Vivec is utter garbage

Ruckly

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

FWIW Fengrush plays sotha to pick on terrible AD there. Gotta create content not get beat.

Hashtag knows pretty well. He had a good run there on AD but he's been rolled over enough to know better than come back and try to fight on sotha anymore.

Because that's what a healthy pvp environment should promote. Never coming back! Well said.

The best fps pvp games are the ones you hate. e.g. Crysis 2 hated it never coming back. Played it again and again. This because I hated it and wanted to beat it? I jumped up a couple plateaus it still made me angry still played it. If cyrodill pvp lacks something it is something to hate specifically that is tangible and makes you not want to come back. Lag and disconnect aren't something you can overcome by sheer force of will so they count for nothing. I heard there is going to be a battle royal implemented so maybe the anger of losing a 64 man free-for-all after 15 minutes of ducking and dodging will glue people to pvp.

Neoauspex

Voluntary relegation. Vivec is the premier league.

Minalan

When Vivec skills stop working, it's time to queue into another campaign.

Minalan

When Vivec skills stop working, it's time to queue into another campaign.

zyk

I don't know anything about the current state of no CP, but the tank meta as implemented on Vivec is pretty terrible.

I don't blame players at all though and I think no CP would be just as bad with the same players who are just building intelligently. I think ZOS has just badly messed up their game with OP sets and power creep.

I've been choosing to run squishy lately to buck the trend. It's a lot more fun than the heavy armor builds I ran over the summer.

rabidmyers

ikr

GeneralSezme

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

FWIW Fengrush plays sotha to pick on terrible AD there. Gotta create content not get beat.

Hashtag knows pretty well. He had a good run there on AD but he's been rolled over enough to know better than come back and try to fight on sotha anymore.

Most players know better they not to come to sotha during prime time and while you are streaming, the lag you cause is just as bad as Army of the Pact on Vivec at times, and "rolling" people over is as laughable as @_Crow tbagging a small man after his 60 chases

Edirt_seliv

The only good thing about sotha was the vieos morostyle was able to make while playing there.

LegacyDM

Edirt_seliv wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Godspeed wrote: »

Excluding the lag. A lot of people just can’t handle playing at the varsity level. Instead they refer to stay junior varsity for life on the no cp campaign.

Uh huh. CP is junior varsity. CP=crutch for tank meta because people don't know how to stay alive...the only reason Zos doesn't abandon CP is because they want casuals to feel powerful rather than work to stay alive in no cp.

Troll harder.

Let me get this straight. Your OP stated that you tried Vivec, found it too hard to win fights, then left Vivec to go to sotha because it was easier to win fights, then proceeded to call Vivec the junior varsity?

I'm making a case that's is more balanced. Not easier.

LegacyDM

amir412 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

No wonder some of the big names like @FENGRUSH are back on sotha. CP is just cancer. Tank meta and ttk is just rediculous. In addition to the lag being awful. Zos, just do us all a favor and just can CP pvp. Keep CP in pve. Rework it to make the pve more challenging, but for the love of all things holy just get rid of it for pvp. You can separate it and balance pvp separately from pve rather than trying to do this 3 way balancing juggle fest. Pvp Plaers will adapt. Pve players won't care. Find a way to reward pvp players for having CP. I don't know, make it a cosmetic thing like gw2. More CPs you have in pvp the better looking armor you earn. Or free crown crates or potions. Your smart I'm sure you can think of something... Or maybe not... If you can't listen to the community.

It's asinine. I came back from a break in the game and I tickle people in Vivec. Went to sotha and can actually damage people. It's like night and day and more satisfying. I actually do damage and have to be more strategic about resources which is challenging in is own right. On Vivec you just spam skills over and over to no effect. DKs, Templars, wardens, unkillable. Especially in ball groups. It's garbage.

If you are right, then why Vivec is more popular than Sotha?
Sorry, but i wouldnt take any example from Fengrush.
From what you wrote, it sounds like you went Vivec with ur bad noCP build that can nuke noobs with proc sets/cheese/bleeds, and youre just mad cuz pepole in CP can actually counter that kind of crap.

Because casuals can't let go of their precious CPs. That's why it's more popular. Oh I spent 250 days not hours farming CPs why should I give them up? Look I've got 365+ days logged in this game since launch. That's a whole year of play time. Not hours. I've spent a ton of time farming for CPs. But you know what? It doesn't work. All these nay Sayers in this thread just don't want to admit and face the reality that it's borked. Which is why ZOS is re-evaluating it.

