Enabling CP has detrimentally changed Battleground playstyle

Beardimus

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Drummerx04

Beardimus wrote: »

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Okay, so the first two posts in this thread LITERALLY have the exact opposite complaints about the speed of combat. So CP turns everyone into unkillable tanks and everyone is also on a 2-shot insta gib build as well. Which is it?

Going against a premade noCP s&b healing tank blob sucks just as much fighting a premade CP s&b healing tank blob. Disabling CP doesn't suddenly make these tank builds a non issue.

Beardimus

I didn't going into specifics, I'm talking about noticable overall pace change.

Anyone that's regularly played BG from launch, can FEEL the difference in playstyle / pace. People are balled up.

Sure some people still get 1 shoted (I.e. Low CP players who don't stand a chance now) and sure before CP the odd player was tough as nails (though very rare)

But in general there has been a pace shift that's knocked the USP of BG out. It's akin to a normal day in Vivec now.

And yes Pre-Mades suck the fun completly both before and after CP but that's for another thread.

Apache_Kid

Yeah i played 3 BG's matches since they added this. Two of those were Capture the Relic and both times, permablocker grabbed our relic and sat on it in the whole match. The 3 PUGs and I were helpless in trying to get it back. Ruined the experience. Champion points make these tanky builds exponentially stronger. I would argue that CP allows no other build to excel in BGs more than tanks due to the objective nature of most game types. There needs to be 2 queues. If the population of the game mode isn't high enough to support two queues then the content itself is not viewed as fun or rewarding enough by players to participate it and needs to be changed. Either way, there is 0 argument for leaving it as it is with only 1 queue and that queue being CP-enabled.

KingMagaw

Just another change to alienate any new players coming into the game with low CP's.

Why cant there be a NO CP and CP BG?, giving players/customers choice is NOT a bad thing.


I wont play BG anymore as it is CP enabled only, waste of time. Main reason why i bought MW and now with this change i definitely feel ripped off. I play NO CP PvP because i feel it is more skill being on a more leevel playing field with everyone and it is better combat.

I wonder why ZOS changed BG's, wasn't like people were outcry over it.

Apache_Kid

KingMagaw wrote: »

Just another change to alienate any new players coming into the game with low CP's.

Why cant there be a NO CP and CP BG?, giving players/customers choice is NOT a bad thing.


I wont play BG anymore as it is CP enabled only, waste of time. Main reason why i bought MW and now with this change i definitely feel ripped off. I play NO CP PvP because i feel it is more skill being on a more leevel playing field with everyone and it is better combat.

I wonder why ZOS changed BG's, wasn't like people were outcry over it.

Yeah this too. I feel like i got even less from the overpriced Morrowind expansion now. Just feels like a rich man's Orsinium expansion at this point.

Rohaus

Many posts have been made and yet I feel like more should be made. CP experience is awful and anyone arguing for it is either blind, ignorant, or delusional.

It’s only going to get worse as CP point allocation increases. Eventually ZOS will need to completely revamp CP... sure, for pve it is fine but in pvp... you can’t have everyone walking around as immortal gods...

Nogawd

A few threads?

Publius_Scipio

It makes sense. Everyone should have known. You have perma block super tanks in Cyrodiil that still require 5-10 players to get the kill still around in CP campaigns. So now enable CP in battlegrounds.... Did anyone expect a different result?

Edit: Right off the top of my head, go find the two EP in Vivec campaign named Sera Dracnois and Lost Her Marbles. Go fight them. Tell me what happens when they are in a battlegrounds match.

Apache_Kid

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

It makes sense. Everyone should have known. You have perma block super tanks in Cyrodiil that still require 5-10 players to get the kill still around in CP campaigns. So now enable CP in battlegrounds.... Did anyone expect a different result?

Yeah its not like we didn't try to tell them before this change went live. Now we have to hope they can see for themselves.

Solariken

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Okay, so the first two posts in this thread LITERALLY have the exact opposite complaints about the speed of combat. So CP turns everyone into unkillable tanks and everyone is also on a 2-shot insta gib build as well. Which is it?

Going against a premade noCP s&b healing tank blob sucks just as much fighting a premade CP s&b healing tank blob. Disabling CP doesn't suddenly make these tank builds a non issue.

Responding to the bold: it truly is both. The CP system is a cancer of extremes. If you build for tankiness/block/healing, you can be extremely hard to bring down. If you build pure offense, you can generally annihilate non-tanks with a 1-2 punch knockout.

Patiently waiting for the removal of CP from BG's (and all PvP)...

joaaocaampos

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type

UNDERSTAND: Cyrodiil is a base content! Battlegrounds are not! Not everyone has Morrowind! ESO must have a player, so they release the two models.

WillhelmBlack

I think it was intentional. They wanted to ruin them, it's PvP isn't it.

Lexxypwns

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Yeah i played 3 BG's matches since they added this. Two of those were Capture the Relic and both times, permablocker grabbed our relic and sat on it in the whole match. The 3 PUGs and I were helpless in trying to get it back. Ruined the experience. Champion points make these tanky builds exponentially stronger. I would argue that CP allows no other build to excel in BGs more than tanks due to the objective nature of most game types. There needs to be 2 queues. If the population of the game mode isn't high enough to support two queues then the content itself is not viewed as fun or rewarding enough by players to participate it and needs to be changed. Either way, there is 0 argument for leaving it as it is with only 1 queue and that queue being CP-enabled.

It's not only objective based gameplay.

The other issues are: Limited number of opponents(no more than 8 enemies), and the presence of defensive buffs in all champion point trees.

Beardimus

They used the logic that in Cyro, the CP enabled campaigns are more popular.

Thus to help drive pop they have enabled CP thinking that's the barrier. @ZOS_GinaBruno did say it was a test.

I just hope they listen that the play style has been ruined.

I would leave BG and go play no-CP Cyro but servers are dead when im on. maybe if the 7 day was no CP to would help drive pop.

Apache_Kid

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Yeah i played 3 BG's matches since they added this. Two of those were Capture the Relic and both times, permablocker grabbed our relic and sat on it in the whole match. The 3 PUGs and I were helpless in trying to get it back. Ruined the experience. Champion points make these tanky builds exponentially stronger. I would argue that CP allows no other build to excel in BGs more than tanks due to the objective nature of most game types. There needs to be 2 queues. If the population of the game mode isn't high enough to support two queues then the content itself is not viewed as fun or rewarding enough by players to participate it and needs to be changed. Either way, there is 0 argument for leaving it as it is with only 1 queue and that queue being CP-enabled.

It's not only objective based gameplay.

The other issues are: Limited number of opponents(no more than 8 enemies), and the presence of defensive buffs in all champion point trees.

Yeah I didn't get to experience a deathmatch before I decided to go do something actually fun with my minutes play time. But I can imagine it's not much better there either.

Beardimus

Back in tonight, more of the same. Zerg warfare, dull playstyle.

Everyone is complaining bout it in games. I'm sure the CP zerg warriors will continue to play and be annoying, only those that played BG before the change will see how badly this change has impacted the playstyle..

Seriously considering just going non-CP Cyro if it wasn't such a dead campaign

Such a frustrating change

Rex-Umbra

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Okay, so the first two posts in this thread LITERALLY have the exact opposite complaints about the speed of combat. So CP turns everyone into unkillable tanks and everyone is also on a 2-shot insta gib build as well. Which is it?

Going against a premade noCP s&b healing tank blob sucks just as much fighting a premade CP s&b healing tank blob. Disabling CP doesn't suddenly make these tank builds a non issue.

I noticed that too lol

Blobsky

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

Beardimus

I know what you are saying @Blobsky and for Cyro I agree. I also agree that progression in an MMO is good. Longer term players should have a gain over newer folks etc etc.

HOWEVER. Specifically for BG its ruined the pace, the playstyle. And that's what I'm talking about. BG was different to Cyro, it was fast, dynamic, decent action. It suited BG style and tactics.

Now its just a zergy slugfest with all 3 teams balled up whaling on each other to try and get one kill.

It's changed something that was really, really good before..

Beardimus

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Okay, so the first two posts in this thread LITERALLY have the exact opposite complaints about the speed of combat. So CP turns everyone into unkillable tanks and everyone is also on a 2-shot insta gib build as well. Which is it?

Going against a premade noCP s&b healing tank blob sucks just as much fighting a premade CP s&b healing tank blob. Disabling CP doesn't suddenly make these tank builds a non issue.

I noticed that too lol

Read my follow up thread they aren't literally contradicting. I'm.talking pace, overall. Game play. Of course high CP players still 1 shot noobs, in fact that's more likely now.

But I'm talking overall pace of the matches. 9 out of 10 are going the full 15 minutes now etc.

wheem_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I know we have a few threads covering one aspect or another of this change, however I wanted to state that enabling CP has changed the match dynamic for the worse for all loyal BG players I know.

The fast paced action has gone, tanky / zerg action has descended and made most games void of tactics now. Just battle of attrition with most running to time

It's a real shame. As BG pace before was so enjoyable.

Please revert the change. I can't vote with my feet as BG suit my game windows well with the instant action, and non-CP campaigns in Cyro are dead. But its killed the dynamic, alienated many lower CP players and sucked the fun

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Couple comments:

-Enable CP has made the diference between pre made groups and others even greater
-CP has enable the permablock and role dodge around objects a cancer
-BG has turned into a 2 shot kill very fast pace mechanics
-Dont know if related or not but very long load screens on death respawn are now present

ZOS please consider a option to chose between CP and no CP and also battle type, to avoid long qeues please put a number for the total amount of people on that mode (aplaying and waiting) so pleople can know whats the population

Okay, so the first two posts in this thread LITERALLY have the exact opposite complaints about the speed of combat. So CP turns everyone into unkillable tanks and everyone is also on a 2-shot insta gib build as well. Which is it?

