A little lore of the Maormer

Eporem

Did these events in the book happen? - and just wondering who were or would be considered the bestial tribes of Pyandonea

LMar

Invasion by Maormer happened a lot of times. That they would plunder and destroy cities is pretty normal for them as they hate the Altmer and their kin for various reasons. That the author of the book tries to rationalise their anger by accusing them of racial impurities is just a form of "demonising" your opponents. Doesn't necessarily have to be true. If you convince your readers that your enemies are nothing more than beasts and impure versions of their past (when they had some form of relation to you) makes it easier to justify killing them off in the future or to make their crimes look more heinous

Eporem

In this piece of the book,

It is possible that the Maormer had broken the Aldmer traditions of racial purity and intermingled with indigenous, bestial tribes of Pyandonea. This would explain their savagery and lack of regard for the greatness of mainland Elven culture.

could the intermingling with the 'bestial' tribes of Pyandonea be the reason why they are/became so different in their looks, their eyes and skin compared to the Aldmer that settled in the Summerset Isles.

or would it have been the Aldmer that changed in their appearance intermingling with those of the Summerset Isles:)

LMar

The various Mer changed their looks in possibly mystical ways. As their culture diverged their looks also diverged. Supposedly the Altmer remained looking pretty close to the original Aldmer but that could also be a form of propaganda :P

SydneyGrey

Curious that there's "Aldmer" and "Altmer." Are these just variant spellings of Altmer, or does one have a different meaning?

Eporem

@LMar I see the Dunmer as being changed in a mystical way

@SydneyGrey I like these definitions of the Aldmer and Altmer: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmer

Another question I have of the Maormer....in the beginning quests you meet Uldor..an undead Maormer who is able to separate his spirit from his body and wear the skins of others, he has been imprisoned in the Temple of the Mourning Springs for centuries until a mage removed the mourning stone that helped imprison him (which was later returned). This Mourning Stone was said to have been given to the Khajitt by the Sea-elves to help bind Uldor after his reign of terror.

So my question is, are the Maormer not considered to be the Sea Elves?

LMar

Yes the Maormer are the Sea Elves or also known as the Tropical Elves but you have to understand the way they came about.

Here is an excerpt from UESP :

It was once believed that the Maormer of Pyandonea were originally exiles from the Summerset Isle. However, translations of tapestries in the Crystal Tower tell the tale of how the Maormer were likely separated in their original homeland of Aldmeris.] According to the legend, the Maormer leader King Orgnum was once a phenomenally wealthy Aldmer nobleman, who used his finances to launch a rebellion against the powers of the land. He and his followers were banished for this to a place separated from Aldmeris by an impenetrable mist, Pyandonea, "The Veil of Mist". This boundary proved so effective that the followers of Orgnum never again disturbed their former countrymen in Aldmeris

SydneyGrey

Eporem wrote: »

@SydneyGrey I like these definitions of the Aldmer and Altmer: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmer

Ah, thanks for that.

Eporem

In my mind I was thinking that the Maormer were exiled when in the Summerset Isles, not when in Aldmeris so thank you Lmar for this excerpt from the tapestries in the Crystal Tower.

So now I wonder of Skin Stealers:)

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skin-Stealers

I wonder how this 'art' came to be known. It seems centuries old as Uldor knew of this and even perhaps King Orgnum, and so I wonder too if perhaps this is how the Maormer appearance came to be - stealing the skins of the 'bestial' tribes of Aldmeris, if they (the Maormer) were at first similar in appearance to the Altmer that reside in the Summerset Isles.

Where would this knowledge of skin stealing have come from. Would the first mer of Aldmeris have been the only ones to have known of this?

The Dominion is known to have practiced it in this time of ESO, though I am not sure if other races have as well.

And there is a tale of a sailor stealing the skin of a seal maid that now explains to me the statue in the Gold Coast.

A beautiful statue of Selkie of West Skerry landmarks the Guildgate district. The legend says that a sailor lover of the seal-maid, stole her skin, hoping for the seal-maid never leaving him back to the sea. However the sailor's wife knew this adultery, and secretly cut the skin in half and put it so that Selkie could find it. When Selkie donned the skin, she found that she neither seal nor maid, but half-seal and half-maid. Ashamed, she fled the land, but the legend has it that she guides lost mariners through the dense fogs of the Gold Coast.

anyways... such such mystery..:) I really hope more lore will be added to ESO of this.

