Why are people so against crown crates exactly? (I now know why)

billp_ESO

First, I want everything in the game to be obtainable by playing the game. Any mount should be able to be acquired by playing the game.

If you don't have the time, and/or do have money, you can skip playing the game by simply buying the item from the store. I don't like it, but this is acceptable. At least they aren't selling weapons and armor in the store, yet.

But if you can't even buy it, and have to gamble for a chance to get it, the game is fundamentally changed.

Juhasow

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Ok so let's say I am buying 100 lottery tickets where the main price is (just as an example) dinner with a fauvorite actor in any restaurant I want , a thing I cannot buy anywhere I can only win this. I am not winning main price I am only winning few other things I could buy normally nothing super though. What is difference between that and crown crates ? Why QQing about not winning grand price in lottery would be considered stupid yet people think QQing about crown crates is ok ?

The dinner used to be buyable in your example. Then it got pushed exclusively into the lottery.

Nope the dinner was never used to be buyable. The dinner is equivalent of radiant apex mounts the only thing You cant buy because other things starting from apex mounts can be obtained through the gems. Yes some of this things was present in the crown store months or years ago but this is actually good zenimax is bringing them back. Keepinmg all that things in the store and adding just new would be stupid. Personally I would't like to see at some point crown store with 2 thousand items in it.

The Dro-M'Athra Senche is quite obviously the earlier equivalent to the Shadowrider Senche, just in blue. It was sold for a very steep 40 bucks, and the people who bought it really enjoy it. The Shadowrider is radiant now. No one has it, no one enjoys it. Pre-crates, this would have been a weekend-exclusive. But now, ZOS are simply p***ing everyone off.

How that is changing the fact it's lottery which You decide wheter You'll take part in or noi ? Dont get me wrong I am not defender of zenimax practices I am just defender or pure logical thinking. Noone forces You to spend the money and if You really want to look better then everyone then ok it's Your choice but if You want to look like almost noone else it's also Your choice to spend lot of moneys for it.

I preffer this "greed model" used by ZOS much more then p2w items.

Recremen

witchdoctor wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

woufff wrote: »

The problem for me with all these kind of crates, boxes etc. in online games is that there is no official information about the chances to win the big price. In any official lottery there is a legal obligation to publish theses chances to win, in crown crates there is not (yet!) such information (as far as I know) published officially.

I'm fine to risk my money when I know my chances

And therein lies the rub: you don't have to take any chances. There is absolutely nothing in the Crown Crates that is needed to play, or 'win,' ESO. Nothing.

You also don't have to play end-game content to consider yourself as having "won" the game. Maybe player goals in an MMO are individualized and skating by on "but it's not P2W!" is an outdated excuse for adding gambling into an otherwise upstanding game.

Sure, we all have different goals. What then is the goal being barred by the Crown store? Collecting every mount?

Frankly, if I 'am skating by' on pointing out how it isn't P2W; then you are surely 'skating by' on its 'gambling.'

I'm not harping on the cash shop as a whole, but gambling boxes in particular. Character customization is held back by the gambling boxes because we cannot make deterministic purchases that will help us fill out our characters' aesthetic niche. The normal cash shop lets us make direct purchases, while the gambling boxes (which came long after the normal cash shop had already established the tone for ESO's consumer/producer relationship) make you gamble and hope you get the item you actually want.

And no, I'm not "skating by" on how it's gambling, that's not how that phrase works. I'm not casually ignoring important elements of the discourse. I did phrase it wrong, however, I didn't mean to imply you in particular were skating by. ZOS, specifically, has been skating by using that phrase as justification while ignoring any issues brought up about the topic of gambling.

Ihatenightblades

Recremen wrote: »

Gambling boxes circumvent gambling laws while retaining all the salient qualities which made gambling regulated in the first place, they destroy the consumer-producer power dynamic, obfuscate real price signalling, and rob clients of agency in what had previously been a pretty standard business transaction of choosing what you wanted to buy and buying it.

