So this is what the PC/EU guys have been complaining about forever

barshemm

An AD faction that runs 3 bars to the other factions 1 bars and night caps every night to secure victory. GG

Now that campaign score is completely pointless can the rest of the factions quit whining about faction swapping and just enjoy some PVP?

BTW, I love the capping both of the EP scrolls but not touching the DC scrolls to keep them close so they compete for 2nd place while you pull further ahead. That's some devious thinking there! Nice!

See you guys in Vlast, the promise land!

barshemm

Just be clear, I'm talking about PC/NA.

Mrsinister2

That giant ad ball group that farms the same 10 ep all morning has completely ruined my morning pvp time


I actually did pve stuff this morning instead

dtsharples

Sounds exactly like Vivec PC / EU.
How strange, must be an AD thing.

Heimpai

What campaign? You said pc/NA but AD is currently last in vivec, though they did get dc scrolls and not EP‘s

AD is also last in sotha, are you playing the completely dead campaign?

barshemm

Heimpai wrote: »

What campaign? You said pc/NA but AD is currently last in vivec, though they did get dc scrolls and not EP‘s

AD is also last in sotha, are you playing the completely dead campaign?

DC and EP must have focused them last night.


It's 8:04AM right now. While AD is still in last place, they have both of DCs scrolls, will get 121 pts next eval and they and EP both have 2 bars to DC's 1 bar.

Maybe EP morning game is stepping up. I guess AP hasn't chased them all away lol

NupidStoob

dtsharples wrote: »

Sounds exactly like Vivec PC / EU.
How strange, must be an AD thing.

Thats why PC EU in Sotha is zerged by red 24/7?

I wish there was something enforcing balanced populations. I play AD in Sotha and EP in Vivec and both times I am just getting outnumbered all day long.

20 mins ago in black boot in Sotha. Merry PvD from reds as usual. Forgive the bad graphics, but otherwise can't get reasonable fps in cyro: https://imgur.com/a/xR3B4uK

Derra

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

That giant ad ball group that farms the same 10 ep all morning has completely ruined my morning pvp time


I actually did pve stuff this morning instead

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

Rin_Senya

#weekdays

Biro123

Derra wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

That giant ad ball group that farms the same 10 ep all morning has completely ruined my morning pvp time


I actually did pve stuff this morning instead

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I honestly think it's approaching 3 now..

Thoragaal

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

dtsharples

There just aren't the same amount of DC or EP online in the morning. It's literally 3 bars v 1 v 1.
The reality is, that most people have Jobs, and can't spend their morning playing a game.
Somehow, all the jobless people ended up on AD, and they treat capping an empty map at 6am like a profession.
There could be 100 EP / DC guilds, but there just aren't enough people online to make them a plausible option.

So Yes, we are passing the blame onto ZOS, because their ineptitude has resulted in 3 years of this completely unbalanced play. Campaign scoring is a joke, nobody cares, and PVP is really suffering for it.
The PVP population has probably halved, but repeatedly lowering the population limit is disguising this demise in PVP activity.
This paired with the lag, and allowing completely unbalanced scoring, will be the death of Cyrodiil.

Heimpai

dtsharples wrote: »

There just aren't the same amount of DC or EP online in the morning. It's literally 3 bars v 1 v 1.
The reality is, that most people have Jobs, and can't spend their morning playing a game.
Somehow, all the jobless people ended up on AD, and they treat capping an empty map at 6am like a profession.
There could be 100 EP / DC guilds, but there just aren't enough people online to make them a plausible option.

So Yes, we are passing the blame onto ZOS, because their ineptitude has resulted in 3 years of this completely unbalanced play. Campaign scoring is a joke, nobody cares, and PVP is really suffering for it.
The PVP population has probably halved, but repeatedly lowering the population limit is disguising this demise in PVP activity.
This paired with the lag, and allowing completely unbalanced scoring, will be the death of Cyrodiil.

The real world isn’t based around you, some of us work graveyard(night shift) and some of us don’t fill like playing with people we don’t understand

However this is wrong but 3 bar ep holding hands with 2 bar dc going all the way to 2 bar ad‘s gates is all good? Not to mention dc helped as EP took their scrolls from AD instead of trying to get them back (this is NA)

This behavior is why idc when people complain about pop issues, for the EU peeps NA is nowhere near as bad as they make it sound

dtsharples

This is a discussion about PC EU

Heimpai

dtsharples wrote: »

This is a discussion about PC EU

Read second post

barshemm

Yea sorry I realized the original post was unclear, this is about PC/NA

evoniee

i thought op post is really about pc eu in the first place, because it is the same case here ROFL xD

Rin_Senya

Well actually it's about PC NA guys FINALLY catching up with PC EU atm.

