lorewise, Altmer can also be Battlemages, Nightblades,Spellswords and a myriad of classes which utilize stamina as well as magicka.

The problem is, the passives they're trying to implement into ESO don't work in ESO since HYBRIDS don't work in ESO. It's not that they're lore-friendly or not, since you could argue that...But, even then they're gameplay stats so they have no hold over the lore when the strongest mages in Tamriel aren't even Altmer.

I get what irks you about it, but lore isn't the reason why it's bad, my guy. It's because it's bad fundamentally and doesn't work with ESO's non-hybrid MMO gameplay. It would work better in a singleplayer TES.

It actually works somewhat for PvP. Useless for PvE, although I can think of a way to make it useful.

But it's really the feel/lore. Altmer have specialized magic racials. I'm always carrying a blade in the TES games, but the support for it comes from OUTSIDE. It's not supported by the racials.
In fact, Altmer actually can make great sword fighters. With their long lives, they have the time to perfect fencing. Which takes us back to the nonsensical efficiency "lore". But that's practice (and honestly very Mary Sue-ish), and not a racial trait. Altmer are born with magic in their crib, not a sword.

But I get your point. Hybrid stats should come from sets and not be forced upon you from the get go. Shacklebreaker is cool, Spellcharge is not.

Ogou

Altmer are about perfection though, not effectiveness. The path to alaxon seems to be all about mastery and I don't think wasted effort would fit that.

As for the feel, I think the issue is that you're looking at the passive as a stamina return instead of a lower ressource return (it's a small but important difference).

Lord-Otto

Ogou wrote: »

Altmer are about perfection though, not effectiveness. The path to alaxon seems to be all about mastery and I don't think wasted effort would fit that.

As for the feel, I think the issue is that you're looking at the passive as a stamina return instead of a lower ressource return (it's a small but important difference).

It's stamina return, always will be. You're using High Elves for magic builds.

Well, perfection and effectiveness are quite the same. You could argue that perfection is both effectiveness and efficiency combined, which I could agree on, somewhat. But it's stated directly in the lore that Altmer don't really care about efficiency and instead use their time on achieving the most sophisticated, uh, everything, really.

Bruccius

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please pass it along to the one responsible for the lore you gave. No offense, I really assume good intentions, but that person is plain wrong.

Where does your idea come from that the Altmer do not care about being efficient? They care for perfection, something which isn't efficient isn't perfect.

The idea that ''Summerset has houses looking like insect wings'' has already been void to anyone who has paid attention to the content even prior to ESO.

''A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It looking like ''insect wings'' is flowery language. What was described by Reman's Emissaries matches what we see pretty well. Also, it makes sense for the High Elves of Cyrodiil's heartland (the Ayleids) to have an architecture similar to that of the Altmer.

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that most of the Imperial arts are derived from the Altmer; and we barely see any ''insect wings'' with that culture. But their cathedrals? Those seem pretty similar to Altmer architecture.

I recommend paying more attention to the lore before you accuse ZOS of breaking it.

Ogou

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Altmer are about perfection though, not effectiveness. The path to alaxon seems to be all about mastery and I don't think wasted effort would fit that.

As for the feel, I think the issue is that you're looking at the passive as a stamina return instead of a lower ressource return (it's a small but important difference).

It's stamina return, always will be. You're using High Elves for magic builds.

Well, perfection and effectiveness are quite the same. You could argue that perfection is both effectiveness and efficiency combined, which I could agree on, somewhat. But it's stated directly in the lore that Altmer don't really care about efficiency and instead use their time on achieving the most sophisticated, uh, everything, really.

No, it won't. A friend of mine is playing as a Battlereeve. He's an Altmer stamsorc and he's getting magicka back from the passive. To think that everyone who plays Altmer is playing a magicka build is quite narrow minded.

I don't remember seeing anywhere that Altmer do not care about efficiency. Might be remembering it wrong though.

Claudman

Bruccius wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please pass it along to the one responsible for the lore you gave. No offense, I really assume good intentions, but that person is plain wrong.

Where does your idea come from that the Altmer do not care about being efficient? They care for perfection, something which isn't efficient isn't perfect.

The idea that ''Summerset has houses looking like insect wings'' has already been void to anyone who has paid attention to the content even prior to ESO.

''A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It looking like ''insect wings'' is flowery language. What was described by Reman's Emissaries matches what we see pretty well. Also, it makes sense for the High Elves of Cyrodiil's heartland (the Ayleids) to have an architecture similar to that of the Altmer.

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that most of the Imperial arts are derived from the Altmer; and we barely see any ''insect wings'' with that culture. But their cathedrals? Those seem pretty similar to Altmer architecture.

I recommend paying more attention to the lore before you accuse ZOS of breaking it.

Correct and besides buildings of Malachite?

Imagine the expenses...Malachite isn't a cheap material, it's like if the White-Gold Tower was made out of Ebony. It's very expensive to maintain and even make in the first place. The Altmer are rich, but they aren't literally made out of gold. The original description of the Altmeri province was also very dated and just didn't fit into the general aesthetic of the Elder Scrolls. It sounded like it were plucked straight out of LoTR or D&D (which would make more sense considering the game's roots).

I'm honestly glad they abandoned the 'insect wings' since it just sounded too goofy and whimsical. After seeing the Ancient Falmer buildings in Dawnguard, that's how I expected Altmer and Ancient Aldmeri buildings to look.

