"Power" whip.

ak_pvp

Don't get me wrong, i love this skill, the animation, the proc, the extra damage. Its the only remaining staple of the MDK. but does any DK main feel like (similar to frags) it has been a little beat up over the time. It is now notoriously easy to avoid, laughably so.

Before even the whipping starts, it can be avoided by the simple use of immunities, no other "special interaction" burst has that. (Merciless, frags, POTL) and don't get me wrong, this is fair enough. I don't want the permatalons DK back who could root you whilst still in the roll out of the other one, and as I said, the way it performs is logical, and I want that special oomf when it hits occasionally, full power whip rotations looked goofy as heck.

Good job, you CC'd the enemy, now what? You whip. In many cases, your story ends here. If it was a soft CC like talons, it will have been rolled, purged, streaked or cloaked, and the offbalancer does not land. Always next time, yes? But wait, what if it did land? Maybe you used fossilize and still have them in your grasp.

Congratulations, through the fruits of your labor and beating the fossilize button like it t-bagged you, you will be rewarded with an aesthetically pleasing, hard hitting, nice healing lash of power... Except you aren't. The whip is dodged, setting you with a hard 3s cooldown, with a 1s window to try again which is ultimately wasted because if you use any other ability its over.

Now then, what can be done to help this?

Well, the obvious would to make it undodgable again, its not as hard or ranged as merciless, then it'd be more in line with something like POTL, which's main part is unavoidable, but can be nullified in other ways. The other alternative would be to instead have it proc on offbalance and a normal CC, but maintain the cooldown. That way, you could set an enemy offbalance for content like PvE/vMA or using interrupts to proc it, but if you were to root/fossilize them you could have the power whip without the setup lash, therefor giving a guarantee to land it occasionally with fossilize (having longer CC immunity and pots) but a small chance to land it with a root too, (Less chance, but roots are more frequent) It remains dodgable, but is more reliable to time.

Also: It'd help with finishing off, considering the lack of execute, and using leap as a defacto finisher is a bit effy.

Thoughts?

usmcjdking

Completely and utterly unnecessary.

A free cast skill that has a 5 digit damage AND healing tooltip on a 3 second cooldown and a class that doesn't not struggle to activate it?

Yeah no thanks.

ak_pvp

usmcjdking wrote: »

Completely and utterly unnecessary.

A free cast skill that has a 5 digit damage AND healing tooltip on a 3 second cooldown and a class that doesn't not struggle to activate it?

Yeah no thanks.

PvP. If it does 5 digit damage you are doing something really wrong. Also, play DK a bit, activating is OK, but play against any stam build, heavy or not, and it'll be missery.

Like I said, its still decently strong, but look at the flurry of merciless buffs and the constant nerfs to PL and DK in general, and you'll see what I mean. (Many justified root nerfs, the dodgable and hard cooldown it got last patch, no finisher to make up for it, ) I'd even give up the healing.

inb4 it stuns. Most useless change ever.

Minalan

I think it should have kept the extra long heal duration bug of the last patch.

With all of the extra damage flying around in Summerset (light attacks, sload dots, etc), it should probably get a little something. Another tick on the heal maybe?

J18696

Nothing wrong with it it's a free cast you get the heal even if they dodge it and deals more dmg

usmcjdking

ak_pvp wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Completely and utterly unnecessary.

A free cast skill that has a 5 digit damage AND healing tooltip on a 3 second cooldown and a class that doesn't not struggle to activate it?

Yeah no thanks.

PvP. If it does 5 digit damage you are doing something really wrong. Also, play DK a bit, activating is OK, but play against any stam build, heavy or not, and it'll be missery.

Like I said, its still decently strong, but look at the flurry of merciless buffs and the constant nerfs to PL and DK in general, and you'll see what I mean. (Many justified root nerfs, the dodgable and hard cooldown it got last patch, no finisher to make up for it, ) I'd even give up the healing.

inb4 it stuns. Most useless change ever.

I played plenty of DK.

Whatever issues you have I seemingly don't have. Wings snare immunity for 2 seconds it about all mag DK needs.

NyassaV

usmcjdking wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Completely and utterly unnecessary.

A free cast skill that has a 5 digit damage AND healing tooltip on a 3 second cooldown and a class that doesn't not struggle to activate it?

Yeah no thanks.

PvP. If it does 5 digit damage you are doing something really wrong. Also, play DK a bit, activating is OK, but play against any stam build, heavy or not, and it'll be missery.

Like I said, its still decently strong, but look at the flurry of merciless buffs and the constant nerfs to PL and DK in general, and you'll see what I mean. (Many justified root nerfs, the dodgable and hard cooldown it got last patch, no finisher to make up for it, ) I'd even give up the healing.

inb4 it stuns. Most useless change ever.

I played plenty of DK.

Whatever issues you have I seemingly don't have. Wings snare immunity for 2 seconds it about all mag DK needs.