Biro123

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

The thing is, there are only so many people who play at that time of day. You cannot simply conjure more.
The problem is that 3/4 of them (made-up number) all choose to play on the same faction.
You cannot blame the remaining 1/4 for
this problem, saying they are 'not organising'. The only ones you can blame are the players who are choosing to keep supporting the stacked faction as opposed to switching to even things up. Afterall, the only solution (short of ZOS removing off-peak scoring) is to have even sides.

Thoragaal

Biro123 wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

The thing is, there are only so many people who play at that time of day. You cannot simply conjure more.
The problem is that 3/4 of them (made-up number) all choose to play on the same faction.
You cannot blame the remaining 1/4 for
this problem, saying they are 'not organising'. The only ones you can blame are the players who are choosing to keep supporting the stacked faction as opposed to switching to even things up. Afterall, the only solution (short of ZOS removing off-peak scoring) is to have even sides.

I don't think you're taking into account all the players that log on, notice there are uneven odds and then log off. But these people aren't in contact with eachother, there's no community (like a guild) for them, but if there were the numbers would also start adding up. The AD guild wasn't built in a day and it's still slowly growing in numbers.
Since there's not a fixed number in the player base, it keeps fluctuating, then there's always new potential players ready to join. But nobody would stay if they're all alone.
So in a sense they do "conjure up". It's slow but it also adds up over time.
Lots of people in the AD guild wasn't regular pvp'ers, but after finding the community they now are.

Derra

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

Maybe because most people in pvp don´t go there to fight other players but rather to pve for points?
It´s not like EP isn´t doing the same thing on sotha. Or DC doing it on sotha or shor.

The problem is a structural one where pve/pvdoor gives pvp rewards thus encouraging destructive behavior from the player side.

This is also the reason why the players still going to vivec on EP and DC side often times prefer to fight each other instead of AD.
Fighting AD is absolutely asinine as most of the factions players do actively avoid fighting unless they´re sure they´ll win. Otherwise they´ll sit inside a keep and siege you or wait in sneak until they´re sure the fight they engage into is already won.

So the problem isn´t only that you don´t have the people to start building such a guild in the first place (because most play easymode on a different campaign their faction dominates) - it´s also that the people you´d fight do everything to prevent you from actually having interesting fights.

You can´t fight people that do everything to not fight you - on terms that could be fun for both parties (see only healy healy tanky tanky builds with no dmg or they´re sneaking - the former aims to win the fight by surviving and outnumbering to kill anything - the latter aims to control fight conditions and only engages when they think they´ll win).

You can´t fix it on the player side (see also why don´t sotha EP come vivec to have action there).
The large majority choses the way of least resistance to get their carrot on a stick (in this case pvp rewards).
If a developer wants to have meaningful open world pvp either the map has to be designed differently to encourage the two weak factions to work together or they have to prevent the leading faction from being too dominant (dynamic population caps).

SHADOW2KK

AD zerg everywhere then apparently, we been used to that for a long time now on PC EU.

Biro123

Derra wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

Maybe because most people in pvp don´t go there to fight other players but rather to pve for points?
It´s not like EP isn´t doing the same thing on sotha. Or DC doing it on sotha or shor.

The problem is a structural one where pve/pvdoor gives pvp rewards thus encouraging destructive behavior from the player side.

This is also the reason why the players still going to vivec on EP and DC side often times prefer to fight each other instead of AD.
Fighting AD is absolutely asinine as most of the factions players do actively avoid fighting unless they´re sure they´ll win. Otherwise they´ll sit inside a keep and siege you or wait in sneak until they´re sure the fight they engage into is already won.

So the problem isn´t only that you don´t have the people to start building such a guild in the first place (because most play easymode on a different campaign their faction dominates) - it´s also that the people you´d fight do everything to prevent you from actually having interesting fights.

You can´t fight people that do everything to not fight you - on terms that could be fun for both parties (see only healy healy tanky tanky builds with no dmg or they´re sneaking - the former aims to win the fight by surviving and outnumbering to kill anything - the latter aims to control fight conditions and only engages when they think they´ll win).

