Significant issues in BGs

hesobad

There is so much wrong with BGs in ESO. I scroll through the forums reading the same complaints over and over... It begs the question does ZOS ever read what the majority are saying? I want to make a poll so people can vote and hopefully ZOS will fix at least 1 of these issues in the next 3 quarters if we keep our fingers crossed and pray to Talos

jhall03

You definitely play a mag class.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Pre made groups

Zenimax is so out of contact with their community, it's just sad. You tag them (@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GaryA ) and they never reply back, the silence means they don't care. They only moderate the forums by removing and pruning posts/threads. There really needs to be a formal statement acknowledging what EVERYONE is saying on these PvP forums. Silence is really unprofessional for a company that some of us are paying content for.

hesobad

jhall03 wrote: »

You definitely play a mag class.

Used too. my mag classes are dead and buried. Its either play full class cannon and get kills or build tanky and get none. not too much middle ground with magic classes anymore

Gilvoth

Other

as allways, it should be noted that if you want to see what everyone beliefs are about these subjects then simply ask them via @name of the people playing eso.
because this forum is a very small portion of the entire eso population.

Aznox

Other

Broken queue.

jediodyn_ESO

Pre made groups

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Zenimax is so out of contact with their community, it's just sad. You tag them (@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GaryA ) and they never reply back, the silence means they don't care. They only moderate the forums by removing and pruning posts/threads. There really needs to be a formal statement acknowledging what EVERYONE is saying on these PvP forums. Silence is really unprofessional for a company that some of us are paying content for.

They never post to this forum. We’ve been pleading for premade v pug changes since it began. This patch, there is an actual reason for premade teams to abuse the broken system, so it’s particularly bad.

I feel like we come here to scream into the void.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Pre made groups

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Zenimax is so out of contact with their community, it's just sad. You tag them (@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GaryA ) and they never reply back, the silence means they don't care. They only moderate the forums by removing and pruning posts/threads. There really needs to be a formal statement acknowledging what EVERYONE is saying on these PvP forums. Silence is really unprofessional for a company that some of us are paying content for.

They never post to this forum. We’ve been pleading for premade v pug changes since it began. This patch, there is an actual reason for premade teams to abuse the broken system, so it’s particularly bad.

I feel like we come here to scream into the void.

100% agree.

Bashev

I was playing BGs exclusively last month every night for 4-5 hours.
I had almost no issues with premades. It happens that I play vs a premade group but very rarely. I was accused that I am in a premade group very often though but I queue solo.

The worst things in BGs are:
* targeting system with pets
* bleeds
* ice spam / time stop spam

jediodyn_ESO

Pre made groups

Bashev wrote: »

I was playing BGs exclusively last month every night for 4-5 hours.
I had almost no issues with premades. It happens that I play vs a premade group but very rarely. I was accused that I am in a premade group very often though but I queue solo.

The worst things in BGs are:
* targeting system with pets
* bleeds
* ice spam / time stop spam

“Last month” the BG rewards were much less valuable, so there was much less incentive to actually bother to group up, and there were many less pre-made teams. Not that pre-made teams weren’t still a problem last season at high MMR. In a competitive game with only 4 players per team, it should be common sense to separate the matches.

False accusations are a sign of inexperienced players. On PS4 all of the frequent players know each other, we know who runs with who. Thanks to the lovely MMR system, we’re constantly matched solo against each other’s partners & groups, or thrown into a 2 player team, eventually gaining a poor noob or two who can’t even figure out their skills a gainst a premade.

I do agree with you about pets though. Especially on console. I get that using your pets well to block attacks is a “skill” but because of the game’s targeting engine it really becomes more of a “player vs the UI” thing than a matter of talent. It’s worse on console than pc. You can have a player targeted and your move will still fire at a pet because of rubber banding pets and inconsistencies in the time it takes abilities to actually fire based on BG lag. Your cursor will, for just a moment, end up between or on slightly overlapping targets and your move will target the pet. The game is more fun when random abuses to the UI targeting system aren’t part of the key gameplay.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Pre made groups

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I was playing BGs exclusively last month every night for 4-5 hours.
I had almost no issues with premades. It happens that I play vs a premade group but very rarely. I was accused that I am in a premade group very often though but I queue solo.

The worst things in BGs are:
* targeting system with pets
* bleeds
* ice spam / time stop spam

“Last month” the BG rewards were much less valuable, so there was much less incentive to actually bother to group up, and there were many less pre-made teams. Not that pre-made teams weren’t still a problem last season at high MMR. In a competitive game with only 4 players per team, it should be common sense to separate the matches.

False accusations are a sign of inexperienced players. On PS4 all of the frequent players know each other, we know who runs with who. Thanks to the lovely MMR system, we’re constantly matched solo against each other’s partners & groups, or thrown into a 2 player team, eventually gaining a poor noob or two who can’t even figure out their skills against a premade.

I do agree with you about pets though. Especially on console. I get that using your pets well to block attacks is a “skill” but because of the game’s targeting engine it really becomes more of a “player vs the UI” thing than a matter of talent. It’s worse on console than pc. You can have a player targeted and your move will still fire at a pet because of rubber banding pets and inconsistencies in the time it takes abilities to actually fire based on BG lag. Your cursor will, for just a moment, end up between or on slightly overlapping targets and your move will target the pet. The game is more fun when random abuses to the UI targeting system aren’t part of the key gameplay.

I find myself agreeing with you again, that *** never consistently happens on forums where we take to them after rage quitting the game because of X reason. I've vented in a few PvE guild discords of mine and people will counter voice their opinions on the PvP meta with no real experience playing PvP BGs.

"I never really ran into any problems with premades"
"I don't get what all the fuss is about with spin to win, my tank build works fine in BGs"

Oh boy...

Bashev

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I was playing BGs exclusively last month every night for 4-5 hours.
I had almost no issues with premades. It happens that I play vs a premade group but very rarely. I was accused that I am in a premade group very often though but I queue solo.

The worst things in BGs are:
* targeting system with pets
* bleeds
* ice spam / time stop spam

“Last month” the BG rewards were much less valuable, so there was much less incentive to actually bother to group up, and there were many less pre-made teams. Not that pre-made teams weren’t still a problem last season at high MMR. In a competitive game with only 4 players per team, it should be common sense to separate the matches.

False accusations are a sign of inexperienced players. On PS4 all of the frequent players know each other, we know who runs with who. Thanks to the lovely MMR system, we’re constantly matched solo against each other’s partners & groups, or thrown into a 2 player team, eventually gaining a poor noob or two who can’t even figure out their skills against a premade.

I do agree with you about pets though. Especially on console. I get that using your pets well to block attacks is a “skill” but because of the game’s targeting engine it really becomes more of a “player vs the UI” thing than a matter of talent. It’s worse on console than pc. You can have a player targeted and your move will still fire at a pet because of rubber banding pets and inconsistencies in the time it takes abilities to actually fire based on BG lag. Your cursor will, for just a moment, end up between or on slightly overlapping targets and your move will target the pet. The game is more fun when random abuses to the UI targeting system aren’t part of the key gameplay.

I find myself agreeing with you again, that *** never consistently happens on forums where we take to them after rage quitting the game because of X reason. I've vented in a few PvE guild discords of mine and people will counter voice their opinions on the PvP meta with no real experience playing PvP BGs.

"I never really ran into any problems with premades"
"I don't get what all the fuss is about with spin to win, my tank build works fine in BGs"

Oh boy...

I play almost every night vs same people. And they are in different groups all the time. That is why I know that I dont play vs premades.

I also encourage ZoS to put some kind of mark on already grouped players so it is cleared when they are grouped in advance.

Thogard

Pre made groups

Bashev wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

I was playing BGs exclusively last month every night for 4-5 hours.
I had almost no issues with premades. It happens that I play vs a premade group but very rarely. I was accused that I am in a premade group very often though but I queue solo.

The worst things in BGs are:
* targeting system with pets
* bleeds
* ice spam / time stop spam

“Last month” the BG rewards were much less valuable, so there was much less incentive to actually bother to group up, and there were many less pre-made teams. Not that pre-made teams weren’t still a problem last season at high MMR. In a competitive game with only 4 players per team, it should be common sense to separate the matches.

False accusations are a sign of inexperienced players. On PS4 all of the frequent players know each other, we know who runs with who. Thanks to the lovely MMR system, we’re constantly matched solo against each other’s partners & groups, or thrown into a 2 player team, eventually gaining a poor noob or two who can’t even figure out their skills against a premade.

