Remove MMR completely

frostz417

Whoever had the idea of this absolutely atrocious system really needs to be removed from the dev office. I love waiting in 15 minute que’s only to be thrown in games against 2 premades while my team is a team of 3 consisting of a cp 5 and a dude who quite 20 seconds in the game making it a 4v4v2 for 9 minutes until finally we get a 3rd in the LAST F***KING MINUTE. Let’s not forget how the times I actually get my friends together but we can’t even enjoy Bg’s Since the **** que is 30 minutes long. I wish I wars joking with my exaggerations but this isn’t false at all. Literally this trash ass system ruins Bg’s Because of stupid long que’s and I have to make a new character just so I can avoid these stupid 30 minute que’s.

Syiccal

yea I feel your pain, my q time is always 20-30mins regardless of the time of day.
The game doesn't have the population to have MMR like they have in place currently and it does need to be either 're worked completly or removed

Deep_01

I don't think removing it is the solution. Maybe rework, based on time played + time the class is played + gear sets + previous BG performances might help. On PC EU, I barely face a 5+ min queue any time of the day.

Syiccal

then you must have a low mmr. from my experience on my main it's 20-30 everytime however if I play on my new stam warden its almost instant as it doesn't have an mmr any where near as high

frostz417

Syiccal wrote: »

then you must have a low mmr. from my experience on my main it's 20-30 everytime however if I play on my new stam warden its almost instant as it doesn't have an mmr any where near as high

The way it works is higher MMR= long que’s times I play 6 different PvP characters and my 2 most played ones I can’t even do Bg’s On them anymore without long ass que times.

Qwazzy

Agree, 3 teams doesn't promote a competitive atmosphere as is. The MMR system has made one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game a drag.

wheem_ESO

"Oh you have a high MMR, so here's you at least one premade opposing team, after your long wait. This team is going to have DPS that's focus firing, along with a healer (which your team won't have btw), so be sure to enjoy all your deaths that happen in <= 3 seconds!"

Yea, something needs to change. I still favor a complete separation of the solo and premade queues, with MMR simply being used to distribute players in the solo queue (perhaps also taking into account the selection of group role, to avoid stacking healers on one team?)

Thogard

Yeah

wheem_ESO wrote: »

"Oh you have a high MMR, so here's you at least one premade opposing team, after your long wait. This team is going to have DPS that's focus firing, along with a healer (which your team won't have btw), so be sure to enjoy all your deaths that happen in <= 3 seconds!"

Yea, something needs to change. I still favor a complete separation of the solo and premade queues, with MMR simply being used to distribute players in the solo queue (perhaps also taking into account the selection of group role, to avoid stacking healers on one team?)

Agreed 100%.

And for the premade queue, let’s have a meaningful ladder based on win rate plz

Aurielle

I actually hate the MMR. I’m so tired of fighting the same people all the time. It’s gotten to the point where I can actually tell when I’m about to get hit with a familiar face’s burst rotation and can react accordingly. What made BGs so fun at first was the unpredictable quality of it. Sometimes you got matched up against potatoes, other times you were being completely outclassed. You saw every build under the sun.

Now? Everything’s so cookie cutter. You fight the same people and same team compositions over and over again, and it takes forever to launch — even when solo. It is so tiring waiting for the queue to pop, only to face yet another team consisting of a wings spamming DK tank, two spin-to-win permafrost-coordinating Wardens, and a pocket healer Templar with Earthgore.

Honestly, I’d rather do away with premades and the whole MMR system entirely. The population cannot sustain separate queues for premades and solos, and the only way to retain that unpredictable element is to prevent people from queuing up with specific teammates. I want a grab-bag where skilled players who are forced to adapt and work with unpredictable teammates actually have a shot at succeeding, rather than waiting 15+ minutes to be steamrolled by the latest meta premade group composition.

Vapirko

Aurielle wrote: »

I actually hate the MMR. I’m so tired of fighting the same people all the time. It’s gotten to the point where I can actually tell when I’m about to get hit with a familiar face’s burst rotation and can react accordingly. What made BGs so fun at first was the unpredictable quality of it. Sometimes you got matched up against potatoes, other times you were being completely outclassed. You saw every build under the sun.

Now? Everything’s so cookie cutter. You fight the same people and same team compositions over and over again, and it takes forever to launch — even when solo. It is so tiring waiting for the queue to pop, only to face yet another team consisting of a wings spamming DK tank, two spin-to-win permafrost-coordinating Wardens, and a pocket healer Templar with Earthgore.

Honestly, I’d rather do away with premades and the whole MMR system entirely. The population cannot sustain separate queues for premades and solos, and the only way to retain that unpredictable element is to prevent people from queuing up with specific teammates. I want a grab-bag where skilled players who are forced to adapt and work with unpredictable teammates actually have a shot at succeeding, rather than waiting 15+ minutes to be steamrolled by the latest meta premade group composition.

