What Do Healers Get Outta BG's?

exeeter702

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

Mojomonkeyman

Self-sustain/healing is very strong for about any setup in eso, the pure healing role is just not needed in BGs. The best healers usually have like 1m dmg done/300-500k healing done over the course of drawn out deathmatches. And they keep their mates up with that. I highly prefer a healer providing "just enough" healing on top of my own defensive maneuvers to allow me maximizing my burst windows or surviving coordinated burst, then swapping back to offensive pressure contrary to pure healing.

To have kill potential while off-healing is the part where true skill is showing - it requires awareness, understanding of multiple playstyles and timing. Pure healing not so much.

Blaqueflame

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

Ahh welll that's not me, and I still consider myself a dedicated healer. It depends who you are playing with really as well.Some grps have more survivability than others. Always happy to throw in some dps, cuz that's fun ... with a team that aren't throwing themselves into the uunwashed horde of red and dropping like flies 4 seconds later.

All in all, I am happy with my healing, and didn't really post this to have people critique whether healing is a thing. I know its a thing. I posted it to say as an activity healing is not well reflected in the current scoring system. It would appear developers agree, since they are changing that a bit. Yay.

ed7878

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

I saw that and I was like what? Still can't figure out what it means even after the google.

Anethum

I'm wondering, when people operate with pve roleplay in content where it work in another way.
I mean, when u go Maelstrom, or play solo in pvp or pve - u have no role at all.
When u play in small group in pvp - ofc u can be clear support, but what's the point of this if u can be partly healer and debuffer for example and partly do damage? Or tanky debuffer or buffer, who do damage...
Same for people who want do only damage around... what's about sustain?
What's about some support to your group?
Great groups differ from avarage, because every stam always try to keep uptime vigor for others around and every magicka heal or ward others under pressure.
Also, I can't get what's enjoy is from fighting as stucked 4 people group vs 1. Yes u kill him, but what u learn from that?
But, your group if one is a pure healer, 2 are pure dds and one tank or healr for example - u can't survive rather than run stucked always.
U closed in this behaviour.
And what will be shame for your group if he will kill whole group ... Killed such groups who done crit mistakes and saw how solo players killed whole groups many times.
Ofc we like different things, but healing is not the only destiny of u in pvp. Or damage, or tanking.
it's more complicated thing and it become interesting when competitive.

When u hear someone name u "healbot" - it means u are like girl at box match, who shows the numbers at a flag between matches.
U can be very beautiful, but you are far from taking part in fight. U just advertizing - healspammer and should not wonder of bad attitude from many others.
And extremly stupid this is in a big zergs, where are some rapid maneur spammer, some healbots etc. Fight become maybe more effective but at the same time much more primitive, when u just zerballing others

exeeter702

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

Ahh welll that's not me, and I still consider myself a dedicated healer. It depends who you are playing with really as well.Some grps have more survivability than others. Always happy to throw in some dps, cuz that's fun ... with a team that aren't throwing themselves into the uunwashed horde of red and dropping like flies 4 seconds later.

All in all, I am happy with my healing, and didn't really post this to have people critique whether healing is a thing. I know its a thing. I posted it to say as an activity healing is not well reflected in the current scoring system. It would appear developers agree, since they are changing that a bit. Yay.

Your post was why are healers not rewarded with adequate medals for their contribution. The answer is when healing in bg content, the better healer will always be the one with a strong score, because the better healer is the one that knows how to balance offense with support. Those same healers are going to completely outperform healers that sit in back and purely heal, when it comes to medals next patch. The goal post simply moved, pure healing will still be inferior for scores. Yay.

A dedicated healer should have offensive in some a capacity. I also want to stress that i dont consider cyrodil large group / zerg healing in anyway a serious demonstration of pvp healing which might help explain my frame of mind in the subject. I will always, as i have for many years, regard more intimate pvp scenarios where you really have to carry your weight as a healer and help your team seal the deal as the benchmark for which pvp healers should be gauged, not large scale endeavors.

Mureel

Blaqueflame wrote: »

Ok I preface this by saying I took a looong break from ESO and came back and found Battle Grounds (Love!) Imma a healer, its what I do - and I love small group pvp - so yay! However, having played hard for a few weeks and gradually regaining my feet - I have to say, looking at current achievements/rewards/titles and general feel special acknowledgement, Battle Grounds seem incredibly light on rewarding healer play AND overall defensive play.

Firstly there is the end of game score card - tells you how many kills you got, how many times you died, and how many kill assists you got. Dedicated healers look bad on these score cards because 1) we'll have very few, if any, kills 2) we're likely to have a high percentage of deaths, unless playing with a tight team and 3) we'll likely have few kill assists ... cuz we too busy healing our team. This is demoralizing cuz it makes it look like you're sitting picking your nose, and getting ganked, rather than performing 100's of k's worth of life saving heals that keep our deeps up to get those kills and assists.

