I've Learned to Loathe BGs

ol_BANK_lo

You know what a pain it is to single target any stam with whip or petrify??? They all run speed pots and swift traits and run in circles...and they know this. You can't do damage if you can't target them.

Again, I don't have any answers, and don't really support the swift trait nerf. It doesn't change anything. PVP, especially BGs just isn't cut out to be any class, any race, mag/stam. It's mostly 4 stam, shalks, and dawnbreakers; or throw in a mag sorc spamming endless fury on everyone.

Mag DK, and I'm sure other setups, are just painful. We don't do a ton of damage; we don't have an execute, DOTs get purged; healing is mediocre. We rely on CCs, which are useless with stam classes who run Forward Momentum, speed pots and swift traits.

Just a painful experience - one in which I am going to stop as soon as I get a couple of achievements.

ol_BANK_lo

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

You know what a pain it is to single target any stam with whip or petrify??? They all run speed pots and swift traits and run in circles...and they know this. You can't do damage if you can't target them.

Again, I don't have any answers, and don't really support the swift trait nerf. It doesn't change anything. PVP, especially BGs just isn't cut out to be any class, any race, mag/stam. It's mostly 4 stam, shalks, and dawnbreakers; or throw in a mag sorc spamming endless fury on everyone.

Mag DK, and I'm sure other setups, are just painful. We don't do a ton of damage; we don't have an execute, DOTs get purged; healing is mediocre. We rely on CCs, which are useless with stam classes who run Forward Momentum, speed pots and swift traits.

Just a painful experience - one in which I am going to stop as soon as I get a couple of achievements.

And it's not just targeting in small scale fights on flags. I literally can't do anything in Capture the Relic. I am trying to get the achievement for killing relic carriers. So I wait until someone has the flag and try to kill them. But all it ever is, is a speed pot, FM, swift stam toon who gets out of the CC and runs off and scores. What a boring game, and very difficult way for a Mag DK to get that achievement...just like trying to get Merciless on a Mag DK when the people who can get 4 quick kills in a row are Mag Sorc, stam with Dawnbreaker and Steel Tornado or Nightblades with burst damage and Impale. Ugh.

russelmmendoza

Thank the divines nobody complaining about my build.
Curse those damn steel balerenas.
Nerf them to oblivion.
Nyahahaha.

ecru

These issues will never be solved within the current 4v4v4 system. Allowing a full team of premades to queue against other full teams of pugs (due to the small team size) will create extremely imbalanced matches that allow an entire organized team to constantly focus down and/or backdoor disorganized pugs.

If the system were 8v8 or 12v12, a premade group of 4 would not have an entire team to coordinate with, only their premade. A group of 4 would not have nearly the same power in an 8v8 or 12v12 as they do in 4v4v4. Not even close. With proper matchmaking and no other high MMR premades in the queue, that high MMR premade group of 4 would be grouped with low MMR pugs and be placed against medium/high-ish MMR pugs on the opposite team. If another high MMR premade was in the queue, both teams would have a high MMR premade along with their pugs.

I don't think BGs will ever be especially popular or balanced or fun until the 4v4v4 system is completely scrapped and a two team system is implemented. Maybe someday, probably not though, sunk cost and all.

POps75p

why not have two randum game types?

1. teame. 2. pure solo
2.

coplannb16_ESO

moosegod wrote: »

Everyone here complaining about high AoE damage from shalks, tornados, and dawnbreakers. If only zos would introduce some sort of mechanic to reduce AoE damage that could be accessible to almost everyone... Kinda like minor and major protection but specifically for AoE. Surely that would be a welcome change based on the complaints in this thread.

Irony detected and ya the 25% reduction will help on these skills, but they also make all other aoe skills even less effective (Eruption, Wall of Elements, flame breath, even flames of oblivion, cause it is still flagged as aoe skill, splash damage from lit/2h heavy attacks, ...). if everything is reduced across the board the top-performers stay the same.

edit:

beside that I dislike these types of BGs/arenas in a MMO. If people want that why not play games designed for that? LoL, DOTA, CoD, World of Whatever...

heck, Id play Mechwarrior Online if I want to do that

ol_BANK_lo

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

You know what a pain it is to single target any stam with whip or petrify??? They all run speed pots and swift traits and run in circles...and they know this. You can't do damage if you can't target them.

Again, I don't have any answers, and don't really support the swift trait nerf. It doesn't change anything. PVP, especially BGs just isn't cut out to be any class, any race, mag/stam. It's mostly 4 stam, shalks, and dawnbreakers; or throw in a mag sorc spamming endless fury on everyone.

Mag DK, and I'm sure other setups, are just painful. We don't do a ton of damage; we don't have an execute, DOTs get purged; healing is mediocre. We rely on CCs, which are useless with stam classes who run Forward Momentum, speed pots and swift traits.