You can´t fix it on the player side (see also why don´t sotha EP come vivec to have action there).
The large majority choses the way of least resistance to get their carrot on a stick (in this case pvp rewards).
If a developer wants to have meaningful open world pvp either the map has to be designed differently to encourage the two weak factions to work together or they have to prevent the leading faction from being too dominant (dynamic population caps).

You noticed that too? I thought it was just me..

You're absolutely right.. Lately fighting AD, I've spotted the following (mostly outside of peak time)..


1. Huge blob of tanks and healers, making it VERY hard for smaller numbers to make dents.. Solo, I can't count the amount of times I've *almost* killed one for him to run back into the mass of heals and bodies.. Nor can I count the number of times I've died to them from stuff like chains, abusing that broken bow cc, and cage.. (yeah they're still using cage) - spamming those cc's constantly till it catches you with enough of them in range to kill with massed light-attack spam.. Its a group designed to beat solo's and to be unkillable by smaller numbers while they pvdoor.

2. When they do get wiped, there are always survivors hiding.. Again, can't count the number of times I've been alone and uncovered them - and rather than fight me in a straight 1v1, they instantly run and hide..

3. Also often while defending you see this group of 20+ AD running around to defend resources.. Yep a 20-man group of tanks chasing solos from resources.

All this is designed to drive smaller numbers from the game before they can build up even numbers to overpower them (and yes, they do get easily overpowered with even numbers of random, ungrouped players)
And then as it gets closer to peak time, there is the AD mega-zerg.... supported by a number of tough small-scale groups too, who know how to punish anyone who extends while trying to thin the zerglings.. sigh..

The only time its fun to fight AD is at peaktime when they get repeatedly and completely stomped.. but the lag from those mega-zergs takes all that fun away....

My first character was AD, but I would NEVER PVP for that faction, since they seem to be doing everything they possibly can to stifle PVP.

heng14rwb17_ESO

AD WINS.
AD FIGHT.
AD IS GOD !

NBrookus

Derra wrote: »

You can´t fight people that do everything to not fight you - on terms that could be fun for both parties (see only healy healy tanky tanky builds with no dmg or they´re sneaking - the former aims to win the fight by surviving and outnumbering to kill anything - the latter aims to control fight conditions and only engages when they think they´ll win).

The same dynamic is happening on NA.

Thoragaal wrote: »

I don't think you're taking into account all the players that log on, notice there are uneven odds and then log off. But these people aren't in contact with eachother, there's no community (like a guild) for them, but if there were the numbers would also start adding up. The AD guild wasn't built in a day and it's still slowly growing in numbers.

Almost all the people who are willing to fight against those odds already do. You have to be willing to accept killing one or two before the other 39 root spam and light attack you to death you as a win.

It's very easy to get noobs to join a zerg pvdooring the map. You can't reasonably expect to get very many new players, who are less equipped to deal with greater numbers in the first place, to spend a few months frustrated and demoralized for the months it would take to build an opposing guild. They'll quit.

Instead, those noobs go to a campaign where their faction is already dominant, join the pug zerg and "win." It's a fundamental structural problem that pvp avoidance is so highly rewarded in the pvp zone.

Thoragaal

Derra wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

Maybe because most people in pvp don´t go there to fight other players but rather to pve for points?
It´s not like EP isn´t doing the same thing on sotha. Or DC doing it on sotha or shor.

The problem is a structural one where pve/pvdoor gives pvp rewards thus encouraging destructive behavior from the player side.

This is also the reason why the players still going to vivec on EP and DC side often times prefer to fight each other instead of AD.
Fighting AD is absolutely asinine as most of the factions players do actively avoid fighting unless they´re sure they´ll win. Otherwise they´ll sit inside a keep and siege you or wait in sneak until they´re sure the fight they engage into is already won.

So the problem isn´t only that you don´t have the people to start building such a guild in the first place (because most play easymode on a different campaign their faction dominates) - it´s also that the people you´d fight do everything to prevent you from actually having interesting fights.

You can´t fight people that do everything to not fight you - on terms that could be fun for both parties (see only healy healy tanky tanky builds with no dmg or they´re sneaking - the former aims to win the fight by surviving and outnumbering to kill anything - the latter aims to control fight conditions and only engages when they think they´ll win).

You can´t fix it on the player side (see also why don´t sotha EP come vivec to have action there).
The large majority choses the way of least resistance to get their carrot on a stick (in this case pvp rewards).
If a developer wants to have meaningful open world pvp either the map has to be designed differently to encourage the two weak factions to work together or they have to prevent the leading faction from being too dominant (dynamic population caps).

