Blatant scroll cross-faction cheating - Expect ZOS to ban at least 1 player (have video proof)

Dyngrin

AD just gave EP the campaign win with a simple form of CHEATING which makes a month of PvP campaign play meaningless for all factions and players:

AD captures the DC scroll from EP with much effort, then an AD player deliberately returns it to EP.

This is akin to a running back deliberately running the wrong way and scoring a safety for the opposing team. What is ZOS going to do about this!?

--Dyn

idk

Well, players have been playing with the scrolls in various ways since the first weeks of this game. There are some things Zos can do but they cannot stop what you have stated.

All it takes is few players agreeing upon something and work to make it happen. Heck, even one player can jinx it using an alt account even in the most stringent of efforts Zos could implement.

Savos_Saren

Yes! Let's see this!

Savos_Saren

Let me go out on a limb here:

There was a Blue Scroll waaaaaaay down too close to AD territory (let's say it was Drake) and EP kept defending that area. Now, AD needs to get points to move up toward making first place... and not being third place.

So, some beautiful- brilliant minded sexy Dragonknight (let's call him "Davos Daren") moved the scroll right up between DC and EP so that they'd fight over it... thus allowing AD to take Drake and start pushing upward on both EP and DC sides.

Now- this may be... I don't know... strategic? Let's hope such an amazing Dunmer exists out there.

#SeeTheForestThroughTheTrees

Vilestride

This is not cheating and is 100% acceptable gameplay. Stop whinging.

The best course of action for a scroll is not objective. It is the responsibility of the scroll runner to decide what is best and no-one elses. If you think you know what is best for a scroll, then you need to be the one picking it up.

ZoS will never take action against this because to do so they would have to assume motive and that cannot fairly be done.

Turelus

If you have a video showing a player deliberately running a scroll into another player or keep and "passing it" then there might be a case for something, send Brian, Gina & Jess as PM with the video.

If it's just a player using a scroll as bait or trolling to farm AP then there isn't really anything against this as long as they're playing legit in other ways.

ZOS doesn't do a great deal of policing in terms of Cyrodiil however, often you just have to suck up anything which is against the spirit of Cyrodiil and keep on going.

Dreyloch

Dyngrin wrote: »

AD just gave EP the campaign win with a simple form of CHEATING which makes a month of PvP campaign play meaningless for all factions and players:

AD captures the DC scroll from EP with much effort, then an AD player deliberately returns it to EP.

This is akin to a running back deliberately running the wrong way and scoring a safety for the opposing team. What is ZOS going to do about this!?

--Dyn

They will do nothing, Nada, Zilch, Zero, and any other word meaning the same. Been like this since release and ZoS DOES....NOT...CARE. They let the players work it out. Less than an hour later DC got their scroll back and chalman keep to boot. AD did help, but only because EP had Emp. So basically, it all worked out in the end. I could say more but ya know...naming and shaming while cheating is going on. /rolls eyes

Reverb

What you describe here has been happening since the game was new. It's not cheating and not bannable. It was a strategic move, and ultimately worked out better for everyone but EP.

Having the scroll in Chal motivated everyone to focus on the dethrone. Within an hour EP lost emp and the scroll was safely back in the temple. That only happened because of AD moving the scroll into EP hands.

Mazbt

I doubt there was any malice to it. I've seen the guy on AD since like forever.

Dyngrin

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Yes! Let's see this!

I'm glad you agree, Savos Saren, but I'm not allowed to name the player per ZOS's poor naming policy. Perhaps the player will post a reply to this thread and effectively give ZOS the finger.

Dyngrin

Reverb wrote: »

What you describe here has been happening since the game was new. It's not cheating and not bannable. It was a strategic move, and ultimately worked out better for everyone but EP.

Having the scroll in Chal motivated everyone to focus on the dethrone. Within an hour EP lost emp and the scroll was safely back in the temple. That only happened because of AD moving the scroll into EP hands.

A strategic move? I suppose the AD player was clairvoyant and knew EP would drop it at Chal, or was that yet another EP alt or friend who deliberately placed it at Chal instead of an inner keep so EP could hold it? I'm sure the player also foresaw the successful recapture of the scroll by DC shortly after, instead of EP holding it over night.

In any case, in the DAoC days no player would've ever acted against the spirit of the game because such behavior is bad for the long term health of the game, and AD will once again come in second at best in the campaign.

--Dyn

Beardimus

AP boosting / feeding. Cross alliance nefarious crap etc all ruins Cyrodiil.

Obvious troll scroll running too. I can see how there are some possible tactics with scroll movements but when it smells like a rat it normally is.

With the focus on PvP next patch will we hear more about alliance lock @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Feanor

Who cares for a campaign win in 2018?

Savos_Saren

Dyngrin wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

What you describe here has been happening since the game was new. It's not cheating and not bannable. It was a strategic move, and ultimately worked out better for everyone but EP.

Having the scroll in Chal motivated everyone to focus on the dethrone. Within an hour EP lost emp and the scroll was safely back in the temple. That only happened because of AD moving the scroll into EP hands.