LegacyDM

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I think I saw you last night around blood. Welcome back. I think you play a ranged mag nb. Bad news. It's in a difficult spot. And there are some metas flying around that make life even more difficult. I took a long break too. Problem is that there really is no other pvp game like this one on the market. I do hope they get a handle on the server performance. They did say they have plans to try and address it. Maybe we will have quantum computing by then and it will be ok?

Hey man! Thanks. Yeah you got me with a couple good stealth ganks . It just sucks that to do decent damage in Vivec one absolute has to depend on caluurions legacy. In sotha there is better build diversity. Don't need to rely on that burst proc set to be competative.

Godspeed

LegacyDM wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I think I saw you last night around blood. Welcome back. I think you play a ranged mag nb. Bad news. It's in a difficult spot. And there are some metas flying around that make life even more difficult. I took a long break too. Problem is that there really is no other pvp game like this one on the market. I do hope they get a handle on the server performance. They did say they have plans to try and address it. Maybe we will have quantum computing by then and it will be ok?

Hey man! Thanks. Yeah you got me with a couple good stealth ganks . It just sucks that to do decent damage in Vivec one absolute has to depend on caluurions legacy. In sotha there is better build diversity. Don't need to rely on that burst proc set to be competative.

You do have a point there. Proc sets should have never been put into the game in the first place. Or anything that automates gameplay which is what proc sets do.

Murador178

LegacyDM wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I think I saw you last night around blood. Welcome back. I think you play a ranged mag nb. Bad news. It's in a difficult spot. And there are some metas flying around that make life even more difficult. I took a long break too. Problem is that there really is no other pvp game like this one on the market. I do hope they get a handle on the server performance. They did say they have plans to try and address it. Maybe we will have quantum computing by then and it will be ok?

Hey man! Thanks. Yeah you got me with a couple good stealth ganks . It just sucks that to do decent damage in Vivec one absolute has to depend on caluurions legacy. In sotha there is better build diversity. Don't need to rely on that burst proc set to be competative.

I think the best amount of Cp was smth around 400. With the amount of the CPs we have everybody is running like the same setup on same classes. Buffing the 75/120 CP passives and setting CP down to 400 would increase variety and make CP smth to think about again.

The problem with vivec is the lag and nothing else. Non Cp campaigns encourage using proc sets and other cheesy stuff. So u can just decide for urself the lesser evil...

Kadoin

I honestly only go to Vivec these days to use my PvE builds or troll ones...

Everyone in Vivec is a healer (thanks to CP).

NeoXanthus

I am reading this post and I guess I don’t understand if Vivec is garbage as written by you @LegacyDM main point because of the CP then please don’t play it. For the rest of us that like the additional complexity of a slow reward system based off dedication over time aka CP we enjoy playing Vivec. No, it is not instant gratification and if you don’t allocate your own 810 caped CP correctly, have sets made for your play style and class, drink or eat the right food, have the right poisons, animation cancel correctly, know when you have been outclassed and sneak away. Still then you might get your arses handed to you but over time with some dedication you might also get very good and when that happens you might really enjoy Vivec.

MalagenR

This thread is gold.

Syhae

No CP isn't even balanced lol.
Proc sets reign supreme in no CP. Nightblades are even stronger in no CP than they are in CP. Where is the balance? That might have been an argument a long time ago but that isn't the case now.

The only thing no CP does is make sustain impossible because of lower max stats, lower regen and insanely expensive skills. Heals and damage also scale poorly because of there not being any CP modifiers.

What youre left with is an environment where it doesn't makes sense to build damage because your damage barely scales, always having poor sustain and self healing being horrible.

As a result debuffs, DoTs and /defile/ tankiness are insanely strong.

BG's are covered in healers and Ice Wardens now, why? It's easier and more effective to outlast your opponent and wearing them down through ice snares draining their stamina and defiles as they slowly die to the abysmally small damage you do. Don't need to hit hard if you outsustain your opponent and their healing is so bad they can't outheal your 2.5k shalks.

No CP isn't balanced at all. The only thing it's good at is highlighting the broken mechanics in PvP

Aliyavana

Godspeed wrote: »

Excluding the lag. A lot of people just can’t handle playing at the varsity level. Instead they refer to stay junior varsity for life on the no cp campaign.

hmm, clutch points seemed to have dulled your senses

Edirt_seliv

LegacyDM wrote: »

Edirt_seliv wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Godspeed wrote: »

Excluding the lag. A lot of people just can’t handle playing at the varsity level. Instead they refer to stay junior varsity for life on the no cp campaign.