Its called economic freedom. To get a LARGE amount of players to heavily invest in crates and crowns you have to have some marketing skills AND a very good game.

Zos has this and they arent making anyone play better by buying crates so they played it perfectly. Add items to game that were never needed ( mounts pets mementos etc. but cool enough to make the players who love this game not mind paying for things like this.

And the more money a company makes the longer it stays in busness.

Vermintide

Recremen wrote: »

Gambling boxes circumvent gambling laws while retaining all the salient qualities which made gambling regulated in the first place, they destroy the consumer-producer power dynamic, obfuscate real price signalling, and rob clients of agency in what had previously been a pretty standard business transaction of choosing what you wanted to buy and buying it.

Succinct and to the point.

Do you guys remember that thing people used to do in the old days on forums, where you'd quote a user as part of your signature? Well, this is one of those posts deserving of that.

WarMasterCyp

Loot boxes, crates, etc is gambling and not to mention can be addicting and takes advantage over people who uncontrollably spend money to get a specific thing.

It should be removed from all games not only ESO

ThinkerOfThings

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Dracofyre wrote: »

crown crates may not be around very soon, congress at Washington DC will make a new law on "RNG boxes" on several online games, they are trying to ban "gambling" boxes and could force many companies to pay fines.
reasons....
1. too many kids with no CC, or steal parents CC to use, or in some areas, underages are not allow to participate "gambling" activities. i admit my nephew did stole his older brother's CC that was saved up for buying a car for work, took him more than 6 months to recover all the order made.
2. to curb any online games that use boxes as gambling, to get big cut for taxes or something too greedy.
3. people with nasty habit of gambling history.

if the law get pass, we might not see anymore gambling boxes, no more buying the keys (other online games), or use of other means of real cash to throw away to get "lucky".

I have a sneaking suspicion this proposed "law" will never pass or at least not in a "strong" form. This is one of those things that it sounds really good on a lawmaker's resume. Then reality (and lobbying) hit.

Besides, lot of serious stuff going on in the US just now and gaming probably isn't taking much of a focus.

Yeah, I have to agree, under the current administration, this is likely not going to be a big focus for congressional law, but states are already pushing to investigate and pass at least some kind of legislation. I think some folks are upset about the odds, as stated by someone with experience in these matters: "if you made a video slot machine and put it in a casino with the same kind of pay table used in most loot-box systems, "you would go to prison." In other words, the odds in Vegas are better -- because state law requires them to be."

(https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/24/loot-boxes-gambling-legislation/ )

If I had to venture a guess, I would say ZOS is absolutely aware that changes to the law governing loot boxes is a possibility and they are trying to milk it for as long as they can.

MLGProPlayer

Pro tip: If you don't want to gamble, ignore what's in the boxes.

People get triggered because they want everything from the loot boxes but they don't want to gamble away their money. I've never bought a single crate and never will. I play the game is if what's in the crates doesn't exist because it isn't available to me. Simple.

DaveMoeDee

People keep talking about publishing odds and such, but people who are prone to buying these won't care. They either really enjoy the thrill or just can think in terms of probabilities. I don't see posting drop odds getting rid of loot crates.

It is unfair to associate people who enjoy the thrill of gambling with addicts. Many are just enjoying entertainment that is well within their entertainment budgets.

It makes little sense to me to compare loot boxes to slot machines because slot machines return money, the same thing that goes in. The value equation is easy. Small amount or large amount, everyone is happy with getting money back. Loot boxes are different because the other loot often has no value to the person seeking a particular item, even if the other loot has a particular crown value. And ZOS can claim whatever crown value they want for a mount since they are the ones who would decide what to sell things for and they are not shy about going into 5 figures.

TelvanniWizard

For those of us who like to have a couple of nice cosmetic items from time to time it´s disgraceful that everything good is locked behind gambling, while the stuff left to be legitimately bought isn´t halve as interesting or weirdly overpriced.