A strategic move? I suppose the AD player was clairvoyant and knew EP would drop it at Chal, or was that yet another EP alt or friend who deliberately placed it at Chal instead of an inner keep so EP could hold it? I'm sure the player also foresaw the successful recapture of the scroll by DC shortly after, instead of EP holding it over night.

In any case, in the DAoC days no player would've ever acted against the spirit of the game because such behavior is bad for the long term health of the game, and AD will once again come in second at best in the campaign.

--Dyn

If the DC scroll remained at Drake- Blues and reds would continue to push down to AD. (We all know DC and EP love to farm AD at Alessia Bridge) If the scroll were placed up north- then DC and EP would fight while AD could recapture Drake and then push north. DC would also begin to focus EP for the scroll instead of focusing on AD.

Solid tactic that paid off. Intuitive- not clairvoyant.

RebornV3x

ZOS will probably not ban anyone especially if its PvP had while this situation sucks and is gamethrowing which is bannable in other games its not against TOS.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a few comments that were baiting in nature. This is a reminder to keep comments constructive. If you have screenshots or video evidence of questionable behavior, please submit it via the in game report system or via ticket on our website under the support section. Thank you for your understanding.

Telel

this one beleives that all who aren't rank 100 zone chat warriors can agree that those who need to resort to cross faction silliness aren't players with any real skill.

[Edit to remove off-topic content]

CyrusArya

Meh. If faction RP’ers take this pointless exercise known as the alliance war seriously, they should also probably consider that espionage and subterfuge are very valid tactics in war that have led to the downfall of many a kingdom.
.

React

At the end of the day, zos has no influence whatsoever on the campaigns, and as far as the ToS goes running a scroll to the opposite side of the map isnt against the rules. My favorite downtime activity in cyrodiil is running a scroll to the imperial city mote and feeding it to the slaughterfish. The reward for me is posts like this.

Telel

CyrusArya wrote: »

Meh. If faction RP’ers take this pointless exercise known as the alliance war seriously, they should also probably consider that espionage and subterfuge are very valid tactics in war that have led to the downfall of many a kingdom.
.

Khajiit must point out that this isn't a war. It's a game. One with very obvious objectives and intentions.

To say otherwise is merely the start of a straw elf argument. One which is easily set on fire. But then all Mer are incredibly flammable. Not to mention prone to being upset about the fact.

Furthermore it's not espionage or subterfuge being used here. It's exploiting a lack of population controls to give an already large population an easier time against a smaller force. Not to mention artificially inflating the AP gains of players.

PLease reference the mass bannings that occurred after midyear mayhem last year if you wish to see examples of the latter.

Lexxypwns

ITT: Inception

RobZha

Beardimus wrote: »

With the focus on PvP next patch will we hear more about alliance lock @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

That sounds really exciting.

Some of us like to log on to other characters in different alliances from time to time, especially if we have characters already perma-locked into different alliances of different classes that we don't always play. It can help to break up boredom at times, partly from just playing in different parts of the map.

I'd suggest that if they're going add a super-exciting alliance lock they also free up our characters to choose whatever alliance they want at the start of each campaign.

Some of us have also switched alliances over time, we shouldn't be punished for that by not being able to play our older characters in cyro when we want to.

Beardimus

RobZha wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

With the focus on PvP next patch will we hear more about alliance lock @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

That sounds really exciting.

Some of us like to log on to other characters in different alliances from time to time, especially if we have characters already perma-locked into different alliances of different classes that we don't always play. It can help to break up boredom at times, partly from just playing in different parts of the map.

I'd suggest that if they're going add a super-exciting alliance lock they also free up our characters to choose whatever alliance they want at the start of each campaign.

Some of us have also switched alliances over time, we shouldn't be punished for that by not being able to play our older characters in cyro when we want to.

It wouldn't be ZOS punishing you. It would be all the guys that use switching for nefarious reasons. The cheats.

I for one, and MANY others would be super excited about alliance lock. Even if it ws just for Sotha / Shor.

Maybe a 48 hrs lock out. Or maybe a step to turn off AP once you commit one alliance as main - I don't really care but the players wrecking decent play need stopping.

I get the case you make, but its the only case the pro switch camp make. And I'm sorry but stopping cheaters is more important. As boosting / feeding / scroll antics / emp flipping devalues the whole gig which has a bigger impact to player base than not being able to hop colours for 'fun'

RobZha

Beardimus wrote: »

I get the case you make, but its the only case the pro switch camp make. And I'm sorry but stopping cheaters is more important. As boosting / feeding / scroll antics / emp flipping devalues the whole gig which has a bigger impact to player base than not being able to hop colours for 'fun'

I get that it's annoying, just don't think I've hardly ever seen anything like it after being in there for around a year so it seems like a wide ranging change to all players just because of a few players acting like ***. That's maybe because I've only just started playing in vivec at times though and have mostly been in sotha, so maybe I've been less likely to notice it.

Elong

Telel wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Meh. If faction RP’ers take this pointless exercise known as the alliance war seriously, they should also probably consider that espionage and subterfuge are very valid tactics in war that have led to the downfall of many a kingdom.
.

Khajiit must point out that this isn't a war. It's a game. One with very obvious objectives and intentions.