Uh huh. CP is junior varsity. CP=crutch for tank meta because people don't know how to stay alive...the only reason Zos doesn't abandon CP is because they want casuals to feel powerful rather than work to stay alive in no cp.

Troll harder.

Let me get this straight. Your OP stated that you tried Vivec, found it too hard to win fights, then left Vivec to go to sotha because it was easier to win fights, then proceeded to call Vivec the junior varsity?

I'm making a case that's is more balanced. Not easier.

So your criteria for 'balance' is whether or not YOU are able to kill people?

zyk

It sounds like the game is pure hideous disease at a meta level with or without CP.

I believe what Syhae says about No CP, but it really doesn't sound much different than Vivec. It's just a different kind of bad. The difference is on Vivec compared to BGs is you can look for randoms in poor builds to kite... usually using a pure hideous disease build.

BGs just makes it so hideous disease builds actually have to fight each other. It's funny to see these guys who have been fighting randoms in towers with meta groups for 5 years complain about having to fight groups in meta builds in BGs -- not anyone in particular, but I do see that a lot.

I hope Brian Wheeler has a plan to clean up the extremes of this game and take the emphasis away from OP sets. I think a problem is, especially with CP, is that the game is so incredibly convoluted that it is difficult for ZOS to anticipate how the tools they provide may be used. Basically, the playerbase crowdsources finding OP combinations.

Alomar

LegacyDM wrote: »

No wonder some of the big names like @FENGRUSH are back on sotha. CP is just cancer. Tank meta and ttk is just rediculous. In addition to the lag being awful. Zos, just do us all a favor and just can CP pvp. Keep CP in pve. Rework it to make the pve more challenging, but for the love of all things holy just get rid of it for pvp. You can separate it and balance pvp separately from pve rather than trying to do this 3 way balancing juggle fest. Pvp Plaers will adapt. Pve players won't care. Find a way to reward pvp players for having CP. I don't know, make it a cosmetic thing like gw2. More CPs you have in pvp the better looking armor you earn. Or free crown crates or potions. Your smart I'm sure you can think of something... Or maybe not... If you can't listen to the community.

It's asinine. I came back from a break in the game and I tickle people in Vivec. Went to sotha and can actually damage people. It's like night and day and more satisfying. I actually do damage and have to be more strategic about resources which is challenging in is own right. On Vivec you just spam skills over and over to no effect. DKs, Templars, wardens, unkillable. Especially in ball groups. It's garbage.

You overlook the main issue and the cause of said issue. The issue being no active development towards pvp (balancing, lag removal, bug fixing, new content), and the cause being ZOS gave up on PvP years ago and the community size doesn't warrant investing any $ into. For the 4 years I played ESO I spent the last year playing mostly solo or in small grps in Sotha, much for the same reasons you list.

Yet, it wasn't the "way the game is meant to be played" or "so much better of a form of pvp that the other needs to be deleted". What it is, is just a band-aid that makes the issues the game's pvp has less transparent. You have less lag because there's less people, you avoid the lack of cp balancing because there is none, and ttk/resource management becomes shorter.

Sheezabeast

What stops you from grinding cp? Are you too casual to earn them?

Lucky28

LegacyDM wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I think I saw you last night around blood. Welcome back. I think you play a ranged mag nb. Bad news. It's in a difficult spot. And there are some metas flying around that make life even more difficult. I took a long break too. Problem is that there really is no other pvp game like this one on the market. I do hope they get a handle on the server performance. They did say they have plans to try and address it. Maybe we will have quantum computing by then and it will be ok?

Hey man! Thanks. Yeah you got me with a couple good stealth ganks . It just sucks that to do decent damage in Vivec one absolute has to depend on caluurions legacy. In sotha there is better build diversity. Don't need to rely on that burst proc set to be competative.

No You don't have to use Caluurions. as i've said i 2-3 shot most people (in vivec) on my magblade, i don't use Caluurions. you seriously don't need Caluurions to be competitive on a magblade. I haven't once been killed by anyone using Caluurions this patch, the set is vastly overrated.

probabkyravi

CP PvP is creche.

mayasunrising

VioletVience

amir412 wrote: »

If you are right, then why Vivec is more popular than Sotha?

cause many casual players love CP resource pool and sustain for sneak and snipe

Datthaw

booksmcread wrote: »

Idk what this is, but we need more