Should Cloak be broken by DoT's?

MajBludd

So, cloak in "the right hands" is op. Doesn't that apply to many class skills? So, let's punish the less skilled players by nerfing skills that elite players use extremely well.

The problem is people make a build, think it's awesome. Then they get ruined by a nb so they make a nerf thread. Why not learn to use detect pots, mage light, or if you have a nb in your group, piercing mark. All of these counters work. I've used them and have had them used against me.

You need to take into account class passives as well when it comes to stealth.

technohic

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

No. Breaking cloak would make it not useable.

What it should do is either still damage without breaking cloak or; if it’s going to suppress damage, it should suppress heals as well.

Jade1986

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

vrine wrote: »

Literally being able to escape undetected is part of the Nightblade class. If DoTs managed to break cloak, they'd basically never be able to use it.

That's not true...

You'd simply have to cleanse/purge the DoT just like anyone else would have to before Cloaking...

Except no other class has cloak built into it as a vital part of the class. NB does. It used to break cloak, and it made it USELESS.

MajBludd

Wasn't it just fixed with dragon bones? It's why people played another class or adjusted their nb builds for it.

Captain8504

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

As annoying as nightblades are in pvp...i dont think cloak should be messed with...with all the abilities/potions that shows enemies that are cloaked, it would make the class useless.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

technohic wrote: »

if it’s going to suppress damage, it should suppress heals as well.

Now I like this idea...a lot.

IMHO, that would do wonders for restoring balance to Cloak...

My DoT's cant get to you? Fine...your heals cant get to you either.

Maura_Neysa

EtonZilla wrote: »

My MAG NB got a DOT from NPC today. WHen I CLOAKED to test this topic, my NB kept dropping from Cloak before the 3sec timer due to DOTs every 1 sec.

So ... DOTs DO cancel CLOAK.

NO THEY DOENT, you became partially visible just like if you cast a DoT, however YOU ARE STILL CLOAKED. Play any other Class AT ALL in Cryodiil. Watch it from the other side. its a millisecond flash and a damage number. You don't have to cast Cloak again, you are still invisible, its still completely effect means of escape. IF you're good enough to use it.

See the EMPTY SPACE with damage numbers? That's a frigging Cloaked NB with my DoT on him. As soon as my damage numbers disappear, that NB is gone again.

Princess_Ciri

DoTs already DO break cloak wtf is this nonsense.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

MajBludd wrote: »

The problem is people make a build, think it's awesome. Then they get ruined by a nb so they make a nerf thread. Why not learn to use detect pots, mage light, or if you have a nb in your group, piercing mark. All of these counters work. I've used them and have had them used against me.

You need to take into account class passives as well when it comes to stealth.

But this isn't the case at all as I have more success (ironically) against Nightblades than any other class...

Nevertheless, my success against Nightblades doesn't change what I've observed and personally faced from Nightblades...


Now maybe my idea in this thread is the wrong one; I like the idea of Cloak suppressing Healing much more than DoT's breaking Cloak...

IMHO, Cloak is overperforming and something should be done to tone it down...

Savos_Saren

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Sugaroverdose

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

Sugaroverdose

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

It was nerfed because of zerg spamming it, if it will be made single target it may become better

TheDoomsdayMonster

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

It was nerfed because of zerg spamming it, if it will be made single target it may become better

That's exactly what I would do with it:

Morph 1: Self Purge...cheap cost.
Morph 2: Small AoE Purge...expensive cost.

Sugaroverdose

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

It was nerfed because of zerg spamming it, if it will be made single target it may become better

That's exactly what I would do with it:

Morph 1: Self Purge...cheap cost.
Morph 2: Small AoE Purge...expensive cost.

Actually it was terrible when it was 2x cheaper, because removing 2 negatives just not enough, night blade mark places 3 negatives and mark by itself is third in list

Azurya

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

@TheDoomsdayMonster and anyother
be carefull what you ask for, because if cloak would be deminished by DoT, we defacto call for a massive increase in value for DoTs!
Because if the abilities from DoTs get this abilitiy too, it is not logic if it would be only for cloak, but it should then also interrupt any other ability like root, other DoT, like bleed, poison, burning. That would just be fair to all, and would cause an massive increase in the use of DoTs, which functions then not only as causing Dmg but also like a Negate!

That would cause a whole lot of rebalancing abilities! @ZOS too!