If you look at achievements - there is a total of 31 and here's my reckoning on them:

4/31 - Healer based - we still require a solid team that plays tightly together and takes advantage of heals (versus ramboing in or running around like testosterone riddled porkchops)
1/31 - (Steady Centurion) Healer gets by default because its about taking dmg, and hey, that's what we do.
10/31 - Kill count based - healers entirely disadvantaged
3/31 - Rewarding Defensive play (better than no defensive play acknowledgement but ... healers are still disadvantaged as they are still kill count based rather than say time based)
11/31 - Rewarding group play -- Healers are indirectly rewarded if they play with a tight team, but unlikely to gain any advantages if they don't.
1/31 - Motif buying achievement -- Who cares

Achievements, titles, snazzy dye, and in general feeling like a valued member of a team, is not well supported by the game.

My view is to enjoy/reap any reward from BG as a healer, you MUST play with an organized 4 man team. I queue solo quite often, and occasionally get a good group but mostly its pretty hit or miss. A friend points out that BG's are so low on healers queuing up that often grps don't expect heals and so don't coordinate their play to receive them (so its kinda like throw yourself into the fray get a kill or two, die like dog, rez, rinse, repeat - not exactly a tactical or thinking way to play/win).

Heals help win wars. We purge/cleanse/ heal, replenish your resources, lend our ulti's - and throw out deeps when we can. We keep others alive to get their achievements, I think we should get considerably more achievements/recognition. While ZOS is at it, I don't think it would hurt to reward strategic, tactical/defensive game play either.

Thoughts?

Have slightly bad news, healers are devalued pretty much everywhere but trials and some dungeons (unless the dps are even half decent, they will go with 3 dps to skip mechanics) these days. DPS is so op, Self heals and shields are so strong, it's rendered us pretty redundant to be honest.

I wish you the best in your healing in BG.

Strider__Roshin

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

@exeeter702 are you PS4 NA by any chance?

ed7878

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

I saw that and I was like what? Still can't figure out what it means even after the google.

exeeter702

Daus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

@exeeter702 are you PS4 NA by any chance?

Yes i am

Strider__Roshin

exeeter702 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

@exeeter702 are you PS4 NA by any chance?

Yes i am

I know you then. You're a phenomenal healer bud! You typically get around 1mil in healing a match. This is Strider_Roshin btw. I'll be in Alaska until next month, but I look forward to doing some more BGs with ya when I get back.

exeeter702

Daus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The best "dedicated healers" are the ones that know when to pull back on the healing/support and provide additional pressure along side damage dealing teammates. The ones that go overboard with springs, mutagen, orbs etc etc while chilling in back saying to themselves that they are helping in bgs are generally not the healers you would want. Most pvp builds contain some form of self sustain, defensive options as if you go full glass cannon and rely on a healer to provide your entire survivability, you will be dead in very short order with 2 or 3 smart players wailing on you. Point being, healing good players generally means you are going to be healing players that know how to stay alive and are built to do that in some way so the overkill healing is absolutely "try hard" and "heal bot" status.

@exeeter702 are you PS4 NA by any chance?

Yes i am

I know you then. You're a phenomenal healer bud! You typically get around 1mil in healing a match. This is Strider_Roshin btw. I'll be in Alaska until next month, but I look forward to doing some more BGs with ya when I get back.

Oh yeah man whats up lol, same icon profile, i remember your previous forum acount. Yeah its really unfortunate my queues on my magnb are so long. Ive been playing around on alts.

Vapirko

MVP

idk

Outside of running with a well organized group (even just part of a group) I do not see what good a pure healer would be in a BG as the TTK is often pretty short and pugs generally run all around on their own.

merrypranxter

I do it bc I honestly enjoy it. And I got my squad of bg friends... we just hang out every night and do bgs. And I heal. Bc that’s just what I like to do.

Arkew

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

BNOC

Arkew wrote: »

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

Aren't you the guy that sits in stealth and plays a game of risk with your teammates health in order to abuse Crit medals?

Score literally means nothing and even on the post you made about abusing score as a healer, your team mates had died a total of 20+ times, yourself a couple and you lost the game by miles.

That makes you a pretty *** healer imo.

LinearParadox

Arkew wrote: »

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

Arkew

BNOC wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

Aren't you the guy that sits in stealth and plays a game of risk with your teammates health in order to abuse Crit medals?

Score literally means nothing and even on the post you made about abusing score as a healer, your team mates had died a total of 20+ times, yourself a couple and you lost the game by miles.

That makes you a pretty *** healer imo.

Oh i'm very sorry if i hurted you .

For your first info i not abuse the crits medal, i make what zos say in battleground he reward burst heal if they reach 7500 health , zos by creating Healing score system send to all the vision of healer they want.

So i not abuse the score system because i use all tool the game allow me to use.

I just simply make 100 points by just one pressure on one button but need sometime to reload.

And i'm not this kind of who wanna waste a Bol who heal around 4000-6000 hp on a guy who lost only 1000 health.

