How is a Templar Vampire lore friendly?

Knowledge

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

Aliyavana

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

Casting fire doesn't burn the user for example but in the case of holy magic I think it's just for the sake of gameplay because it's be a bummer to lock out a class out of awesome passives. Possibly the vampire suffers damage whilst casting it and requires willpower to cast while undead.

Mureel

.

Knowledge

Why are you guys typing periods as posts?

Reedx

get what you saying, templar are after all some sort of stendar servant, but then agein being a vamp in eso isint very lore freindly at all, for the villan is molag bal, the father of all vamps, but just create a story for your self that fit to your char, like a templar gone rouge or something like that

sorry for bad english

deamor666eb17_ESO

Who sais they are volunteered Vampires?
Even though in the game curing vampirism is a piece of cake, in Elder Scrolls world it isn't quite as simple.

Reedx

but let me just say this, my main is a templar/healer for pve and i would never turn my char to a vamp, created a hole new char just for that, this might be a mmorpg , but me its still elder scroll and certain things have to make sense to my chars storys, but i also get why zeni cant make it so that templar cant be vamp, would be a major unbalance issue

Knowledge

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Who sais they are volunteered Vampires?
Even though in the game curing vampirism is a piece of cake, in Elder Scrolls world it isn't quite as simple.

The argument is that if they inadvertently became a Vampire they would no longer be able to use their magic/abilities without harming themselves. In your argument it would be understandable if they "accidentally" became a vampire but their place as a Templar would probably be lost.

red_emu

Aliyavana

Whitebeerd wrote: »

get what you saying, templar are after all some sort of stendar servant, but then agein being a vamp in eso isint very lore freindly at all, for the villan is molag bal, the father of all vamps, but just create a story for your self that fit to your char, like a templar gone rouge or something like that

sorry for bad english

That was explained with Lamae bal and her vampire followers using her dark powers against Morag bal. I mean she was literally sexually violated and forced into the first vampire so I'd be pissed off to at Morag bal

Androconium

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

hello,

Where were you in 2002?

'the Sims' got Nightlife and vampires
TESIII got Tribunal and vampires

A year later it was werewolves. It's a childish fantasy thing. Thank Buffy.

anyway that's when lore was made law.

Reedx

aliyavana wrote: »

Whitebeerd wrote: »

get what you saying, templar are after all some sort of stendar servant, but then agein being a vamp in eso isint very lore freindly at all, for the villan is molag bal, the father of all vamps, but just create a story for your self that fit to your char, like a templar gone rouge or something like that

sorry for bad english

That was explained with Lamae bal and her vampire followers using her dark powers against Morag bal. I mean she was literally sexually violated and forced into the first vampire so I'd be pissed off to at Morag bal

i know, but that *** is long forgotten

Mureel

Knowledge wrote: »

Why are you guys typing periods as posts?

I did because I wrote something perhaps too snarky, but did not mean it that way, and had no time to rewrite due to school run.

You cannot delete your own posts, so I just edited quickly.

MehrunesFlagon

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

Does being a templar somehow make you immune to contracting vampirism?

pod88kk

aliyavana wrote: »

Whitebeerd wrote: »

get what you saying, templar are after all some sort of stendar servant, but then agein being a vamp in eso isint very lore freindly at all, for the villan is molag bal, the father of all vamps, but just create a story for your self that fit to your char, like a templar gone rouge or something like that

sorry for bad english

That was explained with Lamae bal and her vampire followers using her dark powers against Morag bal. I mean she was literally sexually violated and forced into the first vampire so I'd be pissed off to at Morag bal

Doing that quest made me really uncomfortable

veloSylraptor

Well, what we should first establish is that the class descriptions are pretty misleading. There is nothing inherently holy about Templars, anymore then there is anything inherently honorable and chivalrous about our medieval knights. Those are mythical stereotypes we assign to certain groups of people, when in reality, people are people.

Now if we examine the Templar abilities, we can determine (with some accuracy) that its mostly a combination of alteration, destruction, restoration, and conjuration(maybe, still not clear on the nature of the Aedric Spear as to whether it is summoned or just altering the physical properties of magicka to create a physical spear.) This way, we can see that like all the other classes, its really just magicka.

The Templar abilities themselves may be attributed to Stendarr, by some lore books, but we know that's not how magicka works. Stendarr doesn't give Templars their abilities when they sign up, Stendarr also can't deny Templars their abilities if he doesn't like them. Being a vampire or a daedric worshipper or outright evil, isn't really relevant to your ability to be a Templar, only that you convinced someone who knows the Templar ways to teach them to you.

Reedx

veloSylraptor wrote: »

Well, what we should first establish is that the class descriptions are pretty misleading. There is nothing inherently holy about Templars, anymore then there is anything inherently honorable and chivalrous about our medieval knights. Those are mythical stereotypes we assign to certain groups of people, when in reality, people are people.

Now if we examine the Templar abilities, we can determine (with some accuracy) that its mostly a combination of alteration, destruction, restoration, and conjuration(maybe, still not clear on the nature of the Aedric Spear as to whether it is summoned or just altering the physical properties of magicka to create a physical spear.) This way, we can see that like all the other classes, its really just magicka.

The Templar abilities themselves may be attributed to Stendarr, by some lore books, but we know that's not how magicka works. Stendarr doesn't give Templars their abilities when they sign up, Stendarr also can't deny Templars their abilities if he doesn't like them. Being a vampire or a daedric worshipper or outright evil, isn't really relevant to your ability to be a Templar, only that you convinced someone who knows the Templar ways to teach them to you.

you right, you are simple a healer or a mage who have mastered fire spell with some holy aspect to them, but still templars are holy knight and dk are just firemages with some new magic like earthspells, but still they are dovas in disgues and nb are just masters of illison but still they are assassins who know their way with magic, and sorceress are just simple mages, and lastly warden, who i have now ide what they are

but you are getting what iam trying to say here right, we can twist as mutch we want but they are still what they are

JamuThatsWho

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

TES lore has never been that black and white. See @veloSylraptor 's post.