I do agree with you about pets though. Especially on console. I get that using your pets well to block attacks is a “skill” but because of the game’s targeting engine it really becomes more of a “player vs the UI” thing than a matter of talent. It’s worse on console than pc. You can have a player targeted and your move will still fire at a pet because of rubber banding pets and inconsistencies in the time it takes abilities to actually fire based on BG lag. Your cursor will, for just a moment, end up between or on slightly overlapping targets and your move will target the pet. The game is more fun when random abuses to the UI targeting system aren’t part of the key gameplay.

I find myself agreeing with you again, that *** never consistently happens on forums where we take to them after rage quitting the game because of X reason. I've vented in a few PvE guild discords of mine and people will counter voice their opinions on the PvP meta with no real experience playing PvP BGs.

"I never really ran into any problems with premades"
"I don't get what all the fuss is about with spin to win, my tank build works fine in BGs"

Oh boy...

I play almost every night vs same people. And they are in different groups all the time. That is why I know that I dont play vs premades.

I also encourage ZoS to put some kind of mark on already grouped players so it is cleared when they are grouped in advance.

Ditto

Lot of magdens though

Fake Remedy

Other

The polls in this sub section of the official forums are plagued with dirty anti social Xv1ers. EU PC side, even for the top end premades its not even serious enough. Many good solo queued players stuff full groups on a daily basics.

So you stop players grouping up before a match???? They'll still queue and play almost the same. Such a small hand full of players go into Battlegrounds, let alone group up. It may well cut off the social and competitive aspect of grouping with real life and online friends in a massive multiplayer online role playing game. Your "youtube" build ain't going to carry you, neither is using a steering wheel and brake pads. Try spamming your friends list or join a battleground guild and make a group you unsocial nerds.

I keep going back to saying. MMR should match players with equal skill and knowledge. It doesn't and there lies the problem.

Peace

frostz417

Pre made groups

Where’s the option for proc sets and perma snare/roots?

Aurielle

Pre made groups

Fake Remedy wrote: »

The polls in this sub section of the official forums are plagued with dirty anti social Xv1ers. EU PC side, even for the top end premades its not even serious enough. Many good solo queued players stuff full groups on a daily basics.

So you stop players grouping up before a match???? They'll still queue and play almost the same. Such a small hand full of players go into Battlegrounds, let alone group up. It may well cut off the social and competitive aspect of grouping with real life and online friends in a massive multiplayer online role playing game. Your "youtube" build ain't going to carry you, neither is using a steering wheel and brake pads. Try spamming your friends list or join a battleground guild and make a group you unsocial nerds.

I keep going back to saying. MMR should match players with equal skill and knowledge. It doesn't and there lies the problem.

Peace

You’d have a point if the vast majority of pre-mades didn’t build for the max cheese meta. Literally just about every pre-made I play against consists of one of the following;

1. 2 spin to win stamwardens + 1 permafrost / ice WOE spammer + 1 guard Templar heal-tank (execute + snare cheese)

2. Four magsorcs with two pets continuously equipped, plus atronach ultimates and Maw of the Infernal, heavy attacking and wrath spamming their way to an easy victory (pet targeting cheese)

3. Three pack leader werewolves with a dedicated pocket healer (more pet targeting cheese).

If you think these setups require “skill” to utilize effectively, then I don’t know what to tell you. Don’t assume that if someone queued solo, it’s because they’re antisocial. Queue times are long enough as it is when you’re solo. Why on earth would I want to spend 30+ minutes in a four man max cheese premade group just so I can quickly roflstomp some solo-queued teams who don’t have an optimimum cheese setup?

Nogawd

They always scream "premade" when they lose and have to shift the blame somewhere.

Fake Remedy

Other

Aurielle wrote: »

You’d have a point if the vast majority of pre-mades didn’t build for the max cheese meta. Literally just about every pre-made I play against consists of one of the following;

1. 2 spin to win stamwardens + 1 permafrost / ice WOE spammer + 1 guard Templar heal-tank (execute + snare cheese)

2. Four magsorcs with two pets continuously equipped, plus atronach ultimates and Maw of the Infernal, heavy attacking and wrath spamming their way to an easy victory (pet targeting cheese)

3. Three pack leader werewolves with a dedicated pocket healer (more pet targeting cheese).

What you are talking about here is the games balance which is another can of worms and applies across the whole platform. Solo queued players who PvP will and do (or try to) run builds that make the most of the above skills (as well as others). Please if someone could just make a Battleground video of their peak times matches were they face half decent groups on a regular basis using the above generic npc setups then I honestly would consider re-rolling server. Because EU PC is dead.