Sharee

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

DoTs already DO break cloak wtf is this nonsense.

Abilities that apply a DOT do break cloak (assuming they are AOE and do not need a target), but the DOT itself does not.

For example DK volatile armor sprays spikes around the DK when used which damage all enemies around him and puts a DOT on everyone who got hit. The initial spike spray does break cloak on anyone hit, but if that player then uses cloak, the DOT that was applied by the spikes no longer breaks cloak (the ticks do 0 damage to a cloaked target).

danno8

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

DDuke wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

DoTs should continue ticking even when the Nightblade is invisible. But they shouldn't break cloak, otherwise, cloak is as good as useless.

I think most people, NB's included, agree this is the way it should work with cloak and DoT's.

I don't know why ZoS hasn't figured this out yet, but my guess is that they used to try to code for this but were having so many issues making DoT's not reveal the NB that they just gave Cloak carte blanc ability to negate all DoT's.

Yes, but again: DW & Bow focused builds do not have skills like Rally to recover with, meaning getting to low health with PI or DBOS on you would be 100% certain death.

Currently cloak acts as a "damage shield" for these builds, so in order for that to happen ZOS would have to:

1. Move Rally to Fighters Guild.
2. Make Cloak provide a heal over time effect while active to offset atleast one strong DoT (e.g. PI or DBOS).
3. Give these builds some other way to survive (after all, they can't dodge those DoT ticks).

I'm not convinced that DW and Bow builds can't just keep Vigor rolling while cloaked (which are currently critting 100% while cloaked).

Maybe DW and Bow build need to accept that the highly offensive setup those two weapons put together make have the trade-off that they are more vulnerable to damage? Lord knows my Templar makes those build sacrifices every day. If I want more damage I am way more vulnerable.

In any case, 100% suppression is too much. Maybe Dot's should still do 50% damage while cloaked. Something! 100% suppression is just way over the top.

KiraTsukasa

I don't do PvP, so I have no real stake in this, but if I'm hiding in a bush and I start bleeding... I'm still hiding in a bush.

DDuke

danno8 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

DoTs should continue ticking even when the Nightblade is invisible. But they shouldn't break cloak, otherwise, cloak is as good as useless.

I think most people, NB's included, agree this is the way it should work with cloak and DoT's.

I don't know why ZoS hasn't figured this out yet, but my guess is that they used to try to code for this but were having so many issues making DoT's not reveal the NB that they just gave Cloak carte blanc ability to negate all DoT's.

Yes, but again: DW & Bow focused builds do not have skills like Rally to recover with, meaning getting to low health with PI or DBOS on you would be 100% certain death.

Currently cloak acts as a "damage shield" for these builds, so in order for that to happen ZOS would have to:

1. Move Rally to Fighters Guild.
2. Make Cloak provide a heal over time effect while active to offset atleast one strong DoT (e.g. PI or DBOS).
3. Give these builds some other way to survive (after all, they can't dodge those DoT ticks).

I'm not convinced that DW and Bow builds can't just keep Vigor rolling while cloaked (which are currently critting 100% while cloaked).

Sure they can, but Vigor isn't as strong as people make it out to be - with 4k weapon damage I'm healing for an average 1,5k/second with it. Needless to say, DoTs like Poison Injection & DBOS outdamage that by a significant margin even alone and having to cast Vigor before cloak makes the whole functionality much slower & leaves you vulnerable to burst.

Builds with Rally don't have to worry about that, they cloak & heal back to full with Rally which is always up with its 33 second duration.

And no, Vigor heals aren't critting for 100% while cloaked if you have but a single DoT effect ticking anywhere while cloaked (axe bleed, poisoned status effect, PI, Rending Slashes/Blood Craze... any DoT that can crit).
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

For most builds it is a mistake to pick the crit morph of cloak as it does basically nothing.

danno8 wrote: »

Maybe DW and Bow build need to accept that the highly offensive setup those two weapons put together make have the trade-off that they are more vulnerable to damage? Lord knows my Templar makes those build sacrifices every day. If I want more damage I am way more vulnerable.

In any case, 100% suppression is too much. Maybe Dot's should still do 50% damage while cloaked. Something! 100% suppression is just way over the top.

How are DW and Bow setups "highly offensive setups"? You can stack just as much damage with 2H on off bar (or main bar), DW/Bow is only BiS for PvE DPS.