I'm a capitalhealms player.

brandonv516

BNOC wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

Aren't you the guy that sits in stealth and plays a game of risk with your teammates health in order to abuse Crit medals?

Score literally means nothing and even on the post you made about abusing score as a healer, your team mates had died a total of 20+ times, yourself a couple and you lost the game by miles.

That makes you a pretty *** healer imo.

Actually that's incorrect. Consider this:

Let's say the minimum to make BGs leaderboards (and sit comfortably) is 100k each week.

If Player A wants to earn a golden reward each week, scoring 10k a match, they would need to score that in 10 matches.

If Player B wants to do the same feat, by scoring 3k a match, they would need to do that in ~33 matches.

This allows Player A to not be quite as strained in committing their time to this game.

So it does mean something - It means you have more time for anything else.

Arkew

yeah i need less time to invest in pvp so i have free time for playing with my friend .

UppGRAYxDD

Just load screens currently... lots of load screens/disconnections/deserter penalties...

Czinczar

I always look at the healing scores at the end of match, and I am always impressed when someone is top of their team with damage/kills/assists but also has 300k healing. Players like that are invaluable in BGs. My main is magsorc, I do a lot of BGs, I have resto staff in second bar, with regen and life giver ulti, I always have a big healing score along with top damage score very often.

Arkew

if i have to choose to my build where i need to press 1 button for 100 or waste my time by playing like everyone i choose option 1

BNOC

brandonv516 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i not need friend because i'm the best healer for got very hight score who are just ridiculously overpowned

Aren't you the guy that sits in stealth and plays a game of risk with your teammates health in order to abuse Crit medals?

Score literally means nothing and even on the post you made about abusing score as a healer, your team mates had died a total of 20+ times, yourself a couple and you lost the game by miles.

That makes you a pretty *** healer imo.

Actually that's incorrect. Consider this:

Let's say the minimum to make BGs leaderboards (and sit comfortably) is 100k each week.

If Player A wants to earn a golden reward each week, scoring 10k a match, they would need to score that in 10 matches.

If Player B wants to do the same feat, by scoring 3k a match, they would need to do that in ~33 matches.

This allows Player A to not be quite as strained in committing their time to this game.

So it does mean something - It means you have more time for anything else.

I don't personally think it's worth anything but if the point is about getting a couple gold rewards then it's time lost.

In the time spent getting those rewards playing BG's, you could easily farm 10* the amount of mats simply collecting nodes if you really wanted gold mats, or farm 100k telvar in 30minutes and make enough for 20 of those gold mats.

I agree that the scoring system is *** poor (assuming that's what you're saying) there should be no rewards for time played, and (at least my platform) the leaderboards are full of unskilled, most-time-played players.

Arkew

i just proved by A+B i can broke the score system of bg

Lybal

Arkew wrote: »

i just proved by A+B i can broke the score system of bg

But you still can't beat my score

For the topic, if you goal is to make an high score, your build is the good one, but for actually being useful for your team, I'd reconsider, I didn't feel really safe playing with you, you're doing nothing but waiting for people to get low so you can get a burst heal from crouch stealth.

I'd take any other healers than you, so they can give me a more constant healing to allow me to play more aggressive and put more pressure, they could also give me bubbles, synergy like purify, buffs, tank and los for me, and deal a bit of damage.
I'd like to see healers rewarded for something else than burst healing, because I think your build proves very well that burst healing doesn't mean an efficient healer.

ketsparrowhawk

I usually run offense-focused builds. However, sometimes I wanna do some PVP.. but I also kinda wanna chill, you know? So I hop on my healer and hang back tossing out heals and buffs and whatnot. I'm helping.. I'm contributing.. but I'm not worried about kill counts. I'm not expecting to place high on the scoreboard. It's a lower-stress role for me and that's the draw.

Arkew

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I usually run offense-focused builds. However, sometimes I wanna do some PVP.. but I also kinda wanna chill, you know? So I hop on my healer and hang back tossing out heals and buffs and whatnot. I'm helping.. I'm contributing.. but I'm not worried about kill counts. I'm not expecting to place high on the scoreboard. It's a lower-stress role for me and that's the draw.

low stress when you got focused by a full premade team when you are in team of random good luck for being saved

me i have no stress because i'm in safe place generally

ketsparrowhawk

Arkew wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I usually run offense-focused builds. However, sometimes I wanna do some PVP.. but I also kinda wanna chill, you know? So I hop on my healer and hang back tossing out heals and buffs and whatnot. I'm helping.. I'm contributing.. but I'm not worried about kill counts. I'm not expecting to place high on the scoreboard. It's a lower-stress role for me and that's the draw.

low stress when you got focused by a full premade team when you are in team of random good luck for being saved

me i have no stress because i'm in safe place generally

Happens sometimes but my point is I'm not nearly as fixated on the scores at the end when I'm a healer, because I already know my score will be last on the team as a healer. So my attitude towards the match is much more relaxed. And if I'm on a decent team with decent damage, I really don't have to worry about getting focused too much. And I always pack some offense as well just in case.