Why have you nerfed master writs?

LadySinflower

Sorry if I'm hijacking the post, but I have a question. What determines the type/value of the master writs you receive? Is it all RNG? I only get master writs on one character because I've only been playing long enough to level one up. When she gets a master writ it's usually for less than ten vouchers. Occasionally she gets one for up to 20 but that's rare. Yet I see in the guild store writs for over 100 vouchers. Is it RNG or does it matter how many styles I know or how many alchemy ingredients I've fully researched (or something similar)? Thanks.

tmbrinks

Your chance of getting a master writ is based upon...

* Full purple motif knowledge for Blacksmithing/Woodworking/Clothing (trait knowledge also plays a role with these)
* Number of fully researched traits for Alchemy
* Number of fully learned translations for Enchanting
* Number of purple and gold recipes for Provisioning
* Number of traits researched for Jewelry

The amount you get off a master writ is completely random

About 90-95%% of them are for between 5-7 (for BS/WW/Cloth), the other 5-10% are for higher amounts that can vary drastically (from 18 for a epic nirn armor, to 400+ for a legendary nirn weapon in a rare style)

FlopsyPrince

I don't think I have gotten a Master Writ good for more than 5 on anything other than jewelry, which are worthless as jewelry is.

The goal of getting something after making those is a LONG ways off for me. I have 1 crafter at max levels, but even she still has researching to make the poor Master Writs I have gotten in most cases.

Pops_ND_Irish

No issues here !

Reivax

My character knows 52 full motifs, and has all points in all crafting skills, and I have ESO+ (added: this character also has 9 traits in everything, incl jewelcrafting)

I don't keep track, but I can only remember one time recently when I had a master writ that was more than the standard 5-7 writ value.
I only do writs on one of my characters.

However... I could probably outfit a guild house with attuned crafting stations with just the jewelry crafting writs I've received and destroyed.

stitchesofdooom

yeah, could do it with the ones I've destroyed alone.

LadySinflower

tmbrinks wrote: »

Your chance of getting a master writ is based upon...

* Full purple motif knowledge for Blacksmithing/Woodworking/Clothing (trait knowledge also plays a role with these)
* Number of fully researched traits for Alchemy
* Number of fully learned translations for Enchanting
* Number of purple and gold recipes for Provisioning
* Number of traits researched for Jewelry

The amount you get off a master writ is completely random

About 90-95%% of them are for between 5-7 (for BS/WW/Cloth), the other 5-10% are for higher amounts that can vary drastically (from 18 for a epic nirn armor, to 400+ for a legendary nirn weapon in a rare style)

Thank you for that explanation! 😺

Merlight

tmbrinks wrote: »

I'm just trying to figure out how they'd come up with the chance to drop, so that it's always increasing, but not going to infinity as we get many more motifs, as that'd be game breaking. Maybe a reciprocal function where the incremental change gets smaller the more motifs that you have?

. . . . . . . . . . n
Perhaps k * Σ (1/n)
. . . . . . . . . . i=0

where k is some constant, and n is the number of motifs that you know. Thus diminishing returns, but always increasing. (Periods are there for spacing... stupid forum text editor)

edit: my first response was to me reading (1/n) and thinking (1/i), I should've read more carefully (although I think that's what you meant by diminishing returns.

What you wrote equals (k * (n+1) / n), and that thing decreases as you learn more motifs.

And unless the 1 blue racial everyone knows counts, new character gets ERROR: division by zero!

tmbrinks

Merlight wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I'm just trying to figure out how they'd come up with the chance to drop, so that it's always increasing, but not going to infinity as we get many more motifs, as that'd be game breaking. Maybe a reciprocal function where the incremental change gets smaller the more motifs that you have?

. . . . . . . . . . n
Perhaps k * Σ (1/n)
. . . . . . . . . . i=0

where k is some constant, and n is the number of motifs that you know. Thus diminishing returns, but always increasing. (Periods are there for spacing... stupid forum text editor)

edit: my first response was to me reading (1/n) and thinking (1/i), I should've read more carefully (although I think that's what you meant by diminishing returns.

What you wrote equals (k * (n+1) / n), and that thing decreases as you learn more motifs.

And unless the 1 blue racial everyone knows counts, new character gets ERROR: division by zero!

Yeah, I was just quickly trying to think how it could be structured so that the probability of getting a master writ doesn't eventually go to infinity, but also that the chance that you get one is always increasing as they continue to add more and more to the loot table.

My thought was that there might be a base chance of getting a master writ. (Based on my alt account, who knows almost NO purple motifs on the characters, it seems to be around 4-5%), then there was some chance added that was a function like this.

I was thinking that perhaps the first purple motif you learned increased the rate of drops by say 0.5% (1/20), the next you learn increases it by 0.33% (1/30), then 0.25% (1/40), then 0.2% (1/50) maybe something like that, so that while the function is always increasing since you are adding more and more motif knowledge, you are getting diminishing returns for each "new" one that you learn.

Merlight

tmbrinks wrote: »

I was thinking that perhaps the first purple motif you learned increased the rate of drops by say 0.5% (1/20), the next you learn increases it by 0.33% (1/30), then 0.25% (1/40), then 0.2% (1/50) maybe something like that, so that while the function is always increasing since you are adding more and more motif knowledge, you are getting diminishing returns for each "new" one that you learn.

That's basically



with k=1/100 if we're going by that 0.5% (which is 1/200) increase for the first learned motif.

But this sum goes to infinity as n goes to infinity.

