True Magicka Sorcerer Tank - Non-selfish build (4-man PuG)

troomar

Important note!.

This build has NOT been updated for Summerset update, and because a lot has changed with sorcerer tanks (and tanks generally), this build is not good any longer (= there are much better builds for sorcerers).

I will keep this topic as it is for the reference (you can still get some thoughts from it), but I don't recommend anyone to use this build anymore.

Why did I create this build? Introduction.
******************************************************
I've always wanted to make a Magicka Sorcerer Tank, but what I found on the internet could be split into these groups:
- Outdated Dark Deal spammers
- "Fake" Magicka Tanks using mostly Sword&Board and being rather hybrids
- Broken builds and DK-like builds recommending standard selfish sets like Leeching Plate, Plague Doctor. Green Pact etc.

So I was very disappointed with what I found and decided to make my own.

I tried to create a true magicka sorcerer tank that strictly utilize Magicka - both for skills and for tanking, blocking and taunting. I also tried to create a build that is unique to sorcerers and coudn't be reproduced by any other class. I also wanted to create a build that is not selfish and helps the party while still remains self sufficient and hard to kill.

Please also understand, that this build is still work in progress and I might change things depending on some dungeons.
******************************************************

Build advantages
******************************************************
- Ultra High mobility - Leeroy Jenkins style supported
- Real tank - You can stay in stupid and ignore some mechanics that are 1-shot for others
- Range taunts - Easy to protect people chased by mobs
- Cheap in skill points and required skill line - 9 out of 12 skills are you class skills
- Party support - Your bonuses are for everyone
- Completely self sufficient - No shards, no orbs, no heal? Who cares, you don't need that.
- Very fun to play, active gameplay
******************************************************

Build disadvantages
******************************************************
- Bad in gathering mobs - As every non-DK tank
- Slow in resurrecting others in highly dangerous situations - You will understand later why
- Hard to get all the required gear - You have to clear some vet DLC dungeons for the gear
- Not for beginners - You have to know mechanics, because there is little space for mistakes. This is not 70k health perma blocking tank.
- This is not perma blocking tank - Actually the less you block, the better
- For a sorcerer, quite low dps output.
******************************************************

Race - Breton
******************************************************
I chose Breton for the Max Magicka and Cost Reduction passives. Spell resistance is a nice bonus, but not really needed.
******************************************************

Attributes - 40 Magicka, 24 Health, 0 Stamina
******************************************************
With this setup and all passives you will be sitting around 28k Health, 30k Magicka and 11k Stamina. I believe this is the perfect ratio - you have enough health for every situation and still have a lot of Magicka for your skills. You can fool around with the Health/Magicka ratio, but remamber that lower Max Magicka also means smaller shield and weaker healing skills. I wouldn't go lower than 25k Health either, the risk being one shot is very high.
******************************************************

Champion Points (500)
******************************************************
Please understand that the CP distribution is now at the very early stage.

Warrior - Ironclad 30, Thick Skinned 30, Hardy 30, Elemental Defender 30, Expert Defender 25, Bastion 15, Quick Recovery 10
Thief - Warlord 20, Bashing Focus 40, Arcanist 20, Tenacity 20, Shadow Ward 60
Mage - Blessed 75, Elfborn 75, Staff Expert 10, Thaumaturge 5
******************************************************

Mundus - Atronach
******************************************************
Because you have never enough Magicka Recovery.
******************************************************

Food/Drink - Witchmother's Potent Brew
******************************************************
Max Health + Max Magicka + Magicka Recovery is almost perfect buff and it's cheap. Better food is only the Clockwork Citrus Filet, but it requires Perfect Roe.
******************************************************

Potions - Water Hyacinth + Bogloss + Lady Smock (Spell Critical + Health + Magicka)
******************************************************
Health and Magicka properties are usefull for the +20% Recovery Bonus, Spell Critical for your self heals.
******************************************************

Gear - 5/1/1
******************************************************
This build utilized three sets:
Permafrost - Dropped set in Maestrom Arena
Thurvokun - Head dropped in vet Fang Lair, Shoulders from the middle chest
Draugr's Rest - Dropped set in Falkreath Hold