Steelshiv

Does anyone else find it funny that the lore explaination for regaining stamina with spell recharge is basically "it's magic. I ain't gotta explain ***." I did and had a good laugh yesterday in Cyrodiil.

Lord-Otto

Ogou wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Altmer are about perfection though, not effectiveness. The path to alaxon seems to be all about mastery and I don't think wasted effort would fit that.

As for the feel, I think the issue is that you're looking at the passive as a stamina return instead of a lower ressource return (it's a small but important difference).

It's stamina return, always will be. You're using High Elves for magic builds.

Well, perfection and effectiveness are quite the same. You could argue that perfection is both effectiveness and efficiency combined, which I could agree on, somewhat. But it's stated directly in the lore that Altmer don't really care about efficiency and instead use their time on achieving the most sophisticated, uh, everything, really.

No, it won't. A friend of mine is playing as a Battlereeve. He's an Altmer stamsorc and he's getting magicka back from the passive. To think that everyone who plays Altmer is playing a magicka build is quite narrow minded.

I don't remember seeing anywhere that Altmer do not care about efficiency. Might be remembering it wrong though.

I mean, what do you want me to say now? An Altmer stamsorc... I mean, reflect on that for a bit. And you call me narrow-minded? *shrugs*

Lord-Otto

Bruccius wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, ZOS gave us a lore explanation about Spellcharge restoring stamina with alteration magic because that emphasizes Altmer's "knack for efficiency".
Here's the thing: they don't care about efficiency.

High Elves live longer. That's why they don't have to be efficient. They can afford to be EFFECTIVE. Meaning they strive for perfection. If something takes a while longer, they go for it and son't cut corners for efficiency. Summerset is said to host houses looking like glass and insect wings because of that.

*sigh*
Maybe ZOS had good intentions giving us lore to justify that lore-breaking racial. But they still failed and broke the lore even further. This is literally rubbing salt in the wound. But it also paints a very bad picture of how ZOS are handling Bethesda's legacy.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please pass it along to the one responsible for the lore you gave. No offense, I really assume good intentions, but that person is plain wrong.

Where does your idea come from that the Altmer do not care about being efficient? They care for perfection, something which isn't efficient isn't perfect.

The idea that ''Summerset has houses looking like insect wings'' has already been void to anyone who has paid attention to the content even prior to ESO.

''A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It looking like ''insect wings'' is flowery language. What was described by Reman's Emissaries matches what we see pretty well. Also, it makes sense for the High Elves of Cyrodiil's heartland (the Ayleids) to have an architecture similar to that of the Altmer.

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that most of the Imperial arts are derived from the Altmer; and we barely see any ''insect wings'' with that culture. But their cathedrals? Those seem pretty similar to Altmer architecture.

I recommend paying more attention to the lore before you accuse ZOS of breaking it.

So your point is insect wings are an exaggeration? Well, that was discussed with Summerset release. While insect wings might have been hyoerbolic, the generic grey stone ZOS use everywhere certainly is far from it. Although I can live with Alinor, it does look quite nice.

The important point you ignored is that Altmer can build for the perfect result. Like the Sistine Chapel. They have time and don't need to rush. Therefore they can achieve the maximum outcome. That's what you define under effectiveness, not efficiency.

Sekt_Tiberlus

Altmer-related lore is like "ooga booga!". Pretentious stupidity. They are boring. Only one true racial and lore-friendly feature ZOS should add to them - vulnerability to magic from TES III.

Claudman

Sekt_Tiberlus wrote: »

Altmer-related lore is like "ooga booga!". Pretentious stupidity. They are boring. Only one true racial and lore-friendly feature ZOS should add to them - vulnerability to magic from TES III.

Oof

But, I like elves...

Lord-Otto

Sekt_Tiberlus wrote: »

Altmer-related lore is like "ooga booga!". Pretentious stupidity. They are boring. Only one true racial and lore-friendly feature ZOS should add to them - vulnerability to magic from TES III.

Along with the 150% additional max magicka multiplier? I'm in!

Ogou

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Altmer are about perfection though, not effectiveness. The path to alaxon seems to be all about mastery and I don't think wasted effort would fit that.

As for the feel, I think the issue is that you're looking at the passive as a stamina return instead of a lower ressource return (it's a small but important difference).

It's stamina return, always will be. You're using High Elves for magic builds.

Well, perfection and effectiveness are quite the same. You could argue that perfection is both effectiveness and efficiency combined, which I could agree on, somewhat. But it's stated directly in the lore that Altmer don't really care about efficiency and instead use their time on achieving the most sophisticated, uh, everything, really.

No, it won't. A friend of mine is playing as a Battlereeve. He's an Altmer stamsorc and he's getting magicka back from the passive. To think that everyone who plays Altmer is playing a magicka build is quite narrow minded.

I don't remember seeing anywhere that Altmer do not care about efficiency. Might be remembering it wrong though.

I mean, what do you want me to say now? An Altmer stamsorc... I mean, reflect on that for a bit. And you call me narrow-minded? *shrugs*

Might I remind you that you started this discussion in the Lore section? Could you explain to me lore-wise what's wrong with an Altmer stamsorc? I'm guessing Mornyalemar shouldn't exist either according to you.

So yes, discarding other people's playstyles because they're different from yours does make you narrow minded.

Also, we're still waiting on where you idea that Altmer don't care about efficiency comes from.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

If you're not efficient in a fight you're dead. Then it doesn't really matter how long your natural lifespan is.