Just a painful experience - one in which I am going to stop as soon as I get a couple of achievements.

And it's not just targeting in small scale fights on flags. I literally can't do anything in Capture the Relic. I am trying to get the achievement for killing relic carriers. So I wait until someone has the flag and try to kill them. But all it ever is, is a speed pot, FM, swift stam toon who gets out of the CC and runs off and scores. What a boring game, and very difficult way for a Mag DK to get that achievement...just like trying to get Merciless on a Mag DK when the people who can get 4 quick kills in a row are Mag Sorc, stam with Dawnbreaker and Steel Tornado or Nightblades with burst damage and Impale. Ugh.

Same goes for Chaosball. In some cases stam just runs around the map. Just got done playing Chaosball where I almost never saw the ball. Stam just ran around, up and down, and just got in random fights around the map. There was a similar game I had where the other team timed running around with stam/speed, etc. and jumped off the map when they were about to die from the ball - timing it with their team waiting for the new ball spawn.

I really don't like nerfing, but maybe mobile games like Chaosball and Capture the Relic should neutralize the speed of everyone. It's tough enough for slow magic people to get from flag to flag in Dom and Crazy, but Chaos and Capture are impossible if the other teams are all stam and organized. Even when I'm on PUG teams that do this, I don't like it. Perhaps everyone is the same speed in mobile games???

ol_BANK_lo

I really can't take it on Mag DK and with PUGs. I literally just rage quit a Chaosball game where the other teams were all stam and just running around with ball and speed pots. I literally only saw the ball twice and got multi dawnbreakered if I got near. It was an entire game of chase the ball carrier. Flag games are just stupid in ESO with the discrepancy in speed - both Chaosball and Capture. I don't want to see a blanket nerf, cuz I hate that that is ZOS's only answer, but those games in particular need a neutralizer to mobility. I waited like 2 hours for a game and that's what I got. So dumb.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

ChunkyCat

Two hours. Damn, son.

ol_BANK_lo

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Two hours. Damn, son.

Yeah, it was just queued in background while I did other ***. I think people are off playing other games that have recently released.

ol_BANK_lo

Literally just got done with a Chaosball game 500-0-0. We lost. The other team had 2 templars, endless heals and Earthgore. The combined other team likely weren't great, but not really the point. A game mode that encourages no damage, super tankiness, endless healing ults and Earthgore. Sooooooooo dummmmmmmmbbbbbbbbb. Awful game mode for ESO. Period.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

ol_BANK_lo

Deathmatch is the only game mode that can't be completely exploited. Sure, the class differences, speed differences, etc. still exist. But as soon as you put an objective in play, everything gets exploited. I have been intentionally queueing up for everything but Deathmatch, because those are the modes I have achievements I'm working on, and the more I play, the more frustrating the exploits are. I usually run solo because of the time I have to jump on, which hurts...and my class really isn't helping.

brandonv516

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Deathmatch is the only game mode that can't be completely exploited. Sure, the class differences, speed differences, etc. still exist. But as soon as you put an objective in play, everything gets exploited. I have been intentionally queueing up for everything but Deathmatch, because those are the modes I have achievements I'm working on, and the more I play, the more frustrating the exploits are. I usually run solo because of the time I have to jump on, which hurts...and my class really isn't helping.

There's frustration on all ends.

-Objective game modes like CTR and Domination can be very stale when people avoid fighting and just capture empty locations.
-It can also be frustrating when a team decides to hold a relic when the score is 400-0-0 just so they can boost their scores/ego/block list.

-Chaosball can be very stupid chasing down a speedy/tanky/survivable carrier around the map while his teammates are pummeling you.
-Also the same can be said when an entire team gets in a fox hole and heals/guards/CCs any incoming enemies (usually without a strategy).

-In Deathmatch, premade groups of Stamdens/Stamsorcs/Stam-anything with a healer are going to dominate and ruin anyone's experience. At least in objective modes you stand a chance of splitting them up and winning the match.
-The biggest flaw is now gone in Deathmatch (Sigil). But it also created a major flaw as well. Where is the flow in the beginning? Going to the middle is just stupid and a death sentence for many.

For me it's a Love/Hate relationship. I probably wouldn't play ESO anymore without BGs but I also play less with the current state of BGs.

ol_BANK_lo

brandonv516 wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Deathmatch is the only game mode that can't be completely exploited. Sure, the class differences, speed differences, etc. still exist. But as soon as you put an objective in play, everything gets exploited. I have been intentionally queueing up for everything but Deathmatch, because those are the modes I have achievements I'm working on, and the more I play, the more frustrating the exploits are. I usually run solo because of the time I have to jump on, which hurts...and my class really isn't helping.

There's frustration on all ends.