Head - Heavy, Thurvokun Visage, Infused, Max Health
Shoulders - Medium, Thurvokun Arm Cops, Divines, Max Health
Chest - Heavy, Permafrost, Infused, Max Health
Legs - Heavy, Permafrost, Infused, Max Health
Hand - Heavy, Permafrost, Divines, Max Health
Waist - Heavy, Permafrost, Divines, Max Health
Feet - Light, Draugr's Rest, Divines, Max Health

Necklace - Draugr's Rest, Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka
Ring - Draugr's Rest, Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka
Ring - Draugr's Rest, Magicka Recovery, Max Magicka

Main Bar - Permafrost Ice Staff, Defending, Weakening Enchant
Back Bar - Draugr's Rest Sword, Defending, Weakening Enchant + Permafrost Shield

If you're not able to get the Permafrost Ice Staff, then you can go with 3x Jewelries and Draugr's Rest Sword and Shield. Then, you have to use 5 pieces of Permafrost on your body, which means you have to use light Shoulders and Medium Head. Physical defense loss, 2% healing bonus loss, but you have a free slot for your Ice Staff.
******************************************************

Skills - Main Bar
******************************************************
Restraining Prison - Gather mobs (if your PuG mates let you) and keep them together. It also uses the Exploitation Passive skill granting 657 Spell Critical for 20 second for you and your party.
Hardened Ward - This is your mobile 11k Health Shield.
Liquid Lightning - This skill is primarily for the synergy with Critical Surge, but the extra damage and synergy for others is a nice bonus.
Inner Rage - Your range taunt. Don't forget, that heavy attacks from Ice Staff also taunt enemies.
Bound Aegis - Max Magicka and permanent Minor Resolve + Minor Ward.

(Ultimate) Absorption Field - Sorcerer's Best Ultimate Ever
******************************************************

Skills - Back Bar
******************************************************
Streak - You are the tank and you will be first everywhere. The stun property is also nice for thash mobs.
Pierce Armor - Major Fracture + Major Breech + Secondary taunt on the back bar
Critical Surge - Your personal healer
Boundless Storm - Major Resolve + Major Ward + Major Expedition. It also damages the nearby standing mobs or the boss, and it procs your Surge heals.
Bound Aegis - Max Magicka and permanent Minor Resolve + Minor Ward.

(Ultimate) Summon Charged Atronach / Aggresive Warhorn - Your selection for low dps and high dps parties.
******************************************************

Skill rotation (Yes, this tank has skill rotation!)
******************************************************
Boss rotation:
(Start on Main bar) Inner Rage - Liquid Lightning - Hardened Ward - (swap) - Pierce Armor - Critical Surge - Boundless Storm - (HA!) - (swap) - Hardened Ward - (HA) - (HA) - Liquid Lightning - Hardened Ward - (swap) - Pierce Armor - (HA!) - (swap) - (repeat from the beginning)

Feel free to break the rotation whenever you have to block or taunt. Remember that your blocking bar is the Ice Staff Main bar.

Trash mobs kind of rotation:
(Start on Back Bar) Critical Surge - Boundless Storm - (swap) - Inner Rage - Inner Rage - Inner Rage... - Restraining Prison - Liquid Lightning - Hardened Ward - (HA)
******************************************************

Mandatory Passive Skills
******************************************************
Dark Magic - All of them
Daedric Summoning - Power Stone, Daedric Protection
Storm Calling - Capacitor. The other three are not mandatory, but take them too.
Destruction Staff - Tri Focus, Ancient Knowledge
Heavy Armor - All of them
Light Armor - None, but take Evocation and Recovery.
Undaunted - Both of them.
******************************************************

Discussion - How does that work? Questions, answers, disputation, doubts
******************************************************
Let me start with the gear selection.

Permafrost set gives you Max Health, Max Magicka and Magicka Recovery, all the bonuses are nice. The 5th bonus looks out of place in this build, but it's not. The set gives you 885 Health Recovery whenever you have a damage shield on yourself, which is always. Also don't forget, that the effect gets bonuses from CPs and other passives, so while I have 450 Health Recovery without it, it easily jumps to 1700 with the damage shield. Which means 850 Health every second in average. Moreover, you will use your damage shield mostly to prevent one shots, so you want to get to full health asap. This set will give you this ability.