The four person thing definitely doesn’t work, since we don’t have the pop to support both queues maybe just do solo or duo queue so people at least have the option of playing with a friend. I know a two person can still have an impact but the three and four person premades just aren’t working.

Aurielle

Vapirko wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I actually hate the MMR. I’m so tired of fighting the same people all the time. It’s gotten to the point where I can actually tell when I’m about to get hit with a familiar face’s burst rotation and can react accordingly. What made BGs so fun at first was the unpredictable quality of it. Sometimes you got matched up against potatoes, other times you were being completely outclassed. You saw every build under the sun.

Now? Everything’s so cookie cutter. You fight the same people and same team compositions over and over again, and it takes forever to launch — even when solo. It is so tiring waiting for the queue to pop, only to face yet another team consisting of a wings spamming DK tank, two spin-to-win permafrost-coordinating Wardens, and a pocket healer Templar with Earthgore.

Honestly, I’d rather do away with premades and the whole MMR system entirely. The population cannot sustain separate queues for premades and solos, and the only way to retain that unpredictable element is to prevent people from queuing up with specific teammates. I want a grab-bag where skilled players who are forced to adapt and work with unpredictable teammates actually have a shot at succeeding, rather than waiting 15+ minutes to be steamrolled by the latest meta premade group composition.

The four person thing definitely doesn’t work, since we don’t have the pop to support both queues maybe just do solo or duo queue so people at least have the option of playing with a friend. I know a two person can still have an impact but the three and four person premades just aren’t working.

I would absolutely be on board with solo/duo only BGs. It would definitely bring some more variety to the table while still allowing you to group with friends when you feel like it.

frostz417

I feel like if zos actually did away with the stupid 4v4v4 mechanic and just did 4v4 it would be a lot more competitive. Absolutely STUPID, when most of the time I even do Bg’s It’s 4v4v3 and even with that it’s not even competitive. Just a jumbled mess of stupidity. Since zos lacks the competence to make 3 team gametyples balanced just do 2 teams and completely remove MMR. It would see a lot more positivity than this dog****

jcm2606

Deep_01 wrote: »

I don't think removing it is the solution. Maybe rework, based on time played + time the class is played + gear sets + previous BG performances might help. On PC EU, I barely face a 5+ min queue any time of the day.

This won't work, in fact it might make it worse for those who are actually good at the game (not being offensive, put your pitchforks down).

The simple truth of the matter is, there just isn't enough people playing BGs regularly to sustain a ranked match making system. Only a few percent of the player base, if even, does PVP at all, and a good portion of that few percent would stick to Cyrodiil, not touching BGs, so you're looking at a fraction of a percent of the player base doing BGs regularly.

Then you consider that match making is basically a bell curve, with the majority of players sitting in the lower MMR brackets, with gradually fewer and fewer players as you climb the ladder. Eventually, when you get to the top where people tend to get 30+ minute queue times, it wouldn't surprise me if there's only a dozen or so players in that bracket, maybe less. This is likely why long queue times are a thing in the first place, there just isn't enough players in your own MMR bracket, so the queue has to sit through the entire match making process, grabbing players from other nearby brackets, taking a long ass time doing so.

Ranked match making works, and works well in games with a healthy PVP population, as there are so many people in each of the brackets that even what @Aurielle mentioned, fighting the same players over and over, is reduced. There are so many players in your own bracket that each match is basically with different players.

Unfortunately, ESO just isn't one of these games, and it won't ever be. Even back on launch, where the PVP community was far bigger than it currently is, I don't think ranked match making would work particularly well, if BGs were a thing back then.

The best solution is honestly to just remove MMR. It was a solid effort on Zenimax's part, and I do believe their changes would have worked if the population was larger, but there just isn't enough players doing BGs regularly.

Mihael

Does anyone know if mmr also decides what team mates you get? Because if so Zos must think I’m a pvp God or something because I almost always have the least amount of people on my team fighting good players or premades but maybe it’s just terrible luck

frostz417

Mihael wrote: »

Does anyone know if mmr also decides what team mates you get? Because if so Zos must think I’m a pvp God or something because I almost always have the least amount of people on my team fighting good players or premades but maybe it’s just terrible luck

Yes. It pulls people in the same MMR bracket as you, or if it can’t due to no players being in the bracket, they just take 10 minutes longer and pull people from lower brackets. Making it so that the other teams are 8/10 times full premades while you have a team of 3 and from lower MMR brackets. So yes. Now please take this moment to feast in the complete downright stupidity of zos for implementing this absolutely atrocious ass system.

ChunkyCat

Nerf the MMR.

karekiz

6V6

*However you can only que with 4

Thogard

I’m actually pretty happy with how it is now.

In the highesr MMR brackets on PC NA most of the regulars have good enough positioning that it’s very hard to tell premades from pugs. @wheem_ESO you definitely fall in this category

Most of the premade v premade v pug deathmatches are timing out, and I’ve even seen more than a few where the pugs win.