-Objective game modes like CTR and Domination can be very stale when people avoid fighting and just capture empty locations.
-It can also be frustrating when a team decides to hold a relic when the score is 400-0-0 just so they can boost their scores/ego/block list.

-Chaosball can be very stupid chasing down a speedy/tanky/survivable carrier around the map while his teammates are pummeling you.
-Also the same can be said when an entire team gets in a fox hole and heals/guards/CCs any incoming enemies (usually without a strategy).

-In Deathmatch, premade groups of Stamdens/Stamsorcs/Stam-anything with a healer are going to dominate and ruin anyone's experience. At least in objective modes you stand a chance of splitting them up and winning the match.
-The biggest flaw is now gone in Deathmatch (Sigil). But it also created a major flaw as well. Where is the flow in the beginning? Going to the middle is just stupid and a death sentence for many.

All true. Well said.

On a separate note, ZOS really needs to not allow damage or healing from your own spawn.

ecru

pretty much every issue in this thread is due to the dumb 3 team system which also allows teams to be made up of an entire premade group.

none of these issues will ever be solved until a normal two team system is implemented and premades are limited to something like half of an actual team, think 8v8 with premades limited to groups of 4 and one premade per team.

asking for anything else is a total waste of time. zos screwed this one up from the start, sorry guys. been pvping in mmos for literally two decades now and battlegrounds in eso is the absolute worst, most inconsistent, and most unfun experience i've ever had.

the only group of people really "enjoying" bg's are full premades queueing against pugs.

Brittany_Joy

I play BGs and I currently suck at them but I don't expect to be top dog with little investment. Time hones my skill in BGs, I am definitely better today than I was yesterday. Perhaps, you just need to learn the ropes and find yourself a group.

ol_BANK_lo

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

I play BGs and I currently suck at them but I don't expect to be top dog with little investment. Time hones my skill in BGs, I am definitely better today than I was yesterday. Perhaps, you just need to learn the ropes and find yourself a group.

I literally have thousands of kills in BGs. I play on a level 36 Palatine. I also have peeps to run premades with...just don't want to have to. Some people I see in there only run premades and meta builds, which is frustrating. I run PvP gear, but I don't run the meta stam or healer builds. I run Mag DK, which is a slow DoT build by nature. I doesn't burst; it isn't fast. And that's fine. My issue in this thread is that is can be difficult if you don't run meta or premade to get anything really done.

I am trying to get some BG achievements in my solo time when not running other stuff with friends and guildies, and that's where I've noticed the problems.

DaveMoeDee

lucky_dutch wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

When BGs first came out, I really like the idea. My friends and I prefer small scale. It was a big part of why we like the sewers. But I can't just queue solo and get some good games in on the one toon I want to play on. At least one of the teams is guaranteed to be an organized premade with 3-4 stam all timing Dawnbreakers and spin-to-win. Literally every real group is the same thing. I usually prefer to solo queue in between doing other things, but even when I do team up with friends, steam-rolling through people gets old....but that doesn't seem to be the case for some groups that seem to endlessly want to steamroll people. It's those groups that have likely made less experienced people leave. I am not inexperienced, nor am I bad. But solo on a Mag DK is tough when the groups are heavily mismatched. It causes me not to want to play. I really am only playing at this point for a few achievements, but even then I am thinking it isn't worth the effort. Trying to find a fair game is tedious and miserable. Nighttime is the worst for premades, but even playing at 7:00 a.m., I am finding the same thing. These types of game modes in games that are more stock car-like (i.e. Call of Duty) make more sense. In there, I can hold my own in many cases. Everyone has the same weapons. Everyone dies the same way. ESO is really is best suited for premade or solo, but not both...as a general rule.

That's just my experience after spending a bit of time in there in the past year. It just isn't fun. It is literally Dawnbreakers and spin-to-win, a few sorcs who just spam execute or tanky people who just sit on flags and take 4 people to kill them. This type of game just doesn't lend itself well to Battlegrounds. Maybe other MMOs have faired better....not sure.

The issue is horrible, horrible no-CP balancing.

Pre-50 BGs is the best BG content in any MMO right now. Go make an alt, deck it out in a nice blue crafted set of your choice and enjoy. Don't bother with lvl 50 no-CP BGs, they're broken.

What if my only reason to want to do BGs is to get all the achievements on my Imperial DK tank? I guess I can respec to dual wield DD.

ol_BANK_lo

Or another reason to loathe BGs - one I don't see too often, but just happened. When one team is leading in Capture and has the flag they need to win and no one has their flag, but runs around for 5 min and plays Team Deathmatch just for fun and wastes all of our time. It is clear they are going to win; no one can contest them, but you either sit and wait, or run into the premade and die.....fun stuff.

Not sure how to combat this one....time limit on holding flag before reset???

ESO just isn't meant for a good battleground setup like some games. Too many exploits and obnoxious people.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel