2H Light Attack Nerf Needs Removal

mr_wazzabi

Ok so ZOS dropped the bombshell recently, stating that they have no time to do ckass balance and only have the time balance light and heavy attacks and the Psyjic skill line.

The 2H light attack issue counts in this realm.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you please give the 2H community a response on why 2H light attacks were nerfed to become the weakest in the game when 2H is the weakest pve dps weapon?

It's not pvp as light attacks never had a huge impact in that realm.

On live 2H light attacks are ever so slightly stronger than other weapons. You should leave it this way as that bridges the gap between 2h and dw as well as destro staff

Asardes

They probably reduced the damage slightly compared to other weapons because they have AoE from Forceful passive. IMO all light attacks should have the same base damage and scaling with stats regardless of weapon type, since they are instant.

Avran_Sylt

This was likely done to balance the damage output of 2H weaving in PvE. As in PvE weaving rotations, the number of light attacks between 2H and DW are the same.

As it stands on the PTS, on a totally unmodified character, 2H and DW (Golded, Powered Traits) weapons have the exact same light attack damage, without any passives or anything.

This is the first iteration. Balance still needs to be met, as 2H light attacks are generally under-powered with the DW ability to mix and match certain weapon traits/enchantments.

This is namely with combinations like:
Nirnhorned-Infused
(Infused bug that also effects ICD of the other weapon)

Whose trait/enchantment combinations allow for overall higher LA weaving DPS.

This could be solved in a band-aid manner by buffing 2H LA damage, or the more time consuming method:
Rebalance enchantment values for 2H (increase enchantment potency on 2H, the same way they do with Traits).
And address the DW Infused bug that reduces the other weapons enchant ICD as well.

The above will take a considerably larger amount of time to do properly, meaning 2H might be stuck with annoying LA DPS for a while. Or, the band-aid applied first, then removed once the Enchantment/Trait mix/matching has been addressed.

mr_wazzabi

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

This was likely done to balance the damage output of 2H weaving in PvE. As in PvE weaving rotations, the number of light attacks between 2H and DW are the same.

As it stands on the PTS, on a totally unmodified character, 2H and DW (Golded, Powered Traits) weapons have the exact same light attack damage, without any passives or anything.

This is the first iteration. Balance still needs to be met, as 2H light attacks are generally under-powered with the DW ability to mix and match certain weapon traits/enchantments.

This is namely with combinations like:
Nirnhorned-Infused
(Infused bug that also effects ICD of the other weapon)

Whose trait/enchantment combinations allow for overall higher LA weaving DPS.

This could be solved in a band-aid manner by buffing 2H LA damage, or the more time consuming method:
Rebalance enchantment values for 2H (increase enchantment potency on 2H, the same way they do with Traits).
And address the DW Infused bug that reduces the other weapons enchant ICD as well.

The above will take a considerably larger amount of time to do properly, meaning 2H might be stuck with annoying LA DPS for a while. Or, the band-aid applied first, then removed once the Enchantment/Trait mix/matching has been addressed.

@Daus did a test and found 2H light attacks weaker than on live.

I made another thread about this a few weeks ago and someone tested dw vs 2h. Dw light attacks hit for about 200-500 more on average, which is small, but doesn't change the fact that they are indeed stronger.

This increases the gap between the weapon types when there shouldn't be one.

mr_wazzabi

Here is a test done by @Leemado

The difference is HUGE

Leemado wrote: »

I did a little test of stamina weapons because i wanted to see how bad the nerf to 2H light attacks was. I did the comparison using CP160 blue decisive weapons (2H, DW and Bow). I list individual light attacks values and DPS against precursor only doing light attacks:

2H:

• Normal light attack: 2902
• Precursor only light attacking: 4866 DPS

Bow:

• Normal light attack: 3617 ~ 4145 *
• Precursor only light attacking: 8033 DPS

DW:

• Normal light attack: 3467
• Precursor only light attacking: 7119 DPS
• DW individual light attacks do 20% more damage than 2H attacks.
• DW attacks are faster than 2H
• Light attack DPS considering speed of DW seems to be 46% more than 2H

* Bow light attacks change a lot usually starts low and climbs to 4145 and remains there, I think it is Hawk eye passive.
I don’t understand the reason to nerf 2H weapons this way. This isn’t balance, this is crippling the less used weapon in PVE. If this is done because of all the people using 2H in pvp, this won’t change it. Changing light attacks won’t have a big impact in PVP but will make 2H even less useful in PVE.

Avran_Sylt

@mr_wazzabi

Where are you getting 200-500 more? Is this from just pure LA spam? I'm only seeing about a 40 damage difference per light attack. (Dual Wield Expert)

Derra

Personally i haven´t been able to replicate per hit dmg difference between 2h and DW given same stats on a character and passives taken out of the equation.

DMG differences result from different attackspeed for me.

Asardes

LA from 2W will hit harder in practice even if the scaling formula is the same due to the passives:
- Dual Wield Expert - will actually count a bit less next patch due to the increasing stamina scaling, but wearing otherwise identical setup, one with 2H the other with 2W you'll have slightly higher WD on the latter
- Slaughter - not sure if it affects LA/HA, but other passives and sets whose tool tip say "ability" or "attack" will buff light and heavy attacks as well
- Twin Blade and Blunt - LA/HA will get their damage buffed by %, have a % chance of producing a bleed or % critical chance increase depending on weapon used so they will do much more damage.

Avran_Sylt

@Asardes

With Dual Wield Expert, the bonus is about 40 WD. (but goes across all abilities), Likely balanced against the Follow Up 2H passive.

Slaughter does effect DW LA attacks. 2H has no counterpart, but the slot taken is Battle Rush.

Twin Blade and Blunt has the Heavy Weapons 2H counterpart. They cancel out.

mr_wazzabi

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

Where are you getting 200-500 more? Is this from just pure LA spam? I'm only seeing about a 40 damage difference per light attack. (Dual Wield Expert)

See my repost from another thread with @Leemado 's data