And to be honest, that’s as close as we can get to balance without having to block group queueing or solo queueing.

Edit: premades are still destroying people in the lower and middle brackets so maybe the premade MMR bonus should be increased

DaveMoeDee

I love MMR. If I ever finally queue for a BG, I have a chance to be paired with crappy players like me! I am happy they designed matchmaking with me, someone who doesn't use it, in mind!

p00tx

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

ATomiX96

there needs to be some kind of MMR, otherwise every game is a stomp in either direction.
But they need to prioritize queue time way more than MMR especially with such a small playerbase.

DaveMoeDee

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

The same reason they gank in Cyrodiil. They enjoy killing people.

I suppose some could also be farming some rewards. I don't know much about BG rewards. Or maybe they want to get their 100k xp in a reasonable amount of time.

It isn't necessarily boring for the talented player when 3 teams means that there will still always be more enemies than foes and when foes suck, they can tell themselves that it is actually because they themselves are so awesome.

frostz417

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

Because I’m sick of waiting 30 minutes to play a single Bg game where most of the time it’s trash. This game does not have a big enough population to support a proper MMR system, let’s not forgot the countless flaws it has. Since zos lacks any competence to even make a system without thousands of flaws, better to just completely remove it entirely.

Thogard

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

Because I’m sick of waiting 30 minutes to play a single Bg game where most of the time it’s trash. This game does not have a big enough population to support a proper MMR system, let’s not forgot the countless flaws it has. Since zos lacks any competence to even make a system without thousands of flaws, better to just completely remove it entirely.

Are you on console? On PC my wait time went from 45 min to around 8 to 15 min max on my main.

frostz417

Thogard wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

Because I’m sick of waiting 30 minutes to play a single Bg game where most of the time it’s trash. This game does not have a big enough population to support a proper MMR system, let’s not forgot the countless flaws it has. Since zos lacks any competence to even make a system without thousands of flaws, better to just completely remove it entirely.

Are you on console? On PC my wait time went from 45 min to around 8 to 15 min max on my main.

Yes I’m on console. So our population isn’t as large as PC

ChunkyCat

why does my main character have to wait 25 minutes to get a match but my new characters can get one in seconds?

Do I really need to remake my character every few months just to keep playing? Seriously?

Can you please fix this?

Thogard

frostz417 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

Because I’m sick of waiting 30 minutes to play a single Bg game where most of the time it’s trash. This game does not have a big enough population to support a proper MMR system, let’s not forgot the countless flaws it has. Since zos lacks any competence to even make a system without thousands of flaws, better to just completely remove it entirely.

Are you on console? On PC my wait time went from 45 min to around 8 to 15 min max on my main.

Yes I’m on console. So our population isn’t as large as PC

You havent had the queue time patch. Just wait a week.

damarky

http://tinypic.com/r/wqsy6o/9

MMR SUCKS!!

Solo queing waited 25min watched a bunch of mates in the que for 15min get a game before me

Half my mates dont even play ESO any more because of MMR slow ques

FakeFox

My BG experience isn't much different. However I don't think MMR as a concept is the problem, more what ESOs very unpolished matchmaking does with it. In my opinion MMR is usually a necessary evil to assure fair matches, but in ESO it does not do that and this comes down to two things I think, without knowing much about the programing in the background.
Matchmaking times are way to long, I think either because of not enough players or more likely badly working algorithms, not MMR itself. Secondly MMR alone does not assure fair matches, matchmaking needs further rules to properly work, like not matching the same players over and over.

frostz417

ChunkyCat wrote: »

why does my main character have to wait 25 minutes to get a match but my new characters can get one in seconds?

Do I really need to remake my character every few months just to keep playing? Seriously?

Can you please fix this?

No. It’s more like why does my main wait 30 minutes and my new ones wait 5 minutes.

frostz417

Thogard wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Why would anyone who is good enough to have an inconveniently high MMR want to play with people who are low MMR (presumably unskilled or low-skilled)? That would be both boring for the talented player and horrible for the lower player.

I think something definitely needs to be done to shorten the queues for you guys (maybe condense the rankings to lessen the distribution?), but throwing you guys in with the rest of us plebs is not the answer. I don't really feel like being your helpless murder fodder.

Because I’m sick of waiting 30 minutes to play a single Bg game where most of the time it’s trash. This game does not have a big enough population to support a proper MMR system, let’s not forgot the countless flaws it has. Since zos lacks any competence to even make a system without thousands of flaws, better to just completely remove it entirely.

Are you on console? On PC my wait time went from 45 min to around 8 to 15 min max on my main.

Yes I’m on console. So our population isn’t as large as PC

You havent had the queue time patch. Just wait a week.

I’ve heard of that patch. Some pc people told me it’s hardly any different. One even went as far as to say “I used to wait 30 minutes, now I’m waiting 25 minutes!” lol