Twenty0zTsunami

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

Interesting question. I think one way to embrace it as lore friendly is to stick to the tropes. A crusader who resorts to embracing dark powers to achieve what he believes is a noble end. Think Arthas/ Illidan, Blade, Darth Vader, etc.

Now what really doesn't make sense is being able join the fighters guild as a WW/Vamp. It would be cool if they started drawing lines between certain factions and guilds. On top of that more definition to the justice system would be badass. Though I suppose you could use the same "role play" justification.

starkerealm

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

The different classes in ESO represent completely distinct approaches to magic. In the single player games from the third and fourth era, magic has been standardized down to the Tamerillic spell schools you're probably familiar with (Destruction, Restoration, Alteration, Conjuration, ect.)

Most of the classes explicitly exist in the later games, but you're not permitted to play as them. Shadow mages are still a thing, so that's the nightblade (even though the nightblades from single player are an entirely distinct collection of mages). The Dragon Knights may not exist as such, but the practice of magically infused Akaviri martial arts are still mentioned in lore, and the Blades may originally trace back to DKs. Nature mages are still a thing, even if that's sometimes weird and perverse, including groups such as Reachmen and the Wardens. The Sorcerers are the closest to "modern," mages with skills that primarily line up with Conjuration and Destruction.

Okay, all of that said, the Templars are just another variety of mage. They have a distinct approach to magic and magical theory. They're not like D&D clerics who must remained aligned with specific deities to receive their spells. In fact, depending on your perspective, it's possible we've already seen vampires who were trained as Templars in the single player games. It's not unheard of for clerical mages to become infected and become vampires, but there's no point where their abilities are simply stripped from them.

There's also no right answer to how a Templar would react upon their transformation. They could continue acting as they did before, they could curse their god, turn their back on it, and actively seek to destroy it (this is what happened with Lamae, and Vyrthur).

I mean, yes, it's a little weird to have a Templar who's pledged to Arkay or Meridia who's also a vampire, but their powers are derived from their own innate understanding of magic and how it works, they're not actually gifted with divine powers.

veloSylraptor

@starkerealm managed to explain it better than I did, but just to emphasize the point:

Remember the Dark Brotherhood questline and how Primate Artorius became Primate by getting the Dark Brotherhood to murder his predecessor?

And despite all that, he still kept his time controlling powers, because Akatosh neither gave him that power nor enforced any rules on how that power is used. While, Templars are expected to be "holy knights" that is in fact just that, an expectation (and a stereotype.)

The magic they use is a learned skill, not much different (in this context) than weapon mastery: you can't unlearn a skill someone has learned. You can take away their weapons and armor, but their knowledge and skill will remain with them. This isn't one of those universes (like DnD mentioned above) where magical abilities can be granted and restricted by certain deities. Magical abilities come from mastery of Magicka, so again, nothing stops a stereotypical evil vampire from using illusion spells and some social skills to pretend to be a Stendarr worshipper and convincing a Templar to teach them their ways.

Enslaved

Same as 99% of vestiges being undead of some kind.

TheDoomsdayMonster

I play a Vampire themed Magicka Templar, and my rationalization for being able to be both a Templar and a Vampire is that he's an Evil Templar working for Molag Bal...

ShadowMonarch

Its not, simple answer.

Wolfchild07

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

I play a Vampire themed Magicka Templar, and my rationalization for being able to be both a Templar and a Vampire is that he's an Evil Templar working for Molag Bal...

It would be cool if they could expand the game so that each class could take a good/neutral/evil option.

An evil Templar could become a Blackguard type character.

klowdy1

Because isn't it just a huge slap in the face to turn the one hunting you into the thing they are hunting?

VaranisArano

Whitebeerd wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Whitebeerd wrote: »

get what you saying, templar are after all some sort of stendar servant, but then agein being a vamp in eso isint very lore freindly at all, for the villan is molag bal, the father of all vamps, but just create a story for your self that fit to your char, like a templar gone rouge or something like that

sorry for bad english

That was explained with Lamae bal and her vampire followers using her dark powers against Morag bal. I mean she was literally sexually violated and forced into the first vampire so I'd be pissed off to at Morag bal

i know, but that *** is long forgotten

Its not forgotten. Lamae Bal explains it pretty clearly during the quest when she turns you and there are several lorebooks explaining the original of vampires. So the player character has plenty of reasons to know the story.

EvilCroc

Simple. It is not.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Knowledge wrote: »

Can someone explain to me the lore justification for a Templar being a Vampire? Please, I know it's "just a game" and we can "do whatever our little hearts desire" but I really would like to know how it would fit into the lore, if at all.

Your god not saved you from vampiric affliction, the same curse was come to progenitor of all vampires, Lamae Bal priestess of Arkay, and she curses her god in return and profane circle of life and death, the same comes to Arch-Curate Vyrthur, and he swore revenge to Auri-El to End his Tyranny of the Sun.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vyrthur
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lamae_Beolfag
Vyrthur especially have his templar skills and use them get off Serana in Skyrim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQEhH-LZ7vM

DeadlyRecluse

My templar's more of an agnostic, anyway.

MjolnirVilkas

I have a Templar Vampire. I consider him as a fallen warrior-priest.