Alternative sets?
Beekeeper set. I know this used to be a pvp set, but it works in pve too. Not as good as Permafrost, but good enough. With this set you will probably want to exchange your Magicka Recovery enchants on jewelries for Health Recovery Enchants.
Leeching Plate set, Bahraha's Curse set. These are standard tanking sets. You can use them, but the reason why I don't use them is that they are chance-based sets. Permafrost is use-on-demand and gives you also Magicka bonuses.

Draugr's Rest, Holy Moly, this is a light armor set for healers! Except for the fact no healers use this set. Now, this set gives us Magicka Bonuses and use-on-demand HoT effect (with my Magicka and bonuses it's around 15000 Health in 10 seconds). And it works for you AND your party. Moreover, the effect is summoned in the place of the target, so it's perfect for stationary tanking. It lasts 10 seconds with 10 seconds reuse, so you can have it permanently. It also procs on heavy attacks from melee weapons! And here is the trick. I need the fifth bonus only for the heavy attack and heavy attacks from 1H melee weapons are faster than 2H staffs. Can you see that? I will use 3x jewelries of Draugr's Rest + 1 small piece of armor, which also gives me undaunted mettle bonus, and 1H sword on back bar for the fifth bonus and summoning effect. And I can use two pieces of Monster set. Perfect.

Alternative sets?
Permafrost + Beekeeper works (4000+ Health recovery). It's easier to use, but you will have hard times with your Max Health / Max Magicka ratio. And it's not that fun. And it's selfish

Thurvokun is the set I was waiting for. It gives you Minor Maim and this effect is an aoe! Uptime is 100% and secondary bonus on the set (+Health) is also nice.

What about gear traits? Why don't you use Sturdy as a real tank?
Well, this is not a permablocking tank and you will mostly block heavy attacks. For this you don't need that bonus. I would rather have more Mana recovery. Generally, traits on gear are minor bonuses, if you can't live without sturdy, go for it.

Now lets discuss skills and morphs.
Critical Surge. I prefer this morph over the other one, because I don't need Major Sorcery and the extra heal is nice.
Bound Aegis. If you feel like having too much resistances, you can change this skill for Inner light. But I think Bound Aegis is better.

F.A.Q.

Does it work in veteran dlc hm leeroy jenkins solo half drunk and blind runs?
Well, I don't know, you can try it, but for my proper runs with proper party and average skilled players it works.

Does it work in trials?
I don't know, I created this build for 4-man PuG runs. But honestly I don't think it's a good idea to take it to trials. Not that it wouldn't be able to tank the bosses, but the bonuses (HoT and Resistances) are probably not the desired ones for trials. This is not a trial build.

Edit 2018-02-27:
- Exchanged Heroic Slash for Pierce Armor
- Changed Lord Warden Dusk's for Thurvokun
- Rotation has been updated to reflect the change in skills

troomar

For better overview, this is on selfbuff:



Please note that this is without Undaunted passives and without golden out armor, so Health and Magicka will eventually go up for around more 6%.

Now, if you sum up all the health regeneration:
Critical Surge = 3283/s (in best case)
1918 Health Recovery = 959/s
11660/10 Draugr's Rest = 1166/s

---

= 5408 health per second (permanently on demand)

If you add Absorption Field Ultimate (1060/0.5 = 2120/s), you get to 7528.

And of course don't forget that spammable 10500 Health Shield

Liofa

I understand that your healer will be using Elemental Drain to apply Major Breach but where do you get Major Fracture in the group ?

troomar

That's a good point I didn't think about.

The Major Fracture usually comes from Puncture, which is S&B ability, and of course the main taunt of stam/hybrid tanks. The only classes that don't have this debuff are stamsorcs and stamplars.

It's hard to expect any dps in PuG to run this debuff, so you have only two options:
1) Use it instead of Streak for boss fights
2) Shrug off, you can't have everything

I'll add it to disadvantages.

Zapzarap

troomar wrote: »

Does it work in trials?
I don't know, I created this build for 4-man PuG runs. But honestly I don't think it's a good idea to take it to trials. Not that it wouldn't be able to tank the bosses, but the bonuses (HoT and Resistances) are probably not the desired ones for trials. This is not a trial build.

FYI: Your resistance is way over the top. And if HoT = healing over time, guess in PuG trials, this is also not bad.

troomar

Zapzarap wrote: »

FYI: Your resistance is way over the top. And if HoT = healing over time, guess in PuG trials, this is also not bad.