Aurielle wrote: »

If you think these setups require “skill” to utilize effectively, then I don’t know what to tell you.

This game and many more are balanced like paper, scissors and stone. If you choose to ignore that, then I don't know what to tell you either.

Aurielle wrote: »

Don’t assume that if someone queued solo, it’s because they’re antisocial. Queue times are long enough as it is when you’re solo. Why on earth would I want to spend 30+ minutes in a four man max cheese premade group just so I can quickly roflstomp some solo-queued teams who don’t have an optimimum cheese setup?

Calling bs. Please show me where you have fought premade vs premade vs premade. Or just a 4v4 will do. Queues EU PC side are no longer that long. I would consider playing toe to toe as a full group against other 4 player groups challenging and competitive. Complaining about premade groups on the forums and not grouping up to help yourself. Is YOUR CHOICE. Players need to take their cyrodiil zergling stabilisers off and consider their play style before jumping into a 4v4v4 arena.

wheem_ESO

Bleeds too powerful

Premade groups on PC-NA don't seem as consistent as they used to be. There are days where you'll have several premades queueing at around the same time (sometimes not actually ending up against each other, though), and other days there aren't any around, unless you count the occasional duo.

It still makes some days really not-fun for doing BGs, since if there's a premade going, without enough of the "right" people and builds queueing up solo, it's just going to be stomp after stomp.

Vermethys

Pre made groups

There should be the option to choose multiple items in a poll, to be frank -- though I think most of those issues aren't particularly annoying in vacuum. A spin2win spammer or permafrost user, for example, would not be especially frustrating were they not playing in a solid or premade group.

But I still think something needs to be done about Steel Tornado; it's become a theme now in BGs to have a large portion of your death recaps contain nothing but Subterranean Assault, Dawnbreaker of Smiting, and Steel Tornado (usually in that order).

Aurielle

Pre made groups

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

You’d have a point if the vast majority of pre-mades didn’t build for the max cheese meta. Literally just about every pre-made I play against consists of one of the following;

1. 2 spin to win stamwardens + 1 permafrost / ice WOE spammer + 1 guard Templar heal-tank (execute + snare cheese)

2. Four magsorcs with two pets continuously equipped, plus atronach ultimates and Maw of the Infernal, heavy attacking and wrath spamming their way to an easy victory (pet targeting cheese)

3. Three pack leader werewolves with a dedicated pocket healer (more pet targeting cheese).

What you are talking about here is the games balance which is another can of worms and applies across the whole platform. Solo queued players who PvP will and do (or try to) run builds that make the most of the above skills (as well as others). Please if someone could just make a Battleground video of their peak times matches were they face half decent groups on a regular basis using the above generic npc setups then I honestly would consider re-rolling server. Because EU PC is dead.

Aurielle wrote: »

If you think these setups require “skill” to utilize effectively, then I don’t know what to tell you.

This game and many more are balanced like paper, scissors and stone. If you choose to ignore that, then I don't know what to tell you either.

Aurielle wrote: »

Don’t assume that if someone queued solo, it’s because they’re antisocial. Queue times are long enough as it is when you’re solo. Why on earth would I want to spend 30+ minutes in a four man max cheese premade group just so I can quickly roflstomp some solo-queued teams who don’t have an optimimum cheese setup?

Calling bs. Please show me where you have fought premade vs premade vs premade. Or just a 4v4 will do. Queues EU PC side are no longer that long. I would consider playing toe to toe as a full group against other 4 player groups challenging and competitive. Complaining about premade groups on the forums and not grouping up to help yourself. Is YOUR CHOICE. Players need to take their cyrodiil zergling stabilisers off and consider their play style before jumping into a 4v4v4 arena.

Again, you are making a LOT of blanket statements here. Why do you assume that people who queue solo are “zerglings”? When I’m in Cyrodiil (which is rare these days), I prefer to run small groups, as large scale zerging on console is just unbearable performance-wise. And when did I EVER say that premade-vs-premade-vs-premade is a frequent thing? You clearly misunderstood the section you quoted. I queue solo, because queue times as a premade suck, and when you DO finally get into a match, your premade is often up against solo queued players. I don’t want to spend forever in the queue, just to roflstomp solo queued players quickly with my carefully selected and optimized group. It’s not fun. I’d rather queue solo, try to work with my random team, and secure an interesting victory. The best matches are those in which everyone is queued solo, and running a variety of builds — not just the standard premade cheese fest.