Despite how much fun math is, there's also a game design perspective one needs to consider. Making this year's newest motifs worth less (now) than last year's newest motifs (in their time) doesn't sound like the most compelling strategy. Instead older motifs should be "devalued" (their contribution to master writ chance decreased) -- for early adopters they've paid their dividends over time, and for late adopters they're more easily obtainable.

tmbrinks

Merlight wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I was thinking that perhaps the first purple motif you learned increased the rate of drops by say 0.5% (1/20), the next you learn increases it by 0.33% (1/30), then 0.25% (1/40), then 0.2% (1/50) maybe something like that, so that while the function is always increasing since you are adding more and more motif knowledge, you are getting diminishing returns for each "new" one that you learn.

That's basically



with k=1/100 if we're going by that 0.5% (which is 1/200) increase for the first learned motif.

But this sum goes to infinity as n goes to infinity.

Despite how much fun math is, there's also a game design perspective one needs to consider. Making this year's newest motifs worth less (now) than last year's newest motifs (in their time) doesn't sound like the most compelling strategy. Instead older motifs should be "devalued" (their contribution to master writ chance decreased) -- for early adopters they've paid their dividends over time, and for late adopters they're more easily obtainable.

I messed up the fractions... lol... hadn't had my coffee yet. Yes, this limit does go to infinity, but very, very slowly.

I'm pretty sure that ZoS has stated on record that they have diminishing returns on the drop chances based on the number of motifs that you have. But it doesn't matter which motif it is. You could learn Elder Argonian as your first full motif, and it'd have the same effect as learning Daedric on another character. Each motif isn't assigned a specific value of "i" in this case, but they just iterate i when you learn a new "full" motif to count towards your master writ chance.

This way, you still aren't devaluing the new players who are just learning them, as it will be easy for them in improve their chances, regardless of the motifs you are learning.

DaveMoeDee

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

Since the addition of Jewelry Crafting, Blacksmith, Woodwork and Clothier master writs have become fewer and 99% of them are only rewarding 7 vouchers. I have 2 theories:

1: you have nerfed armour/weapon master writs.
2: you have nerfed armour/weapon master writs for non-subscribers.

If it's 1, this is horribly unfair and needs to be rectified immerdiately.
If it's 2, this is disgusting behaviour, needs to be rectified immediately, and whoever made the decision needs to be utterly ashamed of their greed.

If you're going to disagree with me, please also tell me if you sub or not.

Please show your math on the 99% claim.

Since you are talking about drop rates, actual numbers matter.

DaveMoeDee

tmbrinks wrote: »

Screenshot of the master writs in Woodworking/Blacksmithing/Clothing I've received over the last 4 days of doing writs on 27 characters.

Yeah, but what did it subjectively feel like?

stitchesofdooom

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Screenshot of the master writs in Woodworking/Blacksmithing/Clothing I've received over the last 4 days of doing writs on 27 characters.

Yeah, but what did it subjectively feel like?

Actually we have already established that they HAVE nerfed it. They changed the drop increace from [per motif learned] to [if you have all motifs] in a patch a while back. They definitely HAVE made it more of a grind.

tmbrinks

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Screenshot of the master writs in Woodworking/Blacksmithing/Clothing I've received over the last 4 days of doing writs on 27 characters.

Yeah, but what did it subjectively feel like?

Actually we have already established that they HAVE nerfed it. They changed the drop increace from [per motif learned] to [if you have all motifs] in a patch a while back. They definitely HAVE made it more of a grind.

No, they haven't. This is not true.

disintegr8

From the start of Master Writs it was specified that you need to own all pages of a Motif for that style to count towards your 'increased chance'. This has never been changed as far as I know.

While I no longer do daily writs every day, I still get my fair share of 70-120 voucher MW's but it has been a long time since I got a 200+ voucher (non jewelry) MW. Not sure if this is due to a nerf or just RNG but I do writs more for the surveys than anything else.

When I do daily writs, I do max level writs on 8 characters and believe that doing them every day gets best results. As soon as you skip days, or skip characters, or do 3 writs today, 6 writs tomorrow, you can practically throw any drop rate comparisons out the window.

Merlight

disintegr8 wrote: »

When I do daily writs, I do max level writs on 8 characters and believe that doing them every day gets best results. As soon as you skip days, or skip characters, or do 3 writs today, 6 writs tomorrow, you can practically throw any drop rate comparisons out the window.

Are you insinuating that ESO RNG is moody?

SoLooney

disintegr8 wrote: »

From the start of Master Writs it was specified that you need to own all pages of a Motif for that style to count towards your 'increased chance'. This has never been changed as far as I know.

While I no longer do daily writs every day, I still get my fair share of 70-120 voucher MW's but it has been a long time since I got a 200+ voucher (non jewelry) MW. Not sure if this is due to a nerf or just RNG but I do writs more for the surveys than anything else.

When I do daily writs, I do max level writs on 8 characters and believe that doing them every day gets best results. As soon as you skip days, or skip characters, or do 3 writs today, 6 writs tomorrow, you can practically throw any drop rate comparisons out the window.

Why would skipping a day or more impact your chance of master writs? Zos has never mentioned consecutive days of writ completions would increase the chances

Your chances would obviously increase if you do writs every on as many toons as you can. I have all 15 toons with 50 in blacksmithing, clothing, woodworking, 5 have jewelry lvl 50. One is a master crafter with all 9 traits researched, and all motifs learned except for huntsman. The others are slowly getting their 8 traits (not bothering with nirnhoned as I'm not tryna drop money on it just yet) and know the full purple books like primal and ancient elf.

Sad to say, my main crafter does not get the most writs and the writs he did get were baby ones, 6 or 7. Every 1 to 3 days, my other 14 char usually get a 70 plus one, without knowing a lot of motifs and not that many traits learned either

It's been pretty random, but if you want a lot of mw, I suggest, getting whatever toons you have to lvl 50 in crafting and start researching traits

Good luck deconing thousands of items though 😂