My personal sense is that you don't like the objective driven pvp-type of gameplay. Like for example, take a keep requires people, in order to not letting the keep be taken you need defense and pvp ensues.
But since the majority is pushing for keeps and taking scrolls, then it also shows that's what the majority wants.
I mean, each to their own thing.
If you wanna small scale, go ahead, but you probably should avoid those bigger groups. If that's what the majority of players want then surely you have no issues finding similar minded people to play against/with.
If someone else just wants to sit inside a keep and snipe, then that's their prerogative to do so. If they wanna scuddle away as soon as someone built for melee fights, then that players best bet is to run away.
If people want to avoid fighting and focus on the most strategic choices for them to make AP, then that's fine too, no? I know plenty of people with the reaction time of a potatoe. I like them as people, I like playing with them because of their personality. But it would be completely foolish of me to take said person into a 2vs2 scenario.

You can't force people to pvp the way you like to pvp.
To me it just sounds like you don't like the idea behind "crown an emperor by taking keeps" and would rather just pvp. There's duels outside of cyrodiil. There's BG's for small scale combat. There's imperial city (however I have no idea what the state of it is nowdays).

My whole point is that what you, fundamentally, seem to object to is what the majority of players like; objective driven pvp.
I'm fully decked out in gear and skills meant for large scale combat. If I run after someone it's not to kill them, it's to chase them away from the objective, and my objective is to take the resource/keep, your objective is to kill said target.
I like the objective based pvp and I'd like more 20vs20 fights. But I would rather play with people I enjoy playing with, because of who they are as people, than to leave said group only to get more successful results in who can kill whom most effectively.

xMovingTarget

Biro123 wrote: »

My first character was AD, but I would NEVER PVP for that faction, since they seem to be doing everything they possibly can to stifle PVP.

Hmm. But I see you are DC. Which at least on vivec most of the tme is a mindless zerg too.

Biro123

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

My first character was AD, but I would NEVER PVP for that faction, since they seem to be doing everything they possibly can to stifle PVP.

Hmm. But I see you are DC. Which at least on vivec most of the tme is a mindless zerg too.

Ahh, but DC is the mindless zerg that looks for a fight, not the mindless zerg that does everything it can to avoid it.. A much more classy kind of mindlessness!

tbh, it only exists because its the only thing that shifts the AD faction-stack out of Ash every early-evening.. And you know how these things work - once it starts there's a momentum that's hard to stop.

Thoragaal

NBrookus wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I don't think you're taking into account all the players that log on, notice there are uneven odds and then log off. But these people aren't in contact with eachother, there's no community (like a guild) for them, but if there were the numbers would also start adding up. The AD guild wasn't built in a day and it's still slowly growing in numbers.

Almost all the people who are willing to fight against those odds already do. You have to be willing to accept killing one or two before the other 39 root spam and light attack you to death you as a win.

It's very easy to get noobs to join a zerg pvdooring the map. You can't reasonably expect to get very many new players, who are less equipped to deal with greater numbers in the first place, to spend a few months frustrated and demoralized for the months it would take to build an opposing guild. They'll quit.

Instead, those noobs go to a campaign where their faction is already dominant, join the pug zerg and "win." It's a fundamental structural problem that pvp avoidance is so highly rewarded in the pvp zone.

Yes, it takes time. Plus people got to be aware of the guild. They need to see something being active in their own faction. There's loads of people not even entering because they don't think there's a chance.. but if they were in a guild, and saw 10ppl in the campaign, they would also more likely to join in. While they are inside, more people would log on and see the activity and join in too.
If roots and light attacks is all the opposing faction is doing, then it wouldn't take much to ensure victory when the odds aren't completely overwhelming as in 1vs39

Personally I couldn't care less about the pvp rewards. And I, completely honestly, don't actively play with anyone else that do either (that I know of).
The AP gained only helps me buy siege equipement and I got the motifs a long time ago.
And the jewelry, well, it's a slight increase in stats, but nothing major really actively worth going for. Selling some, if they're good, is nice pocket money though. But if I needed the gold I would do something more effecient.
My personal reason, and most others that I play with, for doing what we're doing is because of the social aspect of it.

Point is, you Can battle the issue, if the issue, fundamentally, is about being overrun by greater numbers.
But I have a sense it's also more about people wanting to play their way, and they don't like getting disrupted when someone elses wants and needs goes against said persons goals.

Master_Kas

Biro123 wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

My first character was AD, but I would NEVER PVP for that faction, since they seem to be doing everything they possibly can to stifle PVP.