IMo it doesn't even need that but I don't see too much harm in it so why not

Skoomah

For far too long, if you encountered a mag DK, you would get perma rooted and melted with fossilize + talons + whip + whip + fossilize + talons + whip + whip. Defensive measures included 1 break free and at least 2 roll dodges. For a Stam class, you were probably out 1/3 of your Stam between the cc breaks and self heals. For a mag class, your Stam pool was probably depleted. All the while the spammed whips are hitting for 7k each. Add in proc sets and that's easily 10k-12k burst easy. And remember, this is all repeatable and spammable.

Mag DKs used this playstyle very effectively. And when you tried to fight back, you would encounter perma blocking. And the heals on a DK are incredible and they are only getting better next patch. Right now they just have to get claws on multiple enemies and they get perfectly timed burst heals as one enemy goes down after another.

This is what ZOS did to the game on a global level to counter this immortal playstyle. They removed shuffle from heavy armor builds. They reworked the block cost mechanic.

This is what ESO players did to counter this immortal playstyle. The proliferation of builds that have defile, use bleeds, roam around cyrodiil in larger groups, get tankier themselves to the point they can't even kill anyone on their own anymore and require at least 2 people to take them down.

There's consequences for overpowered playstyles. I don't blame mag DKs for playing the class as strongly as they can, but the goal should always be competitiveness and overpowered. Look yourself in the mirror and admit why ZOS made the changes the way they did.

Mag DK encounters were abusive for the opponent and still is.

ak_pvp

Skoomah wrote: »

For far too long, if you encountered a mag DK, you would get perma rooted and melted with fossilize + talons + whip + whip + fossilize + talons + whip + whip. Defensive measures included 1 break free and at least 2 roll dodges. For a Stam class, you were probably out 1/3 of your Stam between the cc breaks and self heals. For a mag class, your Stam pool was probably depleted. All the while the spammed whips are hitting for 7k each. Add in proc sets and that's easily 10k-12k burst easy. And remember, this is all repeatable and spammable.

Mag DKs used this playstyle very effectively. And when you tried to fight back, you would encounter perma blocking. And the heals on a DK are incredible and they are only getting better next patch. Right now they just have to get claws on multiple enemies and they get perfectly timed burst heals as one enemy goes down after another.

This is what ZOS did to the game on a global level to counter this immortal playstyle. They removed shuffle from heavy armor builds. They reworked the block cost mechanic.

This is what ESO players did to counter this immortal playstyle. The proliferation of builds that have defile, use bleeds, roam around cyrodiil in larger groups, get tankier themselves to the point they can't even kill anyone on their own anymore and require at least 2 people to take them down.

There's consequences for overpowered playstyles. I don't blame mag DKs for playing the class as strongly as they can, but the goal should always be competitiveness and overpowered. Look yourself in the mirror and admit why ZOS made the changes the way they did.

Mag DK encounters were abusive for the opponent and still is.

What you are saying I already prefaced with, the root changes were absolutely justified, you could effectively never get out of a root because nothing gave immunity. However:

Permablock doesn't exist anymore, it's barely sustainable 1v1, assuming you build into it and don't use stam elsewhere. DK had its class defense ruined so that most don't even use it. (imagine cloak being as limited as wings, you are invisible and can only cloak 4 attacks in your general direction before it breaks.)

Every stam class has root immunity, and a few mag classes have ways to deal with it. Then, they decided to make powerlash dodgable and have a hard cool down. Should have checked the DK threads last/this pts, easily 3/4 of lashes miss, because a root naturally means a roll. And since they won't revert changes, shortening the need for the setup lash would be better.

As for abusive playstyles, yeah, absolutely, similar to cripple, fear nbs, or encase, runeprison sorc in group, or snipe spammers. Abusive is in the eye of the beholder.

Strider__Roshin

Never thought I'd see the day when someone would ask for this move to be buffed. This ability hits hard, harder than incap (the tool tips are similar, but the actual damage done is higher due to concentration >>> agility). This move is in no need of buffing.

ak_pvp

Daus wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the day when someone would ask for this move to be buffed. This ability hits hard, harder than incap (the tool tips are similar, but the actual damage done is higher due to concentration >>> agility). This move is in no need of buffing.

Its not what it hits for, I have had 10k power lashes on super squishy sorcs, but the fact that it doesn't hit against those it should. As said, it is already easily evadable before it is setup fully, then they stupidly made it evadable again. Imagine if you could dodge POTL's/curses/wrath's second hit too, or completely shut down a merciless or frag proccing before the hit. Whip is the only ability of that style that has two checks. (AND A *** COOLDOWN)

It got nerfed too hard whilst things like merciless got a buff. Hence it should be unnerfed. Just check the DK thread for last PTS. It was basically the DK finisher, and now we have nothing, not an execute, nothing. Every class has DKs fancy stuff, chains, hard CCs, every class has a spammable. So either they give DK a worthwhile execute, or they make whip actually hit.