I know, it's on purpose, because the resistances come from your monster set. And this effect applies for the whole party. For you it's useless because you, as a tank, are on the maximum already, but others aren't. This also gives you ability to change the monster set without gimping yourself for hard hitting bosses (Selene, WGT trio etc).

HoT = healing over time and for PuG 4-man it's really nice, because the quality of healers you get is very varying. For trials you have a dedicated healer and you don't need that effect, but for PuGs, where you generally expect average skilled players, it helps. I usually contribute 20-30% of party healing.

Zapzarap

troomar wrote: »

Zapzarap wrote: »

FYI: Your resistance is way over the top. And if HoT = healing over time, guess in PuG trials, this is also not bad.

I know, it's on purpose, because the resistances come from your monster set. And this effect applies for the whole party. For you it's useless because you, as a tank, are on the maximum already, but others aren't. This also gives you ability to change the monster set without gimping yourself for hard hitting bosses (Selene, WGT trio etc).

Doesn't realy make any difference. Heavy attacks you should block anyway. doesn't matter if you are on cap or a bit below.

I am not realy running vet Dungeons with PuG-Group, and with guild groups we normaly don't need a tank at all. A DD with a taunt that can doge heavy attacks is in 95% enough for us.
But I can tell you; I am main tank in trials and i am tanking vet trials + HM with most of the time ~30k resi. There are Bosses that I tank with 22-25k resi, because they don't do anything, and then there are a few (1 or 2) where I am on the cap.

What I want to say is: you dont realy need the cap for dungeons. Maybe you can rearrange something that you loose some resi but get for example more reg.

Just an idea

TankHealz2015

Awesome!

Permafrost is a cool set.
Love that you made an effective build outside of the "meta".

A lot of people post their opinions based on just - organized vet trials experience. Running PUG dungeons is very different.

Very thorough explanations; help a lot.

Thanks!!!

troomar

I'm glad you like it!

I'm still experimenting with monster sets. It's basically a free slot and it's up to everyone, and that's something I like a lot. Right now I'm running Lord Warden Dusk's for hard bosses (to give my party some more damage mitigation, it's not for me) and Valkyn Skoria for trash mobs. I still need to try Swarm Mother more, but it's highly situational and PuG won't give you much time to swap gear I also tried Earthgore set, but I wasn't able to make it proc. Draugr's Rest bonus probably doesn't count.

I will probably modify the CP distribution a bit in the future towards more Light/Heavy attack defense and less for aoe. Shielding and self healing usually absorb this kind of damage and the only dangerous moments are heavy attacks (even the blocked ones).

Tasear

was like this guy thinks like me. Then I saw it was you

It's pretty interesting. A few questions and obversations.

The soft cap for restiances is 33k, but 32.5 will get you want you need.

Instead of heroic slash you could use punture. I say this because secondary effect of Frost damage is minor maim. Of course make sure it's charged with frost glyph.

Have you looked at thunderbug, storm knight, or tempest sets? I would think sorcs could ouput some serious damage even as a tank.

I would check the guide on aggro. I seen some sorc storm in and get everything on them.

Overall it a good read, thanks.

troomar

Tasear wrote: »

The soft cap for restiances is 33k, but 32.5 will get you want you need.

I'm going over the cap because of the monster set, and it's a buff for whole party. Anything over 30k is enough.

Tasear wrote: »

Instead of heroic slash you could use punture. I say this because secondary effect of Frost damage is minor maim. Of course make sure it's charged with frost glyph.

I'm using Heroic Slash for the Minor Heroism buff, with the potential to change it for something else. The ideal setup is to run both of these skills for a boss fight, but I want this build to remain Magicka tank, so having two mandatory skills on S&B is a no. Is it worse then hybrids? Yes, definitely, but it's a weakness of a Ice Staff Tank concept.

I didn't mention it anywhere, but I'm using S&B primarily for one thing - you won't get kicked as a (potential) fake tank. If people see you having S&B, then you're ok in their eyes, and it doesn't matter you don't use it and that you don't have any passives for this skill line

Tasear wrote: »

Have you looked at thunderbug, storm knight, or tempest sets? I would think sorcs could ouput some serious damage even as a tank.

I looked into all sets because I spent quite some time on this build. I don't remember that I would consider any of these sets, but I looked them up now.
thunderbug - The 5-piece bonus looks interesting, but 2,3 bonus is meh.
storm knight - Similar to Thunderbug, but with more useless Spell Resistance.
tempest set - Spell Resistance...


Anyway, the idea of this build was a high sustain / healing tank. I had a version with 4k+ health recovery, but eventually came with this setup. I didn't think about a DPS/tank version, so I have no idea how it would perform with the sets you mentioned above.

Tasear

troomar wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

The soft cap for restiances is 33k, but 32.5 will get you want you need.

I'm going over the cap because of the monster set, and it's a buff for whole party. Anything over 30k is enough.

Tasear wrote: »

Instead of heroic slash you could use punture. I say this because secondary effect of Frost damage is minor maim. Of course make sure it's charged with frost glyph.

I'm using Heroic Slash for the Minor Heroism buff, with the potential to change it for something else. The ideal setup is to run both of these skills for a boss fight, but I want this build to remain Magicka tank, so having two mandatory skills on S&B is a no. Is it worse then hybrids? Yes, definitely, but it's a weakness of a Ice Staff Tank concept.

I didn't mention it anywhere, but I'm using S&B primarily for one thing - you won't get kicked as a (potential) fake tank. If people see you having S&B, then you're ok in their eyes, and it doesn't matter you don't use it and that you don't have any passives for this skill line

Tasear wrote: »

Have you looked at thunderbug, storm knight, or tempest sets? I would think sorcs could ouput some serious damage even as a tank.

I looked into all sets because I spent quite some time on this build. I don't remember that I would consider any of these sets, but I looked them up now.
thunderbug - The 5-piece bonus looks interesting, but 2,3 bonus is meh.
storm knight - Similar to Thunderbug, but with more useless Spell Resistance.
tempest set - Spell Resistance...


Anyway, the idea of this build was a high sustain / healing tank. I had a version with 4k+ health recovery, but eventually came with this setup. I didn't think about a DPS/tank version, so I have no idea how it would perform with the sets you mentioned above.

I was thinking about tempest one when I mentioned dps. It's what I was looking at for mine you could say. What do you think of them? Also do you think the buff from heroic slash > major fracture. It's quite dangerous for the group. There's going to be less damage be done.

troomar

Update!

I resolved the problem with Major Fracture!

Here it is:
- Exchanged Heroic Slash for Pierce Armor (this will give us the important Major Fracture debuff)
- Changed Lord Warden Dusk's for Thurvokun (this will supplement the missing Minor Main with aoe effect as a bonus.

troomar

+ I also updated the rotation, because I changed the skill on my back bar.

TODO: I need to add an equipment variation with more physical resistances, because after exchanging Lord Warden's Monster Set for something else, I'm a bit lower than I would like to be.

Dyride

I like the care you out into your set choices, and using sets that are generally overlooked.

For other sets, you could run Necropotence/Torug's Pact (5-pc on SnB)/Monster helm.

This let's you get the 8% max health using a sorc pet.

More magicka, better Debuff with Crusher enchant, and no farmed gear.

troomar

I actually haven't tried using my pet for tanking (the one that heals you). If it worked then it would be a nice combination, but I don't know it he survives during boss fights. And the pet's healing costs Magicka. I may have a lot of Magicka, but my armor is heavy, so I can't cast a lot of Magicka skills. I will try it one day

I still want to try the trial combination (Ebon + Alkosh) on this tank, but it would be a different build, so I won't post it here.

Tasear

troomar wrote: »

I actually haven't tried using my pet for tanking (the one that heals you). If it worked then it would be a nice combination, but I don't know it he survives during boss fights. And the pet's healing costs Magicka. I may have a lot of Magicka, but my armor is heavy, so I can't cast a lot of Magicka skills. I will try it one day

I still want to try the trial combination (Ebon + Alkosh) on this tank, but it would be a different build, so I won't post it here.

>.> once upon a time ... clanffer could tank bosses in veteran trials. Then one day ... pets could not hold arrgo anymore like they used to. Still tanking... but don't really say it has a usage besides the heal.

troomar

Important update!.

This build has NOT been updated for Summerset update, and because a lot has changed with sorcerer tanks (and tanks generally), this build is not good any longer (= there are much better builds for sorcerers).

I will keep this topic as it is for the reference (you can still get some thoughts from it), but I don't recommend anyone to use this build anymore.