Difference is that with 2H you get awesome passives & possibly the strongest burst heal in the game while losing any hope of not playing a meta build.

I don't think we need to force more people into slotting 2H.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Can DoTs go though Shields too then cause it’s fair that the poison from my Arrow that’s hits your skin is stopped by a magic shield outside your body.

Murador178

danno8 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

DoTs should continue ticking even when the Nightblade is invisible. But they shouldn't break cloak, otherwise, cloak is as good as useless.

I think most people, NB's included, agree this is the way it should work with cloak and DoT's.

I don't know why ZoS hasn't figured this out yet, but my guess is that they used to try to code for this but were having so many issues making DoT's not reveal the NB that they just gave Cloak carte blanc ability to negate all DoT's.

Yes, but again: DW & Bow focused builds do not have skills like Rally to recover with, meaning getting to low health with PI or DBOS on you would be 100% certain death.

Currently cloak acts as a "damage shield" for these builds, so in order for that to happen ZOS would have to:

1. Move Rally to Fighters Guild.
2. Make Cloak provide a heal over time effect while active to offset atleast one strong DoT (e.g. PI or DBOS).
3. Give these builds some other way to survive (after all, they can't dodge those DoT ticks).

I'm not convinced that DW and Bow builds can't just keep Vigor rolling while cloaked (which are currently critting 100% while cloaked).

Maybe DW and Bow build need to accept that the highly offensive setup those two weapons put together make have the trade-off that they are more vulnerable to damage? Lord knows my Templar makes those build sacrifices every day. If I want more damage I am way more vulnerable.

In any case, 100% suppression is too much. Maybe Dot's should still do 50% damage while cloaked. Something! 100% suppression is just way over the top.

again the crit cloak myth pls play it - nobody even runs crit cloak...

Azurya

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

to satisfy your focus on nerfing cloak we should work over all abilities??
lets be clear, cloak doesn´t do any dmg, it crits in one morph, but as crit is no longer that strong, all said. in the other morph it reduces your dmg taken by 8% for max 5 secs after cloak ends, dmg you take during cloak is not diminished!
and what exactly is the problem!? I have never seen ppl complaining about streaking sorcs?
In cloak, which lasts laughable 2,5 secs, you can never ever gain full stats again! In stealth, with the right gear, yes, but well stealth is available for all and everyone!
and see my previous post, concerning all things that should be changed too, to bring all and everything in line once again!

Maura_Neysa

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I’m not sure why people are complaining that it’s unfair to suggest that a NB should have to purge a DOT. Yeah- I understand that they don’t have a class purge- but neither does a DK. And DKs are supposed to be “DOT builds”. So how is it fair that a NB can sneak up and hit a DK with Major Defile (which renders our self heals almost useless), do a heavy hitting combo, and then cloak to completely ignore our Burning Embers DOT?

Then the NB can completely reposition to rinse and repeat. All the while- the DK has had to use the extremely expensive Purge to try to heal up with our already ridiculously expensive skills...

I completely agree with you; utterly and completely...

I think that if my idea were to make it ingame, the Magicka Cost of Purge should be reduced to compensate...

Purge is terrible and useless even for magicka nightblade, tested right after cloack nerf when purge wasn't cost 2x of itself.

The ability can always be modified to make it worthwild...

It was nerfed because of zerg spamming it, if it will be made single target it may become better

That's exactly what I would do with it:

Morph 1: Self Purge...cheap cost.
Morph 2: Small AoE Purge...expensive cost.

Afraid its become to critical of a skill in trials for that to ever happen

Vietfox

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

If that changes i want sorcs not to be able to shieldstack as well.

Gothrock

Oh, you dont look like Doomsday Monster when whining about already broken ability.

But ok, I agree with that, after it will be impossible to apply shield, roll dodge, block and cast BoL with DoT on you.

Drdeath20

Yes, Cloak should be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

Its comming

kypranb14_ESO

No, Cloak should not be broken by Damage over Time abilities...

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Nightblades put up with cloak being broken by EVERYTHING for years. It was virtually useless. No WAY should cloak be made less effective.

So are you saying that despite the fact that it makes no sense to be able to Cloak out while having an active Damage over Time effect on you, that you should be able to Cloak out while DoT'ed anyway?

Trying to make sense or logic work in a game with Magic?

Magic makes nonsense make sense. lol

It's Magic