To say otherwise is merely the start of a straw elf argument. One which is easily set on fire. But then all Mer are incredibly flammable. Not to mention prone to being upset about the fact.

Furthermore it's not espionage or subterfuge being used here. It's exploiting a lack of population controls to give an already large population an easier time against a smaller force. Not to mention artificially inflating the AP gains of players.

PLease reference the mass bannings that occurred after midyear mayhem last year if you wish to see examples of the latter.

The player who did the deed the OP refers to is AD through and through. Put the tin foil away kind Khajit.

KingExecration

Beardimus wrote: »

RobZha wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

With the focus on PvP next patch will we hear more about alliance lock @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

That sounds really exciting.

Some of us like to log on to other characters in different alliances from time to time, especially if we have characters already perma-locked into different alliances of different classes that we don't always play. It can help to break up boredom at times, partly from just playing in different parts of the map.

I'd suggest that if they're going add a super-exciting alliance lock they also free up our characters to choose whatever alliance they want at the start of each campaign.

Some of us have also switched alliances over time, we shouldn't be punished for that by not being able to play our older characters in cyro when we want to.

It wouldn't be ZOS punishing you. It would be all the guys that use switching for nefarious reasons. The cheats.

I for one, and MANY others would be super excited about alliance lock. Even if it ws just for Sotha / Shor.

Maybe a 48 hrs lock out. Or maybe a step to turn off AP once you commit one alliance as main - I don't really care but the players wrecking decent play need stopping.

I get the case you make, but its the only case the pro switch camp make. And I'm sorry but stopping cheaters is more important. As boosting / feeding / scroll antics / emp flipping devalues the whole gig which has a bigger impact to player base than not being able to hop colours for 'fun'

I understand what point you’re trying to get at but there’s one thing that’ll always remain. The people that’ll boost has their buddies already maining that campaign more than likely so it won’t hurt them. I personally think that faction locks won’t stop people from doing what they do.

People will still troll with the scrolls. People will still boost their buddy to emp. Only thing it’ll do is make people feel worse when I’m on my red and my old ad buddies and I farm blue because they send 40 people to a resource because a hand full of people took it. Rinse and repeat, new thread would be made.

Telel

Elong wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Meh. If faction RP’ers take this pointless exercise known as the alliance war seriously, they should also probably consider that espionage and subterfuge are very valid tactics in war that have led to the downfall of many a kingdom.
.

Khajiit must point out that this isn't a war. It's a game. One with very obvious objectives and intentions.

To say otherwise is merely the start of a straw elf argument. One which is easily set on fire. But then all Mer are incredibly flammable. Not to mention prone to being upset about the fact.

Furthermore it's not espionage or subterfuge being used here. It's exploiting a lack of population controls to give an already large population an easier time against a smaller force. Not to mention artificially inflating the AP gains of players.

PLease reference the mass bannings that occurred after midyear mayhem last year if you wish to see examples of the latter.

The player who did the deed the OP refers to is AD through and through. Put the tin foil away kind Khajit.

How does what you said make this video game a war and not a video game?

Also this one prefers bubble wrap. Less shiny but far more fun to make clothing out of before engaging in

qbit

I’ve never played PvP but this sounds legit. I mean if you’re in a war you will have defectors and traitors Can’t ban them in real life.... just kill them.

Okay never mind. @Telel had me at “straw elf argument”.

Carry on.

Maybe the real issue is that we need a site we can name and shame on. That would stop a lot of this crap so long as people supported their shaming with proof. But then I guess it’s just a username and name change token away from making that go away...

DeadlyRecluse

Dyngrin wrote: »

What is ZOS going to do about this!?

Nothing.

It's been pretty well established they consider this a legitimate use of game mechanics.

It's crappy, in situations where the points actually matter, but 90 percent of the time the points don't matter.

Lylith

CyrusArya wrote: »

Meh. If faction RP’ers take this pointless exercise known as the alliance war seriously, they should also probably consider that espionage and subterfuge are very valid tactics in war that have led to the downfall of many a kingdom.
.

and the death of many a spy.

spais operate with impunity in cyrodil, there are no consequences.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh I don't need any proof to belive in OP's story as I have seen this happen way too many times on Vivec (EU). And this is the worst kind of behaviour as you can do nothing about it. You can't kill such a player as there is no friendly - fire in eso. All you can do is to report that player... and yeah... It may or may not work (but still it is better than nothing). However the damage already has been done.

Btw. This is exactly what happens when you allow switching teams with ZERO penalty in a PvP game...

Imho - ZOS is just wastig time & effort when they try to make any class / skill / map balance. As long as people can exploit basic Cyrodiil pvp game rules - some of them will do so and ruin the game for everyone else. The point is - almost all changes done to Cyrodiil are irrelevant as long as people can simply swap teams at will like that.

Some simple ides I had to prevent scroll troling:

1. Make so only people who are logged as a "home" campaign can pick up scrolls.
2. Makes so only the first top 100 players can pick up scroll.
3. Make campaigns alliance locked so people can't switch teams.
(Keep in mind those are only ideas and they might not be perfect and may have some flaws).