Hmm. But I see you are DC. Which at least on vivec most of the tme is a mindless zerg too.

Ahh, but DC is the mindless zerg that looks for a fight, not the mindless zerg that does everything it can to avoid it.. A much more classy kind of mindlessness!

tbh, it only exists because its the only thing that shifts the AD faction-stack out of Ash every early-evening.. And you know how these things work - once it starts there's a momentum that's hard to stop.

BS. The DC megatrains always was here just at diffrent times compared to the AD one. Most of these (TDA, Legion/Hungry wolves) are members who was part of the same guilds before. Including old blackswords. They always used to stack up 40+ man trains zerging down the map in the old trueflame campaign (when azura was the main campaign).

I remember guilds going to Trueflame back then just to farm the blue megablob, and in that campaign there was hardly any EP or AD opposition.

montjie

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

We been enjoying this for 2 years now

I have much respect for you Derra and I hate your streaking a**
But, we all know that fighting outnumbered is the biggest issue (no fighting chance when it happens). I started pvp'ing about 1½ year ago, but I don't see any efforts from players getting together and fight it. All I see is people complaining like it's someone else responsability, so why doesn't EP and DC come together to fight it?
I mean if it means so much, then surely someone would start a guild and pick up people that wants to fight, no?

Maybe because most people in pvp don´t go there to fight other players but rather to pve for points?
It´s not like EP isn´t doing the same thing on sotha. Or DC doing it on sotha or shor.

The problem is a structural one where pve/pvdoor gives pvp rewards thus encouraging destructive behavior from the player side.

This is also the reason why the players still going to vivec on EP and DC side often times prefer to fight each other instead of AD.
Fighting AD is absolutely asinine as most of the factions players do actively avoid fighting unless they´re sure they´ll win. Otherwise they´ll sit inside a keep and siege you or wait in sneak until they´re sure the fight they engage into is already won.

So the problem isn´t only that you don´t have the people to start building such a guild in the first place (because most play easymode on a different campaign their faction dominates) - it´s also that the people you´d fight do everything to prevent you from actually having interesting fights.

You can´t fight people that do everything to not fight you - on terms that could be fun for both parties (see only healy healy tanky tanky builds with no dmg or they´re sneaking - the former aims to win the fight by surviving and outnumbering to kill anything - the latter aims to control fight conditions and only engages when they think they´ll win).

You can´t fix it on the player side (see also why don´t sotha EP come vivec to have action there).
The large majority choses the way of least resistance to get their carrot on a stick (in this case pvp rewards).
If a developer wants to have meaningful open world pvp either the map has to be designed differently to encourage the two weak factions to work together or they have to prevent the leading faction from being too dominant (dynamic population caps).

My personal sense is that you don't like the objective driven pvp-type of gameplay. Like for example, take a keep requires people, in order to not letting the keep be taken you need defense and pvp ensues.
But since the majority is pushing for keeps and taking scrolls, then it also shows that's what the majority wants.
I mean, each to their own thing.
If you wanna small scale, go ahead, but you probably should avoid those bigger groups. If that's what the majority of players want then surely you have no issues finding similar minded people to play against/with.
If someone else just wants to sit inside a keep and snipe, then that's their prerogative to do so. If they wanna scuddle away as soon as someone built for melee fights, then that players best bet is to run away.
If people want to avoid fighting and focus on the most strategic choices for them to make AP, then that's fine too, no? I know plenty of people with the reaction time of a potatoe. I like them as people, I like playing with them because of their personality. But it would be completely foolish of me to take said person into a 2vs2 scenario.

You can't force people to pvp the way you like to pvp.
To me it just sounds like you don't like the idea behind "crown an emperor by taking keeps" and would rather just pvp. There's duels outside of cyrodiil. There's BG's for small scale combat. There's imperial city (however I have no idea what the state of it is nowdays).

My whole point is that what you, fundamentally, seem to object to is what the majority of players like; objective driven pvp.
I'm fully decked out in gear and skills meant for large scale combat. If I run after someone it's not to kill them, it's to chase them away from the objective, and my objective is to take the resource/keep, your objective is to kill said target.
I like the objective based pvp and I'd like more 20vs20 fights. But I would rather play with people I enjoy playing with, because of who they are as people, than to leave said group only to get more successful results in who can kill whom most effectively.

If youre not going up against players that often and spend lets say 85% of your combat time fighting npcs. Can you still call that pvp? Just because its being done in a pvp designated zone?