To add:

I came across more lore of the King Orgnum that I did not know about in reading about Queen Potema..it was I think in the 4th book..in the future.. so think not to place it here, though I did find it interesting and made me think that perhaps King Orgnum was spell-charmed somehow by her for how else could he have been so very trusting of her promise to aid especially when he saw the Psijic Order there as well.

LMar

Queen Potema was a shrewd tactician and diplomat and often seduced her guests/friends/enemies.

As for skin stealers, in a world full of magic, anything is possible

nimander99

Men were also considered a "bestial race" at the time. Which would lend more credibility since we know men were present in and around the Heartland, and also on the Elven Isle's.

And they don't have scales or tails... So id say they bred with men. Which explains their disregard for Elven Culture and raiding.

Eporem

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Korah_Eaglecry

Its called propaganda. Its demonizing their enemies by trying to convince the masses that these people are less than human (or mer in this case) which makes it easier to amass supporters.

starkerealm

Eporem wrote: »

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Nirn's elves are highly adaptive. Given a few generations they will (usually) thoroughly adapt to their environment. (We're told) this is why races like the Falmer, Maomer, and Bosmer differ so much from their Aldmeri ancestors.

Eporem

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Nirn's elves are highly adaptive. Given a few generations they will (usually) thoroughly adapt to their environment. (We're told) this is why races like the Falmer, Maomer, and Bosmer differ so much from their Aldmeri ancestors.

Adaptation, yes:) though the Altmer should be included as well for they too were Aldmer wanderers and even perhaps the Orsimer? who were seen by Topal the sailor in his travels?

Would there be any lore on what the Summerset isles were like or who/what were its inhabitants before the Aldmer came to them centuries and centuries ago.

starkerealm

Eporem wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Nirn's elves are highly adaptive. Given a few generations they will (usually) thoroughly adapt to their environment. (We're told) this is why races like the Falmer, Maomer, and Bosmer differ so much from their Aldmeri ancestors.

Adaptation, yes:) though the Altmer should be included as well for they too were Aldmer wanderers and even perhaps the Orsimer? who were seen by Topal the sailor in his travels?

Would there be any lore on what the Summerset isles were like or who/what were its inhabitants before the Aldmer came to them centuries and centuries ago.

I was specifically excluding the Orsimer and Dunmer because both were (supposedly) subjected to curses. Though, it's entirely possible that they naturally adapted, the way elves do, and it was attributed to being cursed. (Yes, I know the transformation of the Dunmer is supposed to have occurred instantaneously when the Tribunal derped around with The Heart.)

My understanding is that the Altmer are taller than the Aldmer were. No idea why, or how that would be an adaptation. Also, no idea what the Dwemer adaptations were, since their distinction from other elves has always been expressed in cultural terms, not physical ones.

nimander99

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Nirn's elves are highly adaptive. Given a few generations they will (usually) thoroughly adapt to their environment. (We're told) this is why races like the Falmer, Maomer, and Bosmer differ so much from their Aldmeri ancestors.

Adaptation, yes:) though the Altmer should be included as well for they too were Aldmer wanderers and even perhaps the Orsimer? who were seen by Topal the sailor in his travels?

Would there be any lore on what the Summerset isles were like or who/what were its inhabitants before the Aldmer came to them centuries and centuries ago.

I was specifically excluding the Orsimer and Dunmer because both were (supposedly) subjected to curses. Though, it's entirely possible that they naturally adapted, the way elves do, and it was attributed to being cursed. (Yes, I know the transformation of the Dunmer is supposed to have occurred instantaneously when the Tribunal derped around with The Heart.)

My understanding is that the Altmer are taller than the Aldmer were. No idea why, or how that would be an adaptation. Also, no idea what the Dwemer adaptations were, since their distinction from other elves has always been expressed in cultural terms, not physical ones.

Yeah @starkerealm is right, I had forgotten about the lore surrounding the Falmer, which explains their ability to adapt to even the most harsh conditions. Also correct about the Orsimer and Dunmer being manipulated by Daedra.