KingKayanto

Other

The biggest problem IMO is the rather common disconnecting. Remove the DC penalty until you fix your game ZOS!

Having to wait almost 20 minutes before you can requeue is pretty sour when the problem is on ZOS's side.

EDIT: Full premades can be really nasty too but this might be a population and matchmaking related problem too.

Sy1ph5

Other

You can still steal enough kills from a premade to win but the fun just isn't there with the constant aoe/root/slow spam.
Moving at a nice leisurely walk during my sweet sweet 4s of snare immunity and essentially stopping outside of it isn't exactly my idea of a good time in combat. There are lots of things that need to change.
Guard shouldn't pass through mitigation twice. Make all the damage that you take from guarding someone oblivion damage.

Remove snares from actually useful offensive skills. If it does damage and another effect it doesn't need a snare. I have to use a gcd to use effectively worthless skill to regain control of my movement while spamming offensive skills takes it away. The imbalance between removal and application is clear.

Get the zergs out of bgs it's irritating how brainless and effective spamming timestop/ice blockade and aoes is. Most aoes are egg. Steel tornado doesn't hit that hard unless you were already low.

Timestop needs completely deleted as a skill it just can't be balanced it will either be useless or op put something else there.

I feel like I get zerged down less in vivec than I do in BGs and that's a problem.

Thogard

Pre made groups

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

You can still steal enough kills from a premade to win but the fun just isn't there with the constant aoe/root/slow spam.
Moving at a nice leisurely walk during my sweet sweet 4s of snare immunity and essentially stopping outside of it isn't exactly my idea of a good time in combat. There are lots of things that need to change.
Guard shouldn't pass through mitigation twice. Make all the damage that you take from guarding someone oblivion damage.

Remove snares from actually useful offensive skills. If it does damage and another effect it doesn't need a snare. I have to use a gcd to use effectively worthless skill to regain control of my movement while spamming offensive skills takes it away. The imbalance between removal and application is clear.

Get the zergs out of bgs it's irritating how brainless and effective spamming timestop/ice blockade and aoes is. Most aoes are egg. Steel tornado doesn't hit that hard unless you were already low.

Timestop needs completely deleted as a skill it just can't be balanced it will either be useless or op put something else there.

I feel like I get zerged down less in vivec than I do in BGs and that's a problem.

100% agree

RedTalon

Other

NM been having fun lately

kalunte

Other

the main issue to my eyes is AOE damage.

you cant dodge it.
the user dont have to target.
movement latency.

for sur a group of ppl AOE-ing is supposed to kill ppl. but no one should die against one or two ppl aoe-ing over and over.

aoe ults should have a much higher cost seeing how game maker they are (they often do high dmg and control), or single target should cost less.

as long as aoe-build will dominate single target build, whatever the reason is. the game will have issues.

Urvoth

AoE CCs are the biggest problem by far in BGs atm. They are far too effective for being spammable, non ultimate skills.

brandonv516

Not just BG related I guess but:

Permafrost/Northern needs to be a bit more obvious than it is right now. More like the Destro ultimate. And possibly another 1 sec delay before it begins.

On that note, Refreshing path/Twisting path need to also be more obvious.

There are likely others I'm sure.

As far as bleeds, I think there will be some adjustments so I'm not too worried there.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Pre made groups

I think we all know premade is one of the biggest issues, however I think stealth spammers and specifically the huge numbers of bow spammers are generally making the BGs much less fun.

I would add however that as a frost mage that tends to wreck *** up, I find northernstorm better than permaforst, and I think ive only ever died to perma like... once...? The ult in general is pretty OP, but if your issue with the frost mage is the amount of CC it pumps out then your issue is with frost being a viable build element in general. Elemental Blockade roots cold enemies, WintersRevenge->Wall and you insta AOE CC everyone and its part of your pvp rotation. Plz no nerf, I like my build

Werewolfs are only really an issue in sub 50, they seem to care less about good sets, gear and abilities, meaning that a werewolf in low level is much closer to what you would expect a top level to play, especially with the self healing and mitigation. In post-50 when everyone has good builds I dont think they're an issue at-all.

CompM4s

They will never remove the ability to play with your friends. Premade groups are stronger in all content and that wont change.

jcm2606

Pre made groups

Can we also add long and buggy queues, and general game performance to the poll?