Going against a premade noCP s&b healing tank blob sucks just as much fighting a premade CP s&b healing tank blob. Disabling CP doesn't suddenly make these tank builds a non issue.

Responding to the bold: it truly is both. The CP system is a cancer of extremes. If you build for tankiness/block/healing, you can be extremely hard to bring down. If you build pure offense, you can generally annihilate non-tanks with a 1-2 punch knockout.

Patiently waiting for the removal of CP from BG's (and all PvP)...

100% correct, and it makes it very difficult to have good, fun, back and forth fights. ESO's PvP already suffered from mostly occurring on one extreme end or the other, but adding CP to the mix has greatly amplified those preexisting problems.

PS:
Contrary to what I've seen some other people claim, it's not only the low CP players that get wrecked in 2 seconds, either. Sure, they're an even more extreme version of the already extremely low time-to-kill for many builds, but they're not the only ones that suffer.

Maulkin

Blobsky wrote: »

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

Do you still run Incap ahead of Harvest?

Blobsky

Maulkin wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

Do you still run Incap ahead of Harvest?

Yea, but its much closer decision with CP included. It is less damage marginally but the cc is still worth it imo. Im mostly bored of magnb anyway so on my dk most of the time

Maulkin

Blobsky wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

Do you still run Incap ahead of Harvest?

Yea, but its much closer decision with CP included. It is less damage marginally but the cc is still worth it imo. Im mostly bored of magnb anyway so on my dk most of the time

It’s not the lack of damage on Incap that it’s the problem for me. I can swallow that, since the hard CC will guarantee a buffed hit on Merciless Resolve which compensates.

My problem is that Incap is dodgeable and Harvest isn’t. Harvest is almost a guaranteed execute against dodge rolling (or dodge chance having) targets on lowish health.

PS. Can’t believe you asked Tactia if I’m wearing well-fitted. So offended

ToRelax

Blobsky wrote: »

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

I disagree. One one hand it makes builds possible that wouldn't work in no CP (which is a good thing in some cases only), on the other hand it not just allows but forces specialization along rather arbitrary lines. Crit chance, crit damage, penetration and physical/magic damage are all split between physical/magic damage, additionally there are the direct/dot damage and normal attacks of a specific weapon type stars. That doesn't really make anything possible that wouldn't be without CP (except that everyone has a static increase in crit chance), yet it makes it far less efficient to pick up different types of damage.

MurderMostFoul

Beardimus wrote: »

I know what you are saying @Blobsky and for Cyro I agree. I also agree that progression in an MMO is good. Longer term players should have a gain over newer folks etc etc.

HOWEVER. Specifically for BG its ruined the pace, the playstyle. And that's what I'm talking about. BG was different to Cyro, it was fast, dynamic, decent action. It suited BG style and tactics.

Now its just a zergy slugfest with all 3 teams balled up whaling on each other to try and get one kill.

It's changed something that was really, really good before..

This is what I hate most about BGs now. Most matches involve a bunch of players running to the middle and tickling each other.

Also, I'm sub 530 CP. I've been playing since PC launch. The only reason why I'm not max CP is because I went from PC to PS4 to XB1 with a couple breaks. I guess I have to just accept the fact that I now have to deal with months of a straight numerical disadvantage. Lame AF.

Izaki

Rohaus wrote: »

Many posts have been made and yet I feel like more should be made. CP experience is awful and anyone arguing for it is either blind, ignorant, or delusional.

It’s only going to get worse as CP point allocation increases. Eventually ZOS will need to completely revamp CP... sure, for pve it is fine but in pvp... you can’t have everyone walking around as immortal gods...

I'm not blind, ignorant or delusional and yet I prefer the gameplay in CP battlegrounds. And frankly, if you really wanted to be unkillable, you could do that in non-CP, since the damage you took was always ridiculously low (unless proc sets were involved).

LokoMatic

At least on console, the game is now entirely unplayable in my eyes. Cyrodiil is substantially broken with load screens, and now BG's have gone full potato mode. Such a shame with how much negative feedback they have received.

Lexxypwns

Blobsky wrote: »

Honestly I like CP, I feel it creates more build diversity and specialism... But being a min maxer I guess that is just my thing

Except it does the opposite, fewer builds are competitive in CP than no-CP since you can afford to sacrifice damage in a no-CP environment and win off out-sustaining. This is blatant misinformation that gets propagated, I assume, because people think more places to spend more points is "build diversity" when it's just simply not. In fact, if your CP aren't spent mapped out properly then you're losing efficiency and placing yourself at a competitive disadvantage, therefore lowering the amount of viable options.