I suppose the only representation of "half-elf" (and I use that term loosely) in game would be Breton's, who intermingled with mer long ago giving them more magical talent than the average human... But they retain human characteristics and lifespans, as far as I'm aware.

starkerealm

nimander99 wrote: »

I suppose the only representation of "half-elf" (and I use that term loosely) in game would be Breton's, who intermingled with mer long ago giving them more magical talent than the average human... But they retain human characteristics and lifespans, as far as I'm aware.

Yeah, Bretons are explicitly the half-elf option. As I recall, in Arena they were specifically defined as Half-Elves, with their formal name being an afterthought. They also have a distinct "mer" name, "Manmer," though I can't remember seeing it used since TES2 or 3.

Nedic tribes that interbred with Aldmer eventually became the Bretons. Given how mixed parents work in TES, that would have meant there was a lot of interbreeding going on over the course of centuries.

The short version is that a group of Aldmer colonized High Rock early in the first era, and then mixed with the native Nedic settlements. Over time the elven traits became more subtle. But, during the Glenumbra time travel quest you can see what the early Bretons looked like during the First Era.

Eporem

I have not found much more lore on the Maormer or how they might have changed other than what is mentioned above. I ended up reading of Y'ffre and how he might have taught the Bosmer how to keep their shapes when all was shapeshiftting in the beginning and this made me wonder how the seas/oceans were formed on Nirn and if they are a 'nature enemy' of the land.

Korah_Eaglecry

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

could be @nimander99 though curious still on how their appearance may have come about

Nirn's elves are highly adaptive. Given a few generations they will (usually) thoroughly adapt to their environment. (We're told) this is why races like the Falmer, Maomer, and Bosmer differ so much from their Aldmeri ancestors.

Adaptation, yes:) though the Altmer should be included as well for they too were Aldmer wanderers and even perhaps the Orsimer? who were seen by Topal the sailor in his travels?

Would there be any lore on what the Summerset isles were like or who/what were its inhabitants before the Aldmer came to them centuries and centuries ago.

I was specifically excluding the Orsimer and Dunmer because both were (supposedly) subjected to curses. Though, it's entirely possible that they naturally adapted, the way elves do, and it was attributed to being cursed. (Yes, I know the transformation of the Dunmer is supposed to have occurred instantaneously when the Tribunal derped around with The Heart.)

My understanding is that the Altmer are taller than the Aldmer were. No idea why, or how that would be an adaptation. Also, no idea what the Dwemer adaptations were, since their distinction from other elves has always been expressed in cultural terms, not physical ones.

My headcanon is that the Orsimer existed as they are prior to Trinimac being eaten by Boethiah. And that Malacath adopted them as his people because his sphere lined up so well with their lifestyles and culture. The backstory of a curse being placed on them as followers of Trinimac being a creation story to explain their difference when the actual change occurred in pre-history, like the Dwemer and Falmer.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Eporem wrote: »

Would there be any lore on what the Summerset isles were like or who/what were its inhabitants before the Aldmer came to them centuries and centuries ago.

This help? As far as inhabitants, we have:
--The Sload
--Welwa
--Gheatus
--Ilyadi

Goblins are also mentioned and those are still present in Auridon in ESO.

Eporem

Yes:) thanks for this link @WhiteCoatSyndrome . When reading through this the intermingling I see that might have changed the early Aldmers appearance to how the Altmer look this day would be with the Giants (becoming taller?) or with the Gheatus, Maybe through Gheatus the Bosmer changed? Would Gheatus be Y’ffre.

Where though would the Ilyadi, the giants, and Gheatus have come from..were they part of the Ehlnofey Wanderers? and part of the Hist world?

On the world of Nirn, all was chaos. The only survivors of the twelve worlds of Creation were the Ehlnofey and the Hist. The Ehlnofey are the ancestors of Mer and Men. The Hist are the trees of Argonia. Nirn originally was all land, interspersed with seas, but no oceans.


And a question from this part,

No longer did the Aldmer worship their own ancestors, but the ancestors of their "betters."

The Aldmer’s own ancestors were the memories, maybe, of the et'Ada? This knowledge of them coming with them to Nirn? Who were